Another L.E.D. question

[jasonm.]

on my '87 I have the factory light bars. Never turn them on because of the power draw. Is it true...that a red lens should have a red LED, yellow lens have yellow LED, etc. ? What happens if I put in a "white" LED ? Any help is appreciated

[Guest tx2sturgis]

What happens if I put in a "white" LED ?

 

It will catch fire, and possibly detonate, at any speed above 37.5 mph.

 

Or at any speed if the day ends in 'Y'.

 

 

Seriously, if you match the LED to the lens color the perceived amount of light will be much greater.

 

Mis-matching the colors will result in a much dimmer appearance.

 

 

[jasonm.]

now to find the best deal on LEDs... ?

[jasonm.]

what if I use colored LEDs in the instruments back lighting...say RED...the 5 LED 360 degree style. I suppose my intruments would look RED...like old Pontiac automobiles ...?!?

[Flyinfool]

Actually I thought the stock back lighting looked yellow even with the brightness all the way up, With the new 15 LED white towers that I used the dash is very white and that gives it a whole different look that I like.

 

If you go with the 5 LED bulbs, it may be a little dim. I am happy with the brightness of my four 15 LED towers.

 

FYI

If you use colored back lighting, any markings in that color will be nearly invisible.

 

As far as best price, there are some bad LED products out there, I have never been disappointed by SuperBrightLEDs.com, but they are not cheap.

[syscrusher]

Just my .02, if you are not using clear lenses then a clear led with a colored lense will be the brightest. When an led is colored it is because it is filtered and this causes a loss of brightness. When this colored led is put behind a colored lense it is filtered a second time with an additional loss of brightness. Typically colored leds are used with popular clear lenses, a look that debuted about ten years ago.

[Guest tx2sturgis]

Just my .02, if you are not using clear lenses then a clear led with a colored lense will be the brightest. When an led is colored it is because it is filtered and this causes a loss of brightness. When this colored led is put behind a colored lense it is filtered a second time with an additional loss of brightness. Typically colored leds are used with popular clear lenses, a look that debuted about ten years ago.

 

 

There is a mixture of truth and conjecture here. There are no 'filtered' LEDs that I am aware of used in the way we use LEDs in normal automotive applications. The LED color, or spectrum, is created physically with the type of semiconductor material used and the way it is constructed.

 

The very reason that the LEDs consume so little power is because they emit light in the desired color only. They dont start out emitting light that is white, then filtered to red or amber or blue. The red or amber or blue light starts out that way from the LED semiconductor die in the LED frame. White ones, of course, emit the broadest spectrum of a multitude of colors, which blended together, look like a white light. (more or less)

 

If you put a red lens over a white LED, NOW you are filtering out all the other colors and allowing only the red spectrum, a small amount of the total light to be seen. So it will certainly appear dimmer.

 

A red LED will shine brightly thru a red lens as long as the colors match pretty closely. But the same red LED projected thru a clear lens will be even brighter, since there is almost no filtering being added.

 

This is partly why 1157 LED bulbs are almost always not DOT compliant...they just dont put out enough light thru a red or amber lens.

 

But for auxiliary lighting, red LEDs behind red lenses is fine.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 14, 2013 by tx2sturgis

[kevin-vic-b.c.]

this is almost as complicated as some of those oil questions get........

 

 

[Guest tx2sturgis]

this is almost as complicated as some of those oil questions get.

 

Yep. We see this over and over again. LED turn signal conversion problems on the Royal Stars.

 

I wish I had a nickel for every article thats ever been posted about a member having trouble getting them to work right.

 

I also wish I could post a sticky on this forum that says, IF you want LED turn signals, YOU BOUGHT THE WRONG BIKE.

 

But that still wont stop guys from trying. Its doable, but what a pain. Costs money, doesnt look that good to me, and its caused more than a few members to pull some hair out.

 

Fast flashing turn signals, and lack of self canceling, is the normal result, which some guys will tolerate, but then others will add equalizers that bring the current draw right back to where it was before the conversion. Some members have had blown fuses, scorched wiring harnesses, and weird displays on the dash.

 

Some have even added hidden regular incandesent bulbs back into the circuit. Huh?

 

I DO believe in swapping to a nice bright LED brake light is a good thing, since the stock tailight on the 2nd gen is a total P.O.S. And the brake light is a plug-n-play conversion that really does improve safety.

 

But the stock turn signals work great as is from the factory.

