Massive failure of Avon Venom rear tire

[GeorgeS]

Don't ever do that again !!!!!

[debelt]

Wow, some pretty low mileage being reported for the Avons. Maybe there is a significant difference in their bias plys vs. their radiials. I run Avon Venom R's (radials) on my VTX and have got 12K easily out of two sets, so go figure.

[Condor]

Wow, some pretty low mileage being reported for the Avons. Maybe there is a significant difference in their bias plys vs. their radiials. I run Avon Venom R's (radials) on my VTX and have got 12K easily out of two sets, so go figure.

 

Riding styles dictate the milage. Worn out is worn out no matter how you get there. Even radials won't last that long during the burn out competition at Sturges....

[VTirelli]

I plan on changing my Avons at 11 - 12000 miles no matter HOW good the tread looks. No reason to be looking for timres mid way through a long trip. Plus, it isn't worth the pain. That picture shows a plain failure to check your most vital safety equipment.

[yamahamer]

I THOUGHT FIRST GENS WERE FASTER THAN 2nd GEN AND I CAN SPIN MINE FROM A STOP OR ANYTHING UNDER 20 mph.

[Yama Mama]

Infonaut, I am curious what brand tire you replaced the Avon rear tire with?

Just curious. A woman's

prerogative I suppose.

 

Mama

 

 

 

[loehring]

I know there are many here that don't like Metzlers but I'm on my third rear ME 880 Marathon and I've averaged 20k. I'm about ready to change the one on there now because I'm almost to the wear lines. My riding is 90% solo and Interstate but I love the tires. I got almost 45k out of the front before changing and I've never had a single problem. I commute 100 miles a day so it never sits and I check the tread and pressure at least twice a week. I've never been accused of being a conservative rider so I don't know what I'm doing different.

[infonaut]

YamaMama: Ended up getting another Venom. I stuck with it to match the Avon front tire I put on two weeks ago when its predecessor hit a nail. I've generally been very happy with the brand - I can't blame them for my own mistake - plus their customer service was fantastic. (See below for more on this.)

 

Anyway, when I picked up the mounted replacement on Wednesday, I asked the dealer to look at the dead one again. He stuck with his previous judgment that it was a bad tire/tread failure because "it looks like a Metzler of mine that had the same thing happen." (I guess he must unwisely run his tires bald too.)

 

But after a closer look and reading your responses, I'm sure that you all are right on this one. I just plain wore that tire out and consider myself lucky that nothing worse happened.

 

Definitely learned some lessons on this:

 

1) I'd seen many threads on this site (and another) where people got 15k+ on their Venoms but now I understand that it doesn't matter what someone else's bike gets out of them.

 

2) I was also stupid to assume that the shop that mounted the front tire two weeks earlier would have alerted me to a rear tire that was obviously worn out when they had it up on the lift. (The offered lots of not-very-informed opinions about other stuff, but not the rear tire.)

 

 

3) Now that I know what it looks like when a motorcycle rear tire is worn out (from a closer look at the blown tire in the areas where the stitching wasn't visible yet), I know that I've got to do a better job at looking at the center tread surface and not being fooled by the less-worn side areas where the grooves were still deep. When I'd checked it before, I think I was somehow thinking it would wear more like a car tire so that as long as there were deep grooves still on most of its surface everything was okay. Now I know better. As 86er said:

"

I've had an Avon on my Intruder that looked good every time I looked at it walking up behind the bike. Then suddnly it was in the cords like your's! I think the Venom is deceptive because the way the tread is cut, it looks good because you can't always see the groove that goes all the way across the tire , your mind tells you it's still good. The only safe way to check that tire is inspect it all the way around and check the tire wear indicators.

"

 

4) I've always run those Avons at full pressure (50 lbs.), checking the pressure before nearly every ride, and I thought that was appropriate given the weight of the bike plus me (in excess of 1100 lbs total). After sending that photo to the manufacturer and describing the circumstances, they recommended that I run a little lower - 42-44 rear and 34-38 front so I don't wear out the center of the tire prematurely. Here's the Avon rep's full reply:

The psi on the side of a tire is not always the recommended operating psi. The Venom belted tire is amazing in that it can be inflated to 50psi when under very heavy loads but we recommend for your bike 36-38 psi up front and 42-44 psi in the rear for normal use at around 180 lbs rider weight. If the rider weighs more or if you are riding two up or just have a lot of luggage then we recommend inflating 2-4 lbs on up to 50psi if needed. Running the tire at the max psi and going on a trip where you are doing a lot of straight line riding will naturally wear out the center of the tire before the edges. My guess is that the tire was almost worn when you started your trip. During the long trip it wore through the center of the tire, causing the blowout. A simple case of over use of a tire.

 

 

My recommendation to everyone before they go on a trip is to evaluate their tires and see if they can make the trip safely

taking into

consideration the amount of miles they intend to ride and the amount of tread left on their tires. All tires have wear bars in