Harley Davidson - now I'm convinced

[Freebird]

Well, this has been an interesting thread. One thing I've learned from it is that you have to have pretty thick skin to own a Harley around this place.

 

That's OK though because I happen to have pretty thick skin.

 

Some of what has been said here is very true and some seems to be warmed over comments that have been thrown around for a long time.

 

As for the comments that Harleys are crap and the quality sucks, I think that is far from the truth. The fit and finish of the Harley is excellent. Chrome is very good.

 

No doubt that the engine is pretty much built on old technology. I don't see how they can be berated for that though. One of the biggest arguments that I hear about the RSV and Yamaha is that Yamaha doesn't listen to their customers. The reason that Harley is still building the pushrod air cooled VTwin is because they DO listen to their customers. They have done pretty much all they can to continue providing that engine that their customers want while trying to improve quality, reliability and performance without messing with the general configuration that the customer demands. In some ways, they are more advanced than the RSV. Anti Lock Brembo brakes, fuel injection, security system, 6 speed tranny, hydraulic lifters.....things that many here have criticized Yamaha for not adding. The RSV engine, in my opinion, is certainly more advanced and probably more reliable but again, Harley has kept it as is because they listen to their customers.

 

I also agree with some of the comments about riders of Harelys and the "herd" mentality. There is a lot of that and I won't deny it. It is not everybody though. I love the group here and would rather ride with you folks than anybody I know. I only know a very few people around here who ride Harleys and seldom see them. There are two or three in the local MTA chapter that Ride Harelys but they are certainly not what you folks are calling the typical Harley riders. They do LONG trips every year to various places around the country and that group includes RSV, Goldwing, Voyagers and other bikes. They love to ride and don't care what brand you on on.

 

This is not my first Harley and those of you who know me also know that I have never denied the fact that I like them. I love my RSV also and plan to keep it. What attracts me to the Harely? Many of the things that some of you criticize about them are the things that I like about them. That old school VTwin that shakes like crazy when you are sitting at a red light. I love that. The thump thump sound caused by the angle of the VTwin, the firing sequence, the single pin crank....that is the nostalgic sound and feel that you either love or hate. To me, I like it for the same reason that I am more drawn to old cars than I am the ultra refined new engines of today. Offer me a 1972 Dodge Challenger with the 440 engine, a late 60's or very early 70 396 Chevelle Super Sport over many of the new modern cars and I'll take the old one thank you. They aren't as smooth or refined but they have a character or "soul" that draws me in.

 

The fact is, the RSV is in many ways a more refined bike. Smoother engine, low maintenance, will run many thousands of miles with very few mechanical issues. It is a fantastic bike. I've seen a number of Ventures, first and second gen, with well over a hundred thousand miles with very few problems. I've seen some with over 200,000 miles and at least one with 400,000 miles. I certainly don't see Harleys out there with that kind of miles that haven't had engine work. I have seen some with close to 100,000 miles though with no major work so they are out there.

 

It is my opinion, and my Road Glide may prove me wrong, that many of the problems with Harley engines are caused by owners who try to get more out of them than they are designed to do. Lots of high end engine modifications and etc. that end up getting them to the point of self destruction. Often down by shade tree mechanics that don't really understand the cause and effect of what they are doing. Like I said, my bike may prove me wrong, only time will tell.

 

As for the t-shirts and etc. So what? Buy the cloths or not, doesn't really matter and it is a personal choice. At this point, I have two Harley T-shirts. One was given to me as a gift about 8 - 10 years ago and the other was given to me when I bought my new bike. They are both cool looking shirts and I like them. I will probably buy more from time to time. I also have a Star jacket and a few Yamaha/Star shirts. I would have more if Yamaha was as good at providing such things as Yamaha is. You can call it advertising for them when you wear such things but to me, it's about sharing my passion for riding...whether it be the Venture or the Harley...with people that I meet. I've met some good people when a conversation was started by somebody asking me about my Star jacket or Harley T-Shirt. I'll continue to wear both.