 

If it aint broke...dont fix it.

 

Or so it seems to me.

 

(this is my week to gripe..yall bear with me....I missed Sturgis 2013!)

 

 

 

Edited August 13, 2013 by tx2sturgis

[jasonm.]

Wow....TX2 comments really helped me with this. I have had this bike for 20+ years and only turned on the trim lights a handful of times.... I ordered a 20 pack of "5 LED 360" types I mentioned before. They were not expensive and hope they work good on my rear light bars. I expect them by week's end. The site was the same someone ordered from on another thread w/link to Hi-autopia. Not "Superbrite" brand. But I'll let you know. If they do work well...then I will change the Ambers in the front over also.

Edited August 14, 2013 by jasonm.

[syscrusher]

Just commenting on tx2sturgis comments on my comments:

 

"There are no 'filtered' LEDs that I am aware of used in the way we use LEDs in normal automotive applications. The LED color, or spectrum, is created physically with the type of semiconductor material used and the way it is constructed. "

 

True, red and amber LEDs with colored plastic casing are fairly uncommon and ancient now.

"A red LED will shine brightly thru a red lens as long as the colors match pretty closely. But the same red LED projected thru a clear lens will be even brighter, since there is almost no filtering being added."

 

So you address the filtering loss in that application and I agree.

 

 

Edited August 14, 2013 by syscrusher
speeling

[Flyinfool]

Yep. We see this over and over again. LED turn signal conversion problems on the Royal Stars.

 

I wish I had a nickel for every article thats ever been posted about a member having trouble getting them to work right.

 

I also wish I could post a sticky on this forum that says, IF you want LED turn signals, YOU BOUGHT THE WRONG BIKE.

 

But that still wont stop guys from trying. Its doable, but what a pain. Costs money, doesnt look that good to me, and its caused more than a few members to pull some hair out.

I guess the look is a personal preference thing, I love the look.

 

Fast flashing turn signals, and lack of self canceling, is the normal result, which some guys will tolerate, but then others will add equalizers that bring the current draw right back to where it was before the conversion. Some members have had blown fuses, scorched wiring harnesses, and weird displays on the dash.

See my notes below.

 

Some have even added hidden regular incandesent bulbs back into the circuit. Huh?

I agree with HUH?

 

I DO believe in swapping to a nice bright LED brake light is a good thing, since the stock tailight on the 2nd gen is a total P.O.S. And the brake light is a plug-n-play conversion that really does improve safety.

Any increase in lighting helps safety.

 

But the stock turn signals work great as is from the factory.

They are OK but can be better.

 

If it aint broke...dont fix it.

But yet you advocate "fixing" the tail light that aint broke?

 

Or so it seems to me.

 

(this is my week to gripe..yall bear with me....I missed Sturgis 2013!)

I'm still POed that I could not make the IR or WI MD, so I'm still crabby.....

 

 

 

 

Notes

This is where people get confused. Adding the "load equalizers" aka resistors, it is true that it will negate any energy savings, BUT this is only while the turn signal is actually lit. Think about it, how much time is the turn signal bulb actually lit. First it is a 50% duty cycle when the signals are on, The auto cancel turns them off after 15 seconds so that means the bulb is lit for 7.5 seconds MAX for a lane change. So even if you have to stop at a light for a minute, the turn signal bulb is only lit for a little over 30 seconds. That is not much time to worry about the current draw being the same as it was before. You still get the energy savings from the running lights part of the LED ALL of the time. The net result is a big saving of energy.

As far as the blown fuses and scorched wires, that is not because of the LEDs, it is because of improper wiring and would have happened anyhow.

 

 

With all of that said, there are a lot of junk LEDs on the market that are less bright than the incandescent was, there are also LEDs that are a lot brighter than the incandescents and will be a noticeable improvement in visibility. Just like what you noticed with the brake light.

[aharbi]

Amen to the LED turn signals. LED passing lamps, tail/brake light, marker/side lights or even headlight. Agree it's a waste of time/money. I replaced the front with LED moon-something's but left the rear OEM, they blink at the right rate and autocancel.

[Guest tx2sturgis]

Notes

You still get the energy savings from the running lights part of the LED ALL of the time. The net result is a big saving of energy.

As far as the blown fuses and scorched wires, that is not because of the LEDs, it is because of improper wiring and would have happened anyhow.

