Firearm shipping help anyone???

[star4772]

Does anyone one know of a legal way to ship a handgun without using an FFL to FFL. Sending from Michigan to Benson AZ.

 

Anyone know how to do this in a legal manner?

 

Joe

[MikeWa]

Ship it to yourself.

This is what I got when I googled the question.

 

You MAY legally ship a firearm to YOURSELF in the US. Rifles and shotguns (unloaded) may be sent through the US Mail. Handguns must be shipped by a common carrier, such as UPS or FedEx unless you are licensed as a firearms dealer or manufacturer (they can use US mail). If you are transferring OWNERSHIP of a firearm across a state line, THEN a Federal Firearms License holder is required. Shipment outside of the US is another legal matter entirely. you MUST declare a firearm to the shipper, whether Post Office or Common Carrier. NOTE- writer is a FFL holder.

 

Mike

Edited August 7, 2013 by MikeWa

[star4772]

Ship it to yourself.

 

Mike

 

I understand what your saying but they always ask at post office or ups if any firearms. Doing it that way is it legal?

[dacheedah]

you can only ship it to yourself and only you can open it, do not cut corners here. A FFL can ship it for a small fee and shipping cost and still be less expensive and less hassle than shipping without.

 

https://www.ups.com/content/us/en/resources/ship/packaging/guidelines/firearms.html?srch_pos=1&srch_phr=firearms

 

USPS

Firearms – Only licensed manufacturers and dealers can mail or receive handguns. And even though unloaded rifles and shotguns are mailable, mailers must comply with all applicable regulations.

 

FedEx Express will transport and deliver firearms as defined by the United States Gun Control Act of 1968, between areas served in the U.S., but only between:

Licensed importers; licensed manufacturers; licensed dealers; licensed collectors; law enforcement agencies of the U.S. or any department or agency thereof; and law enforcement agencies of any state or any department, agency or political subdivisions thereof; or

Where not prohibited by local, state and federal law, from individuals to licensed importers, licensed manufacturers or licensed dealers (and return of same).

If your shipment contains firearms, select the Direct Signature Required or Adult Signature Required Delivery Signature Option, depending on the requirements of your shipment. See the Delivery Signature Options section for details. Firearms shipments are not eligible for signature release or indirect delivery.

Firearms must be shipped via FedEx Priority Overnight service. FedEx Express cannot ship or deliver firearms C.O.D. Firearms shipments cannot be placed in a FedEx Express Drop Box.

Upon presenting the package for shipment, the person tendering the shipment to FedEx Express is required to notify FedEx Express that the package contains a firearm. The outside of the package must not be marked, labeled or otherwise identify that the package contains a firearm.

The shipper and recipient must be of legal age as identified by applicable law.

The shipper and recipient are required to comply with all applicable government regulations and laws, including those pertaining to labeling. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives can provide assistance.

FedEx Express will transport ammunition when packed and labeled in compliance with local, state and federal law, and the Dangerous Goods section of this Service Guide. Ammunition is an explosive and must be shipped separately as dangerous goods. You agree not to ship loaded firearms or firearms with ammunition in the same package.

[star4772]

you can only ship it to yourself and only you can open it, do not cut corners here. A FFL can ship it for a small fee and shipping cost and still be less expensive and less hassle than shipping without.

 

https://www.ups.com/content/us/en/resources/ship/packaging/guidelines/firearms.html?srch_pos=1&srch_phr=firearms

 

USPS

Firearms – Only licensed manufacturers and dealers can mail or receive handguns. And even though unloaded rifles and shotguns are mailable, mailers must comply with all applicable regulations.

 

FedEx Express will transport and deliver firearms as defined by the United States Gun Control Act of 1968, between areas served in the U.S., but only between:

Licensed importers; licensed manufacturers; licensed dealers; licensed collectors; law enforcement agencies of the U.S. or any department or agency thereof; and law enforcement agencies of any state or any department, agency or political subdivisions thereof; or

Where not prohibited by local, state and federal law, from individuals to licensed importers, licensed manufacturers or licensed dealers (and return of same).

If your shipment contains firearms, select the Direct Signature Required or Adult Signature Required Delivery Signature Option, depending on the requirements of your shipment. See the Delivery Signature Options section for details. Firearms shipments are not eligible for signature release or indirect delivery.

Firearms must be shipped via FedEx Priority Overnight service. FedEx Express cannot ship or deliver firearms C.O.D. Firearms shipments cannot be placed in a FedEx Express Drop Box.

