Harley Davidson - now I'm convinced

[XV1100SE]

No... I'm not trading in my RSV. I wouldn't dare after how far we've gotten on our trip from Ontario to Saskatchewan (thru Michigan, Illinois, Indiana, Missouri, Ohio, Iowa, Nebraska, South Dakota, and now in Wyoming) with no loss of oil or coolant despite a mix of Interstate and gravel roads. Bike is dirty (didn't cover it tonight so the rain can wash it) but 100%.

 

Okay... so what I'm convinced about is this. From what we've seen of Harley riders in any State is that it seems to be a requirement for them to wear some form of Harley clothing. We've seen the obvious dealer t-shirts (other than maintenance, why do they HAVE to have a shirt from any dealer they come across ???), hats, bandanas, pants, boots, gloves... probably socks and underwear too.

 

I'm convinced that Harley Davidson is a clothing company that sells bikes. This isn't a joke. This is an accurate statement.

 

I know they don't sell trucks but Harley riders even have to have trucks with Harley labels all over it.

 

I don't like to advertise for anyone. If Harley wants me to wear their shirts they can pay me to do it.... and even then I wouldn't.

 

On a side note... during our travels I'd say that 80% of bikes on trailers or loaded in the back of a truck is a Harley. Are they broken down? Are they afraid to ride them any distance? Do they want to keep mileage down to avoid/delay expensive repairs? Again... 80% is accurate, if not on the low side.

[XV1100SE]

Oh... and WHY do HD's HAVE to have loud pipes??? And why do they keep revving the engine? Is it to know the engine hasn't self imploded? Is it to keep the engine running? Is it to be totally obnoxious ????

 

Having loud pipes doesn't stop someone from turning left in front of you.

[paysaw]

Hi Don

I am glad your ride is going good.I happened to be in Espanola Ontario last week and overheard a conversation of Harley riders while eating dinner at my hotel.They had these big beautiful bikes parked in the front.They were discussing the next days road trip.I overheard one say that 4 hours was about all he could take in a stretch.Then time to shut it down for awhile.It put a grin my face.

But I must admit they had some nice leather.Have a great ride and get home safe.:080402gudl_prv:

[cowpuc]

While I do totally agree with you I gotta say, HD really does have nice stuff.. Not that I can afford most of it (or would buy it even if I could), I simply dont have the need for bling) but the hd stuff that I have owned for certain purposes it does tend to be quality stuff.. But yea, its amazing what some folks will spend to belong to adhere to certain lifestyles... Now stickers, I like stickers, as my bike earns em it gets em :rotf:I do like my bikes as quiet as possible too but hey,,, I was young once,, nowadays I either ride on the left side of the loudens or stay back so I have some hearing left for tomorrow.. We camped about 4 miles out of Sturgis on the prairie this year and sat in listened to the drone most of the night while gazing at the stars,,,, thunder road has a whole new meaning after years of that!!!

Twenty dollar tent, 70 bucks for sleeping bags, sun screen for the wife and an open highway,, retirement is a great thing!!

Puc

[MiCarl]

I'm convinced that Harley Davidson is a clothing company that sells bikes. This isn't a joke. This is an accurate statement.

 

You're closer to the truth than you know.

 

I was a contract employee at Ford in the early 90s. They had televisions in the hallways where people would congregate (outside the cafeteria for example) that they ran propaganda on. They were on a big turn around kick and had a segment of the Harley CEO.

 

He was explaining that a minority of the people that enter the dealership can afford a Harley motorcycle, but that they could all afford a hat or t-shirt. His point was that Harley Davidson was in the business of selling a lifestyle, and if all the customer could afford was the t-shirt he was glad to have their money.

 

This was about the same time Ford licensed the Harley Davidson name to put on the F-150.

 

Harley Davidson is a branding company that happens to make motorcycles.

