SaberWing has Narcolepsy!

[StormRaven]

I have a strange issue with the cluster on my '87 Venture Royale. Not every time, but sometimes under acceleration, doesn't seem to matter if it's easy or hard acceleration, the cluster will go out. It can also happen when I shift gears, pretty much anything that changes the rate of acceleration. It has yet to happen on deceleration.

 

I'll lose the Temp Gague, Batt Gague, RPM, and everything on the LCD. I also lose the Neutral indicator bulb and the ability to activate blinkers. I'm only assuming I'm also losing break lights as well as it's not easy to tell in daylight without a spotter. The only things that still appear to work are the indicator Lights and tail light, Headlight, high beam indicator bulb, and Spedo/Odo.

 

The length of time on the failure tends to be about 30 seconds at this point. When I first noticed it yesterday morning, it only lasted for about 5, and only happened twice on the way to work. Today, it's happened several times both going and coming.

 

Only one time on deceleration did the cluster go out, and that was at the same time I hit the blinker to turn onto my street tonight.

 

Wanted to know if anyone had any insight as to where to start troubleshooting first.

 

Also, I wanted to know how to raise the headlight on the Adjustment screw. After I dropped it off for service on the fork seals, when I got it back the Headlight was shooting very low making it so I cant see farther than 3 - 6 feet in front of the bike at night unless I'm using brights, and it's at the very limit on the adjustment screw and wont go any higher.

[KIC]

If you have the original fuse block, check the fuse(s) for a loose connection or in my case a broken fuse clip that held the fuse.

[Prairiehammer]

Also, I wanted to know how to raise the headlight on the Adjustment screw. After I dropped it off for service on the fork seals, when I got it back the Headlight was shooting very low making it so I cant see farther than 3 - 6 feet in front of the bike at night unless I'm using brights, and it's at the very limit on the adjustment screw and wont go any higher.

 

Remove the headlight assembly and reinsert, but ensure the housing tab fits into the adjuster mechanism properly. It's not hard, but a careless mechanic may not even bother to check as he unknowingly slaps the headlight back in. While you are there (inside joke) make sure the headlight housing is, in fact, engaging ITS tabs at the bottom.

 

As for the dash going out, if the techie was behind the headlight, he may have knocked the connectors loose. So, again, when you remove the headlight and "while you are in there" , double check all connectors are secure.

[Flyinfool]

At first I was going to say a bad ground wire to the cluster. but if the brake light is also going out, there is no ground connection for the brake light circuit in the dash, that would imply one of the 2 connectors got knocked loose.

[StormRaven]

The cluster has gone just about completely out now, but now I can control when it comes back on, which is a semi-good thing. What's not a good thing is that the bike is not driveable when all the switches are in the proper positions.

 

Cluster is on with all of the following switches in the following conditions:

 

Turn Signals: Off

Brakes: Off

Kickstand: Down (This is what makes the bike undriveable, obviously)

Ignition: On (This is normal)

Run Switch: On (Engine can be running but not required)

Transmission: Any gear but neutral.

 

If any one or multiple switch is in a different position from that which is listed above, the cluster is off, which means no indicators on the LCD Screen, no Warning light, no fuel gauge(this is the 2nd most important thing to me out of the whole situation though I can gauge that after 110 miles on a tank it's time to fill up.), no clock, no gear indicator, no neutral light, no turn signal indicators, battery gauge drops to 0, temp gauge drops to 0(another one I monitor closely), no RPM gauge, and (most important to me) NO TURN SIGNALS or BRAKE LIGHTS.

 

What still works are the Speedometer (at least SOMETHING is mechanical on the cluster), HighBeam light indicator, and the Headlight failure indicator).

 

 

Which brings me to the rant part of this post... What Kind of MONKEYS wire in the legally important lighting system in the same circuit as the helpful but not necessarily important computer cluster???? If my cluster goes I expect to at least still be able to have working break lights and turn signals! Haven't these people heard of redundant systems??? Good grief, I love how she rides and like how she runs(once I get the plugs changed I think I'll get closer to loving it), but I don't like having to take my hands off the controls right before going into a velocity change to signal my intent... I can handle and control 1,500 lbs without much trouble, but I prefer being able to keep both hands on the bars leading up to the moments when I do it. And no, I don't signal through the change but just before it. I just can't be sure that the morons behind me understood what my signal meant since it's not common knowledge anymore (not that it shouldn't be).

 

Okay... End Rant.