 

The bottom line is, I like motorcycles...I like riding...I like Harely, Yamaha, Honda, BMW, Indian....Yes...even Ural. I like the old technology of the air cooled VTwin and the smooth higher RPM power of the water cooled V4. I enjoy meeting people and making new friends that share the passion of riding...regardless of what they ride. I don't like the attitude of SOME Harley riders. I don't like the attitude of SOME riders of other brands.

 

So that pretty much sums it up for me. The important thing is that you ride what you want and enjoy. For me, that will be the Road Glide sometimes and the RSV sometimes. Either way, I am going to wave if I see you regardless of what you are riding. If you way back, that's cool. If you don't, I'm going to worry about it for about half a second.

[Trader]

Bravo Freebird!

 

Well said!

 

(Still don't like Harley's)

[Wade 2000]

Yes what Freebird said!! If you were going to spend new bike money, right now, today, there is no way Yamaha would be on the top 5 list for a touring bike. Harley, Honda, Victory, Indian, BMW, are all moving ahead with technology that their riders want and need to comply with their personal devises. At the same time Yamaha is exiting the market.

As for the clothing being advertising, I find it more to be a conversation piece. One of my close friends rides a Triumph. When he has a Triumph shirt on people start talking, when I see a Harley, Yamaha, Honda shirt on someone I ask " What do you ride" it's like a " Hello My Name Is" Tag. It just invites one to inquire about your hobby.

As for the loud pipes. Come on..... I love em!! Must be the southern Ohio in me

[XV1100SE]

As Freebird said... this has been an interesting thread. Many interesting comments from people regarding (past) quality of Harley too. How we got from "why do Harley riders have to wear HD clothing when they ride" to issues with engines and everything else I don't know.

 

I agree with pretty much everyone here... doesn't matter what you ride as long as you ride and are satisfied with your machine. My original post was about being a billboard for a company.

 

We are in Cody tonight, and like I said earlier.... every small town seems to have a HD dealer in the U.S.. We went into the one here in Cody to look around and see about getting a trunk rack bag. I was wrong about Harley. They have more than clothing.

 

Clocks, mugs, pants, socks, underwear, shot glasses, bars, bar stools.... and a few pieces of motorcycle accessories. No bikes in the dealer... mostly clothing. Sales person was telling one woman that they had to buy a particular shirt because it was "new" this year.

 

Found a stat that showed that Honda outsells Harley. Yamaha was down the list a bit. Yamaha doesn't compete with Harley in branding, neither does Honda, Suzuki, or Kawasaki.

 

Yamaha has had the chance to do what Honda did and evolve their models. RSV has stood still for 14 years while the Wing has changed with the times. If you ask someone to name a touring bike, most would say "Goldwing". Only Venture riders would say Venture.

 

When I looked at bikes, I chose the Venture mostly because I had a Virago before and never had a problem with it and also because of the way it fit me. I rode the Wing (seating position wasn't right) and the Electra Glide (nice fit but hated the way it shook at a stop). Venture was a bigger brother to the Virago and I felt at home with it. Knew that shaft drive would be low maintenance and that Yamaha was like Toyota in building a vehicle that would run forever.

 

All kidding aside, HD makes a bike for everyone. You want your bike to have a certain look, they have it... plus when you buy one they adjust handle bar position for you (even when you take one for a test ride they move them for you), foot pegs/board are adjustable.... I found that when I took one for a test ride the dealer was great and treated the "customer" very well. No wonder they rank so high on customer satisfaction.

 

AMF quality problems were 40 years ago. Heck.... Toyota sheet metal was a joke 50 years ago.... remember the Hyundai introduction ? Now Hyundai compete in quality with Toyota and Honda.

 

Freebird and any other HD riders on here.... you've got a great looking bike and a bike from a manufacturer that offers you choice in styling. As so many others that went away from the Venture because of Yamaha...you've got a great ride. HD is great at branding and marketing... and makes a great bike. Enjoy the ride.... and hopefully you'll wave to us when we pass the other way on an antique or discontinued Venture.