[Barrycuda]

I have found, through no scientific research to back me up is that the majority of long distance riders, do not use HD to do so. The American Public and worldwide have been brainwashed into thinking HD is the American dream bike. I do like the looks and allure of them, especially the ultra classic. However, HD is not current with the evolution of their motors. They seems to want you to pay pay pay for chrome, accessories and anything else the machine has in store for the HD faithful. Buckshot and his group have and ride HD with no issues however more often than not, they breakdown. During bike week in Daytona, Atlantic avenue/ A1A is loaded with trucks and trailers to load and unload HD. Sad to say, but people want to be part of a group, good bad or indifferent...

Edited August 10, 2013 by Barrycuda

[Squidley]

Let me play devil advocate here....

 

Many of the things you say are mostly true about HD. It's a perception that many of the folks that own them want others to feel about them, but not everyone who owns a Harley is brainwashed.

 

We sit here on our Yamaha forum and talk a lot of smack about HD, but in reality, Yamaha could care less what we want on our bikes and have no intention of trying to give it to us. The folks at Harley Davidson listen to their customers, this is why the stereo's on their bikes sound like a rolling concert hall. They have more than adequate charging systems so folks can run their doo dads. This is why they offer so much chrome crap that your head will spin off. If you keep a Harley pretty much stock and dont screw around with the guts of it trying to make it some balls out racer, it will last just fine. I know many guys that have them and dont have issues.

 

Yamaha has missed the boat, and the folks that have left for other manufacturers aren't coming back. $20K for a 2013 Venture!? a few thou more and you could be in a new Goldwing or a Harley. The Venture is a great bike, that is way past it's prime, it NEVER changed to any great degree in the 14 year run of the RSV. Will I still own one, you bet, for the money a used one is a great deal, would I pay $20K for a new one, not in a million years. If they redesign it, I want the same cruiser styling as the RSV. If they totally change the design and cramp my legs again, forget it.

 

To me it's always been about getting in the wind on 2 wheels. I could care less what 2 wheels it's on, I have owned most the bike brands out there, they all have issues at some point. There are many of us that had parents and grandparents that owned Harleys. We were sitting on them when we were 2, I think a lot of it is nostalgia and thats not a bad thing. Harley has got a lot of it right, and they are trying new things to bring others over....

[Barrycuda]

Let me play devil advocate here....

 

Many of the things you say are mostly true about HD. It's a perception that many of the folks that own them want others to feel about them, but not everyone who owns a Harley is brainwashed.

 

We sit here on our Yamaha forum and talk a lot of smack about HD, but in reality, Yamaha could care less what we want on our bikes and have no intention of trying to give it to us. The folks at Harley Davidson listen to their customers, this is why the stereo's on their bikes sound like a rolling concert hall. They have more than adequate charging systems so folks can run their doo dads. This is why they offer so much chrome crap that your head will spin off. If you keep a Harley pretty much stock and dont screw around with the guts of it trying to make it some balls out racer, it will last just fine. I know many guys that have them and dont have issues.

 

Yamaha has missed the boat, and the folks that have left for other manufacturers aren't coming back. $20K for a 2013 Venture!? a few thou more and you could be in a new Goldwing or a Harley. The Venture is a great bike, that is way past it's prime, it NEVER changed to any great degree in the 14 year run of the RSV. Will I still own one, you bet, for the money a used one is a great deal, would I pay $20K for a new one, not in a million years. If they redesign it, I want the same cruiser styling as the RSV. If they totally change the design and cramp my legs again, forget it.

 

To me it's always been about getting in the wind on 2 wheels. I could care less what 2 wheels it's on, I have owned most the bike brands out there, they all have issues at some point. There are many of us that had parents and grandparents that owned Harleys. We were sitting on them when we were 2, I think a lot of it is nostalgia and thats not a bad thing. Harley has got a lot of it right, and they are trying new things to bring others over....