Upon presenting the package for shipment, the person tendering the shipment to FedEx Express is required to notify FedEx Express that the package contains a firearm. The outside of the package must not be marked, labeled or otherwise identify that the package contains a firearm.

The shipper and recipient must be of legal age as identified by applicable law.

The shipper and recipient are required to comply with all applicable government regulations and laws, including those pertaining to labeling. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives can provide assistance.

FedEx Express will transport ammunition when packed and labeled in compliance with local, state and federal law, and the Dangerous Goods section of this Service Guide. Ammunition is an explosive and must be shipped separately as dangerous goods. You agree not to ship loaded firearms or firearms with ammunition in the same package.

 

Ok I am in AZ now and the gun is in Michigan can my son take it to ups and have the return address and the shipping address differ but with my name only. I have residence in MI and AZ. I guess I'm a little confused just don't want anyone getting in trouble.

 

Joe

[campfire12]

I contactd ruger about a pistol that needed repairs. They sent me a prepaid tag that i had to attach to the box to send to them for repairs in az. The instructions were to take the package to a ups hub to ship out not a ups shiping store or the hardware store whichs ships ups. The lable said ruger so there was not a question as to whereit was going or what was in the package. ups never asked. When it came back to me ups a adult had to sign for it. Thats all i know. contact ups for full details is all im saying. I to thought u could not send firearms ups or mail. But much to my supprise it happens all the time. Thats my 2 cents of knowledge and thats all i got. Good luck.

[Huggy]

GEEE this is one time I'm glad I live in Canada. We can just throw them in a box and off to Canada Post we go!! No special paperwork at all.

 

[Peder_y2k]

I just wonder if taking the gun apart and shipping pieces in a couple pkgs labeled 'machine parts' would work. A gun is basicly a simple machine, and parts and pieces are not a functioning gun.

YMMV

-Pete, in Tacoma WA USA

[star4772]

I just wonder if taking the gun apart and shipping pieces in a couple pkgs labeled 'machine parts' would work. A gun is basicly a simple machine, and parts and pieces are not a functioning gun.

YMMV

-Pete, in Tacoma WA USA

 

I thought of that but not sure if it would work or not.

[dacheedah]

No way around it, the receiver with serial # must be declaired. As a reminder shipping across state lines becomes a federal violation. Personally i would do the ffl thing or take it when you drive.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[star4772]

Well I decided to just do the FFL thing better to pay the $25 at each end and then there is no frill.

 

Thanks for all the advise and suggestions. As always a great site for information.

 

Joe

[RandyR]

The shippers may or may not always honor what the law states. Some just don't want to ship for non-FFL's even in those situations where its legal. The mom & pop shippers aren't experts on the law, so its easy for them to say, no. Going thru a dealer is the safe way. The dealers (both of them) will however have to log the gun in and out of their books.

 

btw, the law does say that the receiver's ffl must be in the box. An ffl isn't required to ship a gun, only to receive one. (Gunsmiths only can ship back to the origonal shipper).

 

 

Your son in Michigan, shipping to you in another state might be ok if there is a bill of sale in your name with the gun. I'd have to get a ruling from BATF in writing on that though, as some of their agents interpret the law in ways that might not hold up in court. But its not worth $50 to find out. You did the easy thing.

[star4772]

The shippers may or may not always honor what the law states. Some just don't want to ship for non-FFL's even in those situations where its legal. The mom & pop shippers aren't experts on the law, so its easy for them to say, no. Going thru a dealer is the safe way. The dealers (both of them) will however have to log the gun in and out of their books.

 

btw, the law does say that the receiver's ffl must be in the box. An ffl isn't required to ship a gun, only to receive one. (Gunsmiths only can ship back to the origonal shipper).

 

 

Your son in Michigan, shipping to you in another state might be ok if there is a bill of sale in your name with the gun. I'd have to get a ruling from BATF in writing on that though, as some of their agents interpret the law in ways that might not hold up in court. But its not worth $50 to find out. You did the easy thing.

 

Thanks for info, yeah I decided to do the easy way so there would be no conflict. $50 wasn't going to break me but if I had to got to court for some stupid reason that would most likely do me in at my age .

[Monty]

The bad thing about shipping firearms, is that they have a tendency to disappear.

 

I have a friend here who has a local gun shop. He is active Army, and they had several pistols customized with their 101st Airborne info & unit motto on them. He had shipped them out to his guys, and 2 of them disappeared in the Atlanta airport. All they found were the empty pistol cases, with the paperwork, lock, etc... in them. Guns & mags were gone, taken by an airport employee. He had shipped them FedEx, and they were insured. Insurance company was giving him a hard time about replacing them, though.