:225:

 

On the other side of the issue: I managed to get the headlight back to where it's supposed to be on adjustablity. The mechanic that did my forks didn't put the spring loaded piece on the headlight assembly into the groove of the adjustment plate that rides the adjusting screw, so it popped out and was essentially ineffective. After muscling it in, it works now. Easy fix here.

Edited August 10, 2013 by StormRaven

[Flyinfool]

Did you check both connectors to the dash to be sure they are plugged in tight and clean?

 

There is a black wire in one of the 2 connectors, run a temporary jumper from that wire to the battery negative and see what that does for your issues.

[IronMike]

I would disconnect every plug up there I could and inspect for corrosion, the green stuff. Move the wiring harness a bit. This is referred to as "massaging the wire harness". Its suppose to relocate it to make a better connection or disturb a short.

 

While we are on the subject. When ever you are in the headlamp or tail lamp housing. Coat the inside of it with duct tape so no wires can ground out on the metal housing and help prevent ground outs.

 

This is the type problem only you can fix a dealer would charge you a million dollars, and it would do it again after you left.

[GAWildKat]

Mike's busy trying to divide time between the bike and homework. ..last semester of college woohoo! Last couple of weekends he's been trying to crank the Venture and it wants to, but battery is giving up before he does. The above fixes were addressed at Vogel last yr save the duct tape. School started back up the day after we came home and until now he hasn't touched the bike. Anyone else have any ideas? Even checking the solder points on the dash was done.

 

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

[Flyinfool]

I still think it sounds like a ground issue.

Ground is the only thing all of those circuits have in common.

 

Run a temporary ground wire from the black wire of the dash connector direct to the battery negative. If that makes a difference then you just need to start going thru and cleaning all of the ground connections till you find the bad one.

[dingy]

The motor dying in neutral is curious though. The gear indicator circuit are a ground activated trigger, they pickup a ground path through the shift drum as it rotates for each position. There is nothing at the drum different about the neutral circuit. Where the neutral circuit differs is that it is tied to the diode assembly. Inside of the diode assembly there are two diodes, one is in the neutral light, the other is in the side stand relay circuit. A failure of either of these diodes will cause erratic symptoms. Mike said that he had no neutral light in the 5th post, this seems like it has to be caused by the neutral light not having 12v+ on it.

 

Does not address turn signal relation to problem though.

 

Most of the affected circuits run through the 20 amp signal fuse. This doesn't explain the apparent symptom of the cluster dying when the engine stop switch is off though.

 

The thermostat dropping out is indicative of it not being a ground issue causing the overall event. The thermostat gauge has an independent ground circuit that runs through the thermistor in the cooling joint assembly, this ground is totally independent of any grounds directly in the cluster. Not saying it is not somehow tied in the harness to the cluster head ground though.

 

Brakes causing cluster to die could be related to a loose or dirty contact in the cluster. The brake circuit does run through the CMU, but only thing I am aware that it does is to activate the reed switch that disables CMU warning of a brake light failure. The brake light circuit does not seem to need a ground in CMU to allow pass through of current to brake lights. Granted the warning icon circuit on CMU would activate with a bad ground, but with CMU dead, this would not be indicated.

 

Have fun, electrical problems are very hard to diagnose when you are at the bike, let alone on the other side of an internet connection.

 

Gary

[GAWildKat]

The motor dying in neutral is curious though. The gear indicator circuit are a ground activated trigger, they pickup a ground path through the shift drum as it rotates for each position. There is nothing at the drum different about the neutral circuit. Where the neutral circuit differs is that it is tied to the diode assembly. Inside of the diode assembly there are two diodes, one is in the neutral light, the other is in the side stand relay circuit. A failure of either of these diodes will cause erratic symptoms. Mike said that he had no neutral light in the 5th post, this seems like it has to be caused by the neutral light not having 12v+ on it.

 

Does not address turn signal relation to problem though.

 

Most of the affected circuits run through the 20 amp signal fuse. This doesn't explain the apparent symptom of the cluster dying when the engine stop switch is off though.

 

The thermostat dropping out is indicative of it not being a ground issue causing the overall event. The thermostat gauge has an independent ground circuit that runs through the thermistor in the cooling joint assembly, this ground is totally independent of any grounds directly in the cluster. Not saying it is not somehow tied in the harness to the cluster head ground though.