 

Brad,

You make valuable and accurate points and I am not knocking HD per se, but lets face it, the glamour, the rolling concert is nice, but if they have a history of repairs, over heating and breakdowns, then the surface stuff isn't going to help much. Like previously stated, I like certain HD models. A few short weeks am I was ready to buy a GW. Venture riders have their opinion like any other brand of riders. I do not wave the VR flag. My complaint is that HD wants us to believe its American made, when many of its components are not. They still over heat and have engine issues which isn't good for many of this forums riding style, which is usually long distances in many weather changes. If they become more reliable, water cooled, then yes, I may lean that way. I agree, yamaha has missed the boat and the venture is not on the short list of bikes or projects yamaha really cares about. A cassette deck in 1999, let alone in 2013?!?!!

For me, I want a reliable bike, that has what I want. HD fits the bill on some of my checklist except engine reliability, and overheating. That and the stigma SOME, not all HD riders have of, if its not harley, then it's crap. That said. If they do a few things more, they probably will convert more non HD riders. But the accessories and hats and boots do not make the rider. It's just rolling advertising. You can be a great guy and ride an HD or an a- hole and ride an Aprilla, GW, BMW, etc.. It's the PERSON. If I did ever own a HD in the future, I would still wave, stop to help others. I do not think I would subscribe to the merchandise however. That's just me.

Edited August 10, 2013 by Barrycuda

[PhilH]

My friend on the other forum can attest that HD gets more revenue from clothing than motorcycle. His own words "HD sells motorcycles so they can sell clothings, not the other way around".

 

I don't have the numbers or the source for that fact, but I'll find out.

[djh3]

I pick on the HD folks cause itss fun. Sort of like pokin a stick in a bee hive. Seriously though I can remember when HD had some seriously troubled bikes and thats only going back to the late 60 mid 70 range. Oil leaks engine problems at 20-30k etc. Then they decided to sell out to the bowling ball company, geez then the stuff was made in Japan when that wasnt a good place to manufacture druable goods.

Fast forward to say the 90's,EVO motor and upgraded suspensions made them a viable bike. I have a friend of mine who bought a new 06 sporty in 07. He put some good travel miles on it with me and my 900 Vulcan, never had any trouble. A year or so ago he bought a used 05 Heritage Softail. The PO spent a bunch of coin on bling. Lynn like me aint into the farkles. Looks nice but dont make it ride any better. He has put a bunch of miles on that bike this year with out a glitch. I think for the most part they are a trouble free scoot. But I like my RSV too. It does everything I want except get better mpg. Why my buddy gets almost 50 mpg out of the HD and I struggle to get 38-40 on the same leg of a trip is beyond me. The merchandise is a big part of the Harley mystic. SOme people got to have it. Me I'm like previously mentiond I'm not paying to advertise for a multimillion dollar company. They do have some good gear but you can buy as good of gear fro less without the trade marking.

If I was to change rides I would probably go with the other american motorcycle a Victory.

[IronMike]

Well It also bugs me they say its American made, but when you get to looking a lot of it is made in China, Japan, and so on, There is a list on the net somewhere. If they are so bent on Made in USE buy a Victory. (And who knows how long that will last in the shuffle)

 

I went on a trip with an HD guy and yes we did stop at every open HD store. I never stopped at a Yamaha store.

 

But what bugs me most is the crazy Bar Hop thing they do, 3 drinks and ride to another bar and have 3 more, and do this all say.

 

I went to Bike Week in Ohio, Sandusky. I paid for a room and we went up, after two hours of the throttle thing, full bore light to light almost got hit by drunk HD riders several times. I did a U turn and went back home, all I had to eat was the room!

 

The great majority are not real riders, yet people who have the money to buy one and ride.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0PBQBbtmAI]Leroy Gets A New Harley - YouTube[/ame]

 

Ok so thats the 90% of them, then we have the 10% that can work on em, ride, and don't endanger and piss off the general public. Yay!

 

The AMA is desperately addressing the loud pipe thing.

 

You are right about the clothing company for sure!

[XV1100SE]

This wasn't to trash HD. My brother owns an AMF Sportster 1000 and he had problems with the fly wheel or something. If it didn't start on the first kick you wouldn't get it started. But its a nice looking bike and he still rides it.

 

My comment was directed at how many HD riders have to have the clothing. I have two Pioneer Motorsports shirts and nothing else that says Yamaha on it. I don't need it to ride and don't feel the need.