[Evan]

Well, this has been an interesting thread. One thing I've learned from it is that you have to have pretty thick skin to own a Harley around this place.

 

That's OK though because I happen to have pretty thick skin.

 

Some of what has been said here is very true and some seems to be warmed over comments that have been thrown around for a long time.

 

As for the comments that Harleys are crap and the quality sucks, I think that is far from the truth. The fit and finish of the Harley is excellent. Chrome is very good.

 

No doubt that the engine is pretty much built on old technology. I don't see how they can be berated for that though. One of the biggest arguments that I hear about the RSV and Yamaha is that Yamaha doesn't listen to their customers. The reason that Harley is still building the pushrod air cooled VTwin is because they DO listen to their customers. They have done pretty much all they can to continue providing that engine that their customers want while trying to improve quality, reliability and performance without messing with the general configuration that the customer demands. In some ways, they are more advanced than the RSV. Anti Lock Brembo brakes, fuel injection, security system, 6 speed tranny, hydraulic lifters.....things that many here have criticized Yamaha for not adding. The RSV engine, in my opinion, is certainly more advanced and probably more reliable but again, Harley has kept it as is because they listen to their customers.

 

I also agree with some of the comments about riders of Harelys and the "herd" mentality. There is a lot of that and I won't deny it. It is not everybody though. I love the group here and would rather ride with you folks than anybody I know. I only know a very few people around here who ride Harleys and seldom see them. There are two or three in the local MTA chapter that Ride Harelys but they are certainly not what you folks are calling the typical Harley riders. They do LONG trips every year to various places around the country and that group includes RSV, Goldwing, Voyagers and other bikes. They love to ride and don't care what brand you on on.

 

This is not my first Harley and those of you who know me also know that I have never denied the fact that I like them. I love my RSV also and plan to keep it. What attracts me to the Harely? Many of the things that some of you criticize about them are the things that I like about them. That old school VTwin that shakes like crazy when you are sitting at a red light. I love that. The thump thump sound caused by the angle of the VTwin, the firing sequence, the single pin crank....that is the nostalgic sound and feel that you either love or hate. To me, I like it for the same reason that I am more drawn to old cars than I am the ultra refined new engines of today. Offer me a 1972 Dodge Challenger with the 440 engine, a late 60's or very early 70 396 Chevelle Super Sport over many of the new modern cars and I'll take the old one thank you. They aren't as smooth or refined but they have a character or "soul" that draws me in.

 

The fact is, the RSV is in many ways a more refined bike. Smoother engine, low maintenance, will run many thousands of miles with very few mechanical issues. It is a fantastic bike. I've seen a number of Ventures, first and second gen, with well over a hundred thousand miles with very few problems. I've seen some with over 200,000 miles and at least one with 400,000 miles. I certainly don't see Harleys out there with that kind of miles that haven't had engine work. I have seen some with close to 100,000 miles though with no major work so they are out there.

 

It is my opinion, and my Road Glide may prove me wrong, that many of the problems with Harley engines are caused by owners who try to get more out of them than they are designed to do. Lots of high end engine modifications and etc. that end up getting them to the point of self destruction. Often down by shade tree mechanics that don't really understand the cause and effect of what they are doing. Like I said, my bike may prove me wrong, only time will tell.

 

As for the t-shirts and etc. So what? Buy the cloths or not, doesn't really matter and it is a personal choice. At this point, I have two Harley T-shirts. One was given to me as a gift about 8 - 10 years ago and the other was given to me when I bought my new bike. They are both cool looking shirts and I like them. I will probably buy more from time to time. I also have a Star jacket and a few Yamaha/Star shirts. I would have more if Yamaha was as good at providing such things as Yamaha is. You can call it advertising for them when you wear such things but to me, it's about sharing my passion for riding...whether it be the Venture or the Harley...with people that I meet. I've met some good people when a conversation was started by somebody asking me about my Star jacket or Harley T-Shirt. I'll continue to wear both.