 

Brakes causing cluster to die could be related to a loose or dirty contact in the cluster. The brake circuit does run through the CMU, but only thing I am aware that it does is to activate the reed switch that disables CMU warning of a brake light failure. The brake light circuit does not seem to need a ground in CMU to allow pass through of current to brake lights. Granted the warning icon circuit on CMU would activate with a bad ground, but with CMU dead, this would not be indicated.

 

Have fun, electrical problems are very hard to diagnose when you are at the bike, let alone on the other side of an internet connection.

 

Gary

 

No, engine doesn't die in neutral, it runs; just the brake lights, turn signals, and horn doesn't function. The cluster will not function unless Mike has all the switches, etc in the above pattern.

Edited March 10, 2014 by GAWildKat
Better?

[dingy]

No, engine doesn't die in neutral, it runs; just the brake lights, turn signals, and horn doesn't function. The cluster will not function unless Mike has all the switches, etc in the above pattern.

 

That color text is hard to read !!

 

 

Gary

[dingy]

No, engine doesn't die in neutral, it runs; just the brake lights, turn signals, and horn doesn't function. The cluster will not function unless Mike has all the switches, etc in the above pattern.

 

Fixed it.

 

The CMU dying in neutral is curious though. The gear indicator circuit are a ground activated trigger, they pickup a ground path through the shift drum as it rotates for each position. There is nothing at the drum different about the neutral circuit. Where the neutral circuit differs is that it is tied to the diode assembly. Inside of the diode assembly there are two diodes, one is in the neutral light, the other is in the side stand relay circuit. A failure of either of these diodes will cause erratic symptoms. Mike said that he had no neutral light in the 5th post, this seems like it has to be caused by the neutral light not having 12v+ on it.

 

Does not address turn signal relation to problem though.

 

Most of the affected circuits run through the 20 amp signal fuse. This doesn't explain the apparent symptom of the cluster dying when the engine stop switch is off though.

 

The thermostat dropping out is indicative of it not being a ground issue causing the overall event. The thermostat gauge has an independent ground circuit that runs through the thermistor in the cooling joint assembly, this ground is totally independent of any grounds directly in the cluster. Not saying it is not somehow tied in the harness to the cluster head ground though.

 

Brakes causing cluster to die could be related to a loose or dirty contact in the cluster. The brake circuit does run through the CMU, but only thing I am aware that it does is to activate the reed switch that disables CMU warning of a brake light failure. The brake light circuit does not seem to need a ground in CMU to allow pass through of current to brake lights. Granted the warning icon circuit on CMU would activate with a bad ground, but with CMU dead, this would not be indicated.

 

Have fun, electrical problems are very hard to diagnose when you are at the bike, let alone on the other side of an internet connection.

 

Gary

[Huggy]

Just addressing the issue of the battery dieing while cranking engine. I use a regular car or marine battery for such times. I have made up long battery cables to bolt to the bikes cables. I then use this battery while working on the bike. t saves ruining the bikes battery from constant recharging.

[GAWildKat]

I may as well update this thread since Mike didn't. The horns had shorted out from the wires rubbing together and rubbing the insulation off. This caused the short for everything else. Mike has a new set of horns to replace the old horns, but hasn't gotten around to buying the wire yet. He has unplugged the horns and separated the bad wires for the time being. Tonight he changes the oil and replaces the starter before going to the b2's on fri. He's still planning to trailer the bike, but time is getting short. So you may see us there towing the bike or not.

[StormRaven]

Got the starter in, filled the crank case with oil, turned her over and boy what a beautiful sound that starter makes. No dragging, smooth as glass, and strong as an Ox. I still have to see how he does cranking while the engine is hot, but so far I like it. Tomorrow I plan on flushing the cooling system and filling it up with fresh Anti-Freeze. The big thing about the starter replacement, 100% self done. Didn't need any guidance from the supervisor(Kat) or any documents, aside from the service manual about how to operate the drain spigot (it was not in the correct position to begin with so I needed to see what position it needed to be in to drain out the plug properly). Only one minor injury later, and it was done!

[Flyinfool]

Without Kats supervision? How did you manage that????

[GAWildKat]

Shocking I know. He can do oil changes by himself...that's a feat. I was chillin watching tv while he was supposed to be changing the oil...I hear him scream bloody murder and met him in the downstairs bathroom where he was washing up a bloodied thumb. (he gouged it good trying to remove a hose) That's when I learned he decided to tackle the starter after dropping the oil. Bandaged him back up and sent him back to work. He puttered a bit more before deciding to take me to dinner and a movie. Hopefully he should have it all put together tonight and ready for going to the B2's on Fri.