 

My feeling on clothing is similar to the exhaust. Keep it subtle and let the bike do the talking.

 

Yamaha missed out on the Venture. Lack of advertising, promotions, support. Great bike but needed something to keep it "current". Not saying that they needed to go to FI but doing so would have made it more appealing to the masses, as would anti-lock brakes.

 

I wave to all riders, even scooters. Doesn't matter what you ride, as long as you ride. By why be a rolling billboard ?

[Cougar]

What I have always wanted to know is why are there so many Harleys for sale all the time on craigslist, eBay, peoples yards, want ads on and on I do not see so many Ventures and there were a lot made in the day I have always wanted to ride a Harley one day to see what it's all about . just never had the itch to purchase one as I don't like to looks of them. and I guess some don't like the looks of the Venture as well.

[gordo]

While I do totally agree with you I gotta say, HD really does have nice stuff.. Not that I can afford most of it (or would buy it even if I could), I simply dont have the need for bling) but the hd stuff that I have owned for certain purposes it does tend to be quality stuff.. But yea, its amazing what some folks will spend to belong to adhere to certain lifestyles... Now stickers, I like stickers, as my bike earns em it gets em :rotf:I do like my bikes as quiet as possible too but hey,,, I was young once,, nowadays I either ride on the left side of the loudens or stay back so I have some hearing left for tomorrow.. We camped about 4 miles out of Sturgis on the prairie this year and sat in listened to the drone most of the night while gazing at the stars,,,, thunder road has a whole new meaning after years of that!!!

Twenty dollar tent, 70 bucks for sleeping bags, sun screen for the wife and an open highway,, retirement is a great thing!!

Puc

Like they say "chrome won't get you home but you sure look good pushing it".

[IronMike]

Well I actually like the looks of them. Not the technology. or the price at repair time, or the price of a T shirt. And while we are asking questions, Is it a requirement you have to by a FORD pickup and put not one but TWO HD decals on the rear window? I mean can't it be like maybe HD on one side and the Bunny Ranch on the other, or something like that. OK a Budweiser Decal. Can't figure out the two thing.

[Squidley]

Trust me fellas, my statements weren't to stir the pot. HD has flaws, by nature their bikes run hot, but so do other brands air cooled twins. The marketing of HD is genius, just about everyone has $20 to spend on a hat or T shirt. The majority of your statements are correct, folks want to be considered a bad a$$ because they have a HD, or are a poser and wear all the crap. I dont fall for the image of HD, my image is whatever shirt fits and isn't dirty is what I'm wearing. If it's pink teletubbies and I'm secure enough wearing it, thats what I'm wearing

 

I guess for me, that I wish Yamaha was as proactive with the bikes we love as HD is with their bikes. A few years back, it was always going to be a Venture for me, thats not the case now and if I had the money to play with, I wouldn't buy a new Yamaha for fear of the same thing they have/haven't done with the Venture.

 

We are very loyal to these bikes as many of us have had tens of thousands trouble free miles out of them. I have well over 100K with all the Ventures I have owned with minimal issues. I have never been stranded where I couldn't McGuiver something together to get me back home. Like I say, not poking at the "Bee's nest" but the folks that own the HD's are pretty loyal as well to their brand. It's what we choose to ride, until something better comes along, Yamaha hasn't offered anything better in a long time unfortunately. I wont stir the pot with this one anymore

[djh3]

I dont get the 3 blocks 2 beers repeat thing either. I have to be way to alert to DA trying to run me over to cloud my thinking. But part of that is the group your riding with. Loud pipes thing I dont get either. If the noise comes out the back, how does it "warn" people a intersection away your comming unless its bouncing off buildings? IDK skip that part. Shoot I got RK muffs on my RSV and my buddy on his Heritage dont like to ride behind me because he says its loud. :rotf:Really I dont care what your riding as long as your curtious to others and treat folks right. Dont ruin it for the rest of us by being an a$$ to nonriders. Its fun to poke fun at eachother ocasionaly, keeps ya on your toes.