 

Since it has to be listed what is in the box, everyone who handles it knows what is inside. Just the chance you take, I guess. Good luck.

[Flyinfool]

When I had to ship a handgun back to the factory, I was told at that time that it must go UPS next day air. Next day air has the fewest number of people touching the package and the least chance of it growing legs. That was many years ago. I do not know if that was a legal requirement, or the gun factory requirement, or just UPS requirement.

[dacheedah]

Shipping to a factory does not require ffl, trust me they have one

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[rickardracing]

Put it in a USPS if it fits it ships box, package it up really good and take it to the post office and mail the thing. If they ask if there is a firearm in there just say no. You all are making a big deal out of nothing. They are not going to check the box. They are going to put the postage on it once you pay for it and away it goes.

[Condor]

About 5 years ago I had need to ship a rifle for service from California to Remington in N.Y. . I didn't need an FFL to ship the gun as long as I was shipping to an FFL. I did have to declare the package was a firearm to UPS, but the package did not have to be marked as such. Same thing for the return shipping. Remington shipped the gun directly to my front door. I guess because the gun was legally DOJ registered to me it was legal to ship and receive without an FFL dealer doing it. So maybe since you have residence in both states you can legally ship to yourself?? Never thought of it that way??? I think I'd call the ATF and ask just to make sure. I had to call them once before and they were very helpful. I didn't have to ID myself....

[star4772]

Post office said you can ship the gun just take apart and send in 2 separate boxes as parts. That makes it non functional.

 

Joe

[Flyinfool]

But he already took the "safe" route and shipped FFL to FFL.

 

Yes you could just put it in a flat rate box and it will most likely get there ok.

BUT if the box is lost, or damaged to the point of opening, forget about trying to get reimbursed for the contents that you lied about.

[tcbjoe]

You cannot ship a firearm from one individual to another legally.

[RandyR]

There is some bad infomation being posted here that people would be wise to disregard as it could get someone in serious legal trouble.

[dacheedah]

You cannot ship a firearm from one individual to another legally.

 

2nd that. The post office does some screening and finds illegal items all the time. Reminder that it is a federal crime to ship across state lines and firearms end up with enhanced penalties and loss of privileges not to mention you will become a known offender, can I say expect further future screening?

 

1) You can part ways with a few dollars and have no worries.

2) You can skirt around the rules and may end up parting ways with guns, pay a ton of money to some attorney trying to use some loophole to get you a deal that could end up in further confiscation of all of your firearms and privileges and put you on a watch list.

 

#2 to me would be like doin a high speed iron butt ride on bald tires pullin a trailer. You could do it, might make it but why risk it.

 

http://www.gunbroker.com/support/supportfaqview.aspx?faqid=1118

 

My

[star4772]

2nd that. The post office does some screening and finds illegal items all the time. Reminder that it is a federal crime to ship across state lines and firearms end up with enhanced penalties and loss of privileges not to mention you will become a known offender, can I say expect further future screening?

 

1) You can part ways with a few dollars and have no worries.

2) You can skirt around the rules and may end up parting ways with guns, pay a ton of money to some attorney trying to use some loophole to get you a deal that could end up in further confiscation of all of your firearms and privileges and put you on a watch list.

 

#2 to me would be like doin a high speed iron butt ride on bald tires pullin a trailer. You could do it, might make it but why risk it.

 

http://www.gunbroker.com/support/supportfaqview.aspx?faqid=1118

 

My

 

Yeah we did FFL to FFL played it safe don't need to see the inside of a jail cell anyway. :rotf:

[gwashorn]

Put it in a USPS if it fits it ships box, package it up really good and take it to the post office and mail the thing. If they ask if there is a firearm in there just say no. You all are making a big deal out of nothing. They are not going to check the box. They are going to put the postage on it once you pay for it and away it goes.

Let me explain something here, since my wife just retired from the post office a few months after 30 plus years. A person sent ammo that way one day and they "dropped" the box. It broke open. Guess who gets called first and then that agency contacts the sender. It is a federal offense. You send that gun by mail and it gets found, you can kiss it and yourself good bye on that one. Don't do it. I know some that do and it works. I promise you I know. But that one Uh Oh and it gets found and you will wish you had paid the FFL. I have sent by UPS my Beretta directly to the manufacturer and I can do that. It is declared and required over night delivery. I get it back by courier and have to sign. I am presently sending by FFL to my manufacturer this week for repairs to a competition gun and he will send it back to me by courier for signature as always. We are both in state. Crossing state lines has other rules. I suggest playing by them. My two cents.