 

The bottom line is, I like motorcycles...I like riding...I like Harely, Yamaha, Honda, BMW, Indian....Yes...even Ural. I like the old technology of the air cooled VTwin and the smooth higher RPM power of the water cooled V4. I enjoy meeting people and making new friends that share the passion of riding...regardless of what they ride. I don't like the attitude of SOME Harley riders. I don't like the attitude of SOME riders of other brands.

 

So that pretty much sums it up for me. The important thing is that you ride what you want and enjoy. For me, that will be the Road Glide sometimes and the RSV sometimes. Either way, I am going to wave if I see you regardless of what you are riding. If you way back, that's cool. If you don't, I'm going to worry about it for about half a second.

 

Very well said Don.

[chabicheka]

I don't know, Don.......................

 

Just try to imagine seeing a Corvette sitting in the private parking spot of the president of Maserati manufacturing plant....

I really think you should put it up for sale. (should have listened to Eileen)

 

 

[Yammer Dan]

I rode a 56 Pan and your brother ain't right in the head!! LOL

 

Originally Posted by Ground-Hugger

Like my brother has said when AMF bought HD they ruined the bike and have never regained what quality they had prior to AMF. And to think of it that's what really turned me off of the HD. The quality went down the toilet and HD has never gotten back to the level of quality they where at before AMF.

I've always said Hardleys are the best looking best sounding bike on the road. On the road, in the ditch, over the hill. Where ever the drop-offs stop bouncing!!

[Eddie]

As Freebird said... this has been an interesting thread. Many interesting comments from people regarding (past) quality of Harley too. How we got from "why do Harley riders have to wear HD clothing when they ride" to issues with engines and everything else I don't know.

 

I agree with pretty much everyone here... doesn't matter what you ride as long as you ride and are satisfied with your machine. My original post was about being a billboard for a company.

 

We are in Cody tonight, and like I said earlier.... every small town seems to have a HD dealer in the U.S.. We went into the one here in Cody to look around and see about getting a trunk rack bag. I was wrong about Harley. They have more than clothing.

 

Clocks, mugs, pants, socks, underwear, shot glasses, bars, bar stools.... and a few pieces of motorcycle accessories. No bikes in the dealer... mostly clothing. Sales person was telling one woman that they had to buy a particular shirt because it was "new" this year.

 

and most have free coffee and a nice air conditioned lounge to relax in

[scooter45]

Last time we looked at a Harley about 3-4 years ago. My wife asked the salesmen what was the differance between Ultra and Venture the salesman pionted to all the clothes.

[hell yea]

in oz most hardly riders have a nasty attitude to other bike rider think there better cooler ect a man gos into a shoe shop he byes a pair of shoes in his size so why is it littel fat gys gota have oversiesd HD with 16 inch apehaners could it have to do with the small natcher of there tackle lol no but really there are plenty of bikes out there for smaller pepol so why not get one that fits its not like there slower our less powerfully if you tack a siez 9 shoe you wouldn't walk around in a seize 13 now would you so why get seats modified just by a bike that fits lol

[Blinker]

I remember the last time i made fun a Harley.....

 

Well, rode from Va to Dallas and on the way back, my buddy wanted to stop at Dallas HD for some T-shirts and he left his key on to his HD Softail and I had to push start him in the HD parking lot....Got a lot of mileage out of that one until in middle of nowhere Arkansas, my shifter bolt vibrated out and I go to downshift and nothing there....bailing wire found on the side of the road got me home...

 

So, when i want to make fun of a Harley, I just practice my right to remain silent.

 

Got to hand it to them, HD has an awesome marketing department... They take a decked out bike, strip it down, hike the price, and sell the parts back as options. And folks dont have a problem with that. Amazing. I won't even mention paying $35.00 for a T-shirt....insane.

[bj66]

Harley does have clothing stores without a doubt. Next time you are in Las Vegas staying at the hotels. Go shopping in their stores. I bet you'll find a HD shop there somewhere. I've been in at least 2 of them when I was there last time. I bought a hat and T-shirt too....I hate to admit it too

 

Deadwood SD has a shop on the old main street. If you want a bike or accessories/service you have to go to Rapid City.