As to why so many HD are for sale on CL, look at sport bikes for sale sometime. I think maybe the same thing applies. A fellow decides he is going to get a bike. Has never rode before, younger ones say 18-25 got the sport bike, ones that can afford them and are say 40+ goe the Hd route. Partially because of the marketing and probably piers. They get the bike and find out, folks dont pay attention to where in the heck they are going as much as whos texting them, it's cold in the winter, hot in summer and I'll be danged if it rains you get wet. So they figure out it aint for them. A boat would be like that for me.

[Huggy]

My brothers a HD guy he owns a Road King and a 1950 EL. He admits that HD are crap but then its a life style all his buddies ride them. But then my brother USED to ride with one of the Hells Angels affiliate clubs in Ontario. He got out when it was declared an illegal organization. So he had to ride a Harley. But back to HD my brothers mechanic says the mechanically the HD is a piece of crap. And HD is marketing a life style not selling a motorcycle.

There are so many HD for sale because HD is targeting the Yuppie crowd. And they buy them and then they have all kinds of trouble with them and put them up for sale after about two years or so. I know a guy who drives a tow truck locally and every Friday the 13th in Port Dover all his calls are to pick up broken down Harleys. He has never picked up a rice burner. That's not to say they don't break down! HD is a wannabie life style, a dream of being a 1%. I'm cool I ride a HD like the Hells Angels! And that's what HD is marketing the bad boy image of owning a HD! I ride because I like motorcycles! And I'll ride what ever I can afford, which happens to be Yamaha's. Beside they just look good!

 

[Barrycuda]

My brothers a HD guy he owns a Road King and a 1950 EL. He admits that HD are crap but then its a life style all his buddies ride them. But then my brother USED to ride with one of the Hells Angels affiliate clubs in Ontario. He got out when it was declared an illegal organization. So he had to ride a Harley. But back to HD my brothers mechanic says the mechanically the HD is a piece of crap. And HD is marketing a life style not selling a motorcycle.

There are so many HD for sale because HD is targeting the Yuppie crowd. And they buy them and then they have all kinds of trouble with them and put them up for sale after about two years or so. I know a guy who drives a tow truck locally and every Friday the 13th in Port Dover all his calls are to pick up broken down Harleys. He has never picked up a rice burner. That's not to say they don't break down! HD is a wannabie life style, a dream of being a 1%. I'm cool I ride a HD like the Hells Angels! And that's what HD is marketing the bad boy image of owning a HD! I ride because I like motorcycles! And I'll ride what ever I can afford, which happens to be Yamaha's. Beside they just look good!

 

Well said ground hugger and Squidley, and the rest. HD has the marketing to a science. Yamaha can learn something IF....they chose to. With the ventures, we are he step brother, the forgotten one who we remember at family gatherings, only to forget us again the next day.

HD= majestic marketing , but also = not so comfortable and long lasting bikes. Many HD riders who sell, either have health issues from riding HD, as well as them starting to realize its not fun to be broken down, or spend $$$$$$ on repairs and maintenance so soon after the previous encounter. If I knew I would get an honest answer, I would ask them why are they parting w the bikes. Be interesting to hear. The yamaha dealership in brooksville has a brand new 2013 ultra glide which has 2000 miles, it has been at the dealer for over 6 weeks now, no one is biting. Idk why its there, but as of Thursday, it was still there. And...it's a gorgeous bike.

[MidlifeVenture]

My friend just spent $40,000 on a new HD and it is a beautiful bike. I have a problem spending that on a car that has a ton more in it but I am happy for him. There are times I am jealous of the things they can buy for there bikes and wish there were things out there to buy to show our love of this bike but I chose this bike because I loved the look and it had a little more room both me and my wife take up space.Also when I rode my friends HD my hands and feet itched after just a 20 mile ride at the time I purchased my RSMV cost 13 and the comparable HD was at 25 which help on the decision. I do wear HD shirts because some are neat and I do have HD pipes on my bike so it is a step child I guess. I still ride with my friend I still wear my helmet when none of there group does and also only drink soda while they pound beer and race off I keep my GPS loaded and will catch up at the next destination or when I find them on the side of the road wrecked or broken down. I would not mind owning a HD for the stuff but I still would not fit in with most of the riders in my area.