 

 

LED brake lights and LED running lights, even LED headlights I have no problem with. Yes there IS a measurable improvement. And since the running lights, tail light, and LED headlight are constant on, there IS some savings on current consumed, if that is a goal.

 

But swapping out turn signals because one wants to save current, and THEN adding in the load resistors makes no sense to me.

 

And its the turn signal conversion to LED that cause such a problem with many of the members here. HID headlight conversions also cause issues, but some of those are getting worked out by the makers. Some things are plug-n-play and work well. Others, not so much. Of course I know that LED's themselves dont scorch wiring harnesses, but some members have done damage trying to get things to work, and this seems to me that its a lot of trouble for VERY little gain.

 

If the LED turn signal manufacturers would simply provide a built-in parallel equalizing resistor on the module, that can be switched out of the circuit if not needed, then they WOULD be plug-n-play and I would have no issue at that point.

 

My only gripe is that a lot of problems seem to be the result when non-technical guys try to get serious with this conversion.

 

Of course, the ones who manage to make it all work well, on the first try, we never hear from them at all!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[cabreco]

What happens if I put in a "white" LED ? Any help is appreciated

 

I replaced all my lightbar & dash bulbs with white LEDs, The dash works GREAT.

My rear light bar lights look pink~ish, but they work. Since I replaced over 22 bulbs the white was the most inexpensive approach. EVENTUALLY I will replace them all with colored LED's...EVENTUALLY.

It did reduce my power draw considerably.

[Flyinfool]

LED brake lights and LED running lights, even LED headlights I have no problem with. Yes there IS a measurable improvement. And since the running lights, tail light, and LED headlight are constant on, there IS some savings on current consumed, if that is a goal.

 

But swapping out turn signals because one wants to save current, and THEN adding in the load resistors makes no sense to me.

 

And its the turn signal conversion to LED that cause such a problem with many of the members here. HID headlight conversions also cause issues, but some of those are getting worked out by the makers. Some things are plug-n-play and work well. Others, not so much. Of course I know that LED's themselves dont scorch wiring harnesses, but some members have done damage trying to get things to work, and this seems to me that its a lot of trouble for VERY little gain.

 

If the LED turn signal manufacturers would simply provide a built-in parallel equalizing resistor on the module, that can be switched out of the circuit if not needed, then they WOULD be plug-n-play and I would have no issue at that point.

 

My only gripe is that a lot of problems seem to be the result when non-technical guys try to get serious with this conversion.

 

Of course, the ones who manage to make it all work well, on the first try, we never hear from them at all!

 

 

Initially reduced power draw was the main reason that I went to LED, and the LEDs did that well. I was very pleasantly surprised to also find out that the LEDs I used are brighter than stock incandescents. Since the front turn signals are also running lights, you will get energy savings all of the time there. The rear are just turn signals so there is no energy saving, BUT I did notice that in bright sunlight my rear turn signals were nearly invisible, With the LED they are now very visible. This is a big safety deal to me. I want everyone around me to be sure of my intentions. I now advocate the safety issue first and the power saving second.

 

I agree that there are some people that should not even be allowed to look at a wire, let alone mess with one.

 

ps. Yes mine did work on the first try. But I then messed with it some more to optimize it so I am still getting some energy savings with the turn signals and still have a correct flash rate. I did do a write up on what I did so that others can follow a plan that is known to work.

[jasonm.]

I replaced all my lightbar & dash bulbs with white LEDs, The dash works GREAT.

My rear light bar lights look pink~ish, but they work. Since I replaced over 22 bulbs the white was the most inexpensive approach. EVENTUALLY I will replace them all with colored LED's...EVENTUALLY.

It did reduce my power draw considerably.

Well, I can say the red colored LEDs I purchasd most definately made the red lenses on my factory rear light bars just as bright as the #161 original bulbs . The origianl 161 lamps draw 180mA @14v ea. Other sites were advertised to draw ONLY 40mA @12 volts each for this type( 5 LED). But upon testing, they actually draw double that, CLOSE TO 80mA @14v normal operating voltage. Which is a good reduction in possible draw. But again not the reduction I was expecting. FYI...these cheap LEDs have ONE flaw...the WEDGE base is plastic and NOT glued on and basicaly loose. A trip to the dollar store for super glue, made all LEDs very solid. Another thing I forgot while installing these...they are polarized. So if they don't light up...just turn them 180 in the socket. Now to decide whether to change the yellows on the front ?

Edited August 19, 2013 by jasonm.