 

Sturgis has a shop as well, but you can get some bike accessories there as well.

 

It makes sense if you are HD. If you promote the brand/lifestyle, those same people vacation. Keep your brand visible wherever your people go, and you will continue to sell merchandise.

 

You want to decorate a man cave, yup they got that covered too. Pool tables, balls, cues. sofas, chairs, its endless.

 

As far as the attitudes go, yes there are some people that are that way. But I would say that it probly isnt as bad as it used to be. People complain that Sturgis isnt what it used to be either. Now its commercialized and not the same wild party as it used ot be. I would agree with that statement, and its because their consumers have changed just as much as the way they promote their own product.

 

I do buy an occaisonal t-shirt etc. But when I do, I try and buy HD brands only where I am not buying a shirt promoting a dealers store on the back. I usually buy on sale items. I purchased a really nice heavy leather coat for more than 50 percent off. So I guess that when it comes to drinking the HD kool-aid, I just sip it......

[djh3]

Sorry if off on date/times. lol Going off memory can be dangerous at may age. but what I do remember abaou the AMF days they were not a reliable bike, mybe that was just the ones I ran across in my travels. I agree that the late 70 thru late 80"s Japanese stereo equip was the thing to have. Man when I went in the service in 78 all the guys that had been overseas thats all they had. Now you cant hardley find a sansui, teac or the likes.

One of my brothers had a BSA (ba$tard wont start again) and swore by it. Thought Japanese4 bikes were junk. Another brother had a 750 one of th first years they came out. Never had a bit of problems. Funny the stories we remember and tales that have been told. As long as your ridin I'm OK with it. Motorcycles are like ice cream, lots of flavors ENJOY.

[bj66]

One other thing about HD. The market that they are targeting now is women. I saw alot of women riding their own bikes at Sturgis. Most of us 40 year olds on up already have our bikes, so now who do you sell to? 40 year old women. Plus I havent seen a woman yet who doesnt love to shop.

 

When you see the sportsters for sale in the classifieds, I wonder how many of them were bought for the wife to ride. Then the wife finds out that she would rather be a passenger than have her own bike. I bet it happens more than a guy thinks.

[Guest tx2sturgis]

Many folks here know about my situation with HD:

 

Been there, done that. I have spent over $60,000 on them. Rode them, enjoyed them, broke them, crashed them, fixed them. Got laid often because I was riding one.

 

Mechanically, they are decent machines except for the little plastic pieces in the Twin-Cam motor which disintegrates and contaminates the oil. Or other things can detonate in the motor...but the point I want to make is this:

 

There is NO other motorcycle on the road today that has the dealer support that HD has. No one comes close.

 

Many times on the road, I could pull into a dealer and they stop what they are doing, workin on the bikes of local riders, to get me going again.

 

This rarely happens on the Venture. Aside from the fact its pretty reliable, but many of the Yamaha dealers have told me I have to bring it today, and it might be ready next Tuesday. I remember ZipCode Dave waiting MONTHS for his Royal Star bike to be fixed.

 

WHAT THE ****!!!

 

I tell the guy I'm on the road, I need it in two hours, please change the oil, the back tire, the brake pads, whatever.

 

Next Tuesday, my ass.

 

If HD can ever get the issues resolved with the Twinky motor, I will probably ride one again. They have the dealers that have your back.

 

Till then, I will put up with shoddy dealers and ride 'other' brands.

 

Currently riding the Venture, and probably will for a long time, but the new Indian and the new Honda F6B are softly calling me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 12, 2013 by tx2sturgis

[eazyduzzit]

When I was riding the Royal Star, the Harley riders at work wouldn't park near me or talk about bikes much. That didn't bother me at all, I would just grin and put down Harleys. The day I bought the Ultra they all gathered round and talked about Harley torque and how bad ass they were. I said "yeah it's nice, but man it will fry your thighs in traffic and I miss the power of the V-4". You'd have thought I spit in their face. The power isn't that much different, it just kicks in at different RPMs, I just like messing with people and their religions, and believe me it's a religion with some of them.

[Snarley Bill]

my take on Harleys. with out a doubt Harley quality is as fine as you can get. the chrome , paint and overall appearance is unbeatable. the only thing I have against a Harley is from an engineering stand point. being a machinist, I am in to the latest design and engineering techniques. I love the antiquated design of the Harley engine, but by todays standards it is very dated. the two things I really don't like is the non unit construction and the roller bearing lower end. Harley should have changed this years ago. roller bearings were great in there day,

and still are in certain circumstances. an everyday high mileage bike engine is not one of them. plain bearings will out last them many times over. this is one of the reasons Harley engines won't hold up to the Japanese motors for longevity and a rebuild. the built up crank is another archaic expensive item. I have nothing against the pushrods, air cooling, and two valves per cylinder. just the lower end. I have a stratoliner which is an archaic design with up dated technology. there are folks who have over 150,000 miles on them with the original factory motor. I, like don, love the lowend torque, engine throb, the deep rumble, etc. I would have a Harley if they would do some minor engine and tranny upgrades, and I could afford one. they aren't expensive because there over priced. it's because of the fantastic quality and finish and the high cost of usa labor. you get what you pay for. my strat is very high quality but sitting next to a Harley there is a notable difference. as far as the clown suits go I see that on all brands. it's just more noticeable on a Harley cuz there are so many of them out there. I call them wannabes and weekend warriors. if Harley water cooled their bikes and changed them to a different look it would destroy sales. it would just be another bike. I love my strat and like it better than any bike I've ever owned. for the kind of riding I do it does everything. like Harleys it can be cantankerass. unlike most jap bikes, it often pulls some off the wall crap on me, I often times think i'm on a Harley. I have had 4 Harleys in the old days and even though they were a lot of work, they were badass neat bikes. I guess to sum it up, I just don't trust Harleys over the long haul, like I would a wing or venture. that's just me.

[djh3]

Brian, if you think the service on the Yanaha was far and few between the Indian is going to be more so. That is some of the concern with fellows I have talked to about a Victory is the dealer network. If I understand what I read months back the Indian is not going to be sold in every Victory/polaris dealer either. Kind of an "exclusive" brand so to speak. So instead of say 4 dealers for the bikes in the Tampa bay area (there are like 5 Victory dealers) there wil be one possibly 2 one north and one on south end.

I'm almost scared to take mine to a dealer. The closest one is 30 miles or so and the times I have been in there I have never ever seen a RSV. So I would be afraid they wouldnt know anymore about it than I do. Next closest dealer and probably the one I would take for warrenty or needed repairs is 45 min at least. If parts dont fall of every tank of fuel you dont need a dealer to buy new ones eh?

[Guest tx2sturgis]

Brian, if you think the service on the Yanaha was far and few between the Indian is going to be more so.

 

Yep...if you ride a new Indian you will be on the 'bleeding edge'...its not like my Ural...I can work on that thing with pliers and a screwdriver in my own driveway. Well, I might need a 17mm socket also.

I'm almost scared to take mine to a dealer. The closest one is 30 miles or so and the times I have been in there I have never ever seen a RSV.

Yeah a shoddy dealer is worse than no dealer at all.

 

I took mine into a Honda/Yamaha dealer back when the factory rear shock was going bad. I parked outside and walked in and told the service manager I needed him to come look at the rear shock on my Venture and verify its bad. He asked, 'which side, left or right?'

 

I said, 'Its a monoshock, there is only one' as politely as I could.

 

Idiots.

 

 

[GeorgeS]

What I have always wanted to know is why are there so many Harleys for sale all the time on craigslist, eBay, peoples yards, want ads on and on I do not see so many Ventures and there were a lot made in the day I have always wanted to ride a Harley one day to see what it's all about . just never had the itch to purchase one as I don't like to looks of them. and I guess some don't like the looks of the Venture as well.

 

I read somplace there is a guy in Los Angeles has a warehouse with about 300 used Harley's for sale that he has been buying up cheap, and makeing money re-selling them. But not sure if this is true, need to check into this