[djh3]

The 2 things I notice on Craigs List for the HD for sale. Other than sportsters the Streets Glides, Ultras and heritage softails etc it seems guys are trying to finance thier grand kids college. Low miles most compaired to other touring bikes of same age. Like I said I think they are yuppies, they ride on a weekend IF the weather is nice. Thier buddies have drank the cool-aid and they follow along like cows. Then a couple years down the road it passes like gas. The "holds higher resale" crap is a figment of thier imagination. Its higher priced to start, and eventually some other weekender happins along and buys it. CL around here you can get a 1200 sporty about 3-5yr old for under $5000. But the FL bikes Street Glide etc are almost allways over 11K closer to 13-14.

[Huggy]

Ya the price for a HD is steep and you are NOT paying for QUALITY again you are buy into a life style. Like my brother has said when AMF bought HD they ruined the bike and have never regained what quality they had prior to AMF. And to think of it that's what really turned me off of the HD. The quality went down the toilet and HD has never gotten back to the level of quality they where at before AMF.

 

[Ky. Rider]

The reasons I would not own a Harley are:

 

1. Over priced when quality is compared.

 

2. I like being a little different.

 

3. The "Harley attitude" turns me off.

 

I was asked once why I didn't support this country and ride a Harley. My reply was, "have you ever heard of the ASHAU VALLEY? I put 11 months in that hell hole so I have enough self confidence to ride any bike I prefer and I prefer my Venture, which by the way, I bought locally." I fly the U.S. flag proudly 24/7!

[djh3]

If you talk to any of the HD guys that have been around the brand for a long time they will tell you the AMF years are like the plauge. I have heard there are now wiring harness available to update those bikes. The electrics were a big problem on them years.

Licensing of the Harley-Davidson brand and logo accounted for $40 million (0.8%) of the company's net revenue in 2010

wikipedia

I remember something about "American Motorcycle company Fatality" or something

[cowpuc]

I have owned a dozen or more HD's thoughout the years and actually always loved the bikes, even my old 59 XLCH that I built with its 10 over Grass Hopper forks and its, stock from HD - knee braking kicker (if you didnt know how to start it) and finicky magneto!! I just sold my 03 88inch twincam with a blower on it to help pay bills..

Alot, if not most, people really misunderstand HD - or think like I do.. I am a gearhead at heart, I LOVE the simpleness of the HD motor.. While yes, the marketing genuises at HD have taken advantage of capitalizing on the human need for a sense of belonging BUT they have also capitalized on the gearhead market AND created a market so huge that it supports many aftermarket organizations - lots and lots of jobs!!

HD (and these aftermarket folks) give folks who have my charector flaw (gear headedness) the chance to fool around with things like valve overlap and timing, high compression pistons, tuned exhausts, Tuneable EFI (I still prefer carbs) mapping and on and on.. It may not sound interesting to most people but for some of us it is a heart thing and because of the simpleness of the Air Cooled push-rod V-twin motor it is all do able in an old school garage setting!! Not cheap BUT it is all available because HD does listen to the riders (wish other manufactures would listen as well).

Another point is where HD has taken that old, total loss V-twin,, it amazes me.. This new Twin Cam motor with modular tranny, is pretty cool..

So, why have I also stuck with the Venture all these years? Because I have another flaw, I also LOVE to put the tools down and, like Crockadile Dundee and his walkabout, ride thousands of miles at a time and pretty much know I am gonna come home on the same bike I left on,, with a minimal amount of tools in tow.. And, even if it breaks down, and I cant fix it I can give it away, buy another one cheaper than a HD Front Wheel and continue on (never had to - knock on wood)!! AND - I truthfully have never ridden a bike that fits my body like the Gen 1, I can sit in the saddle hour after hour and watch the stress just evaporate as the world just goes by....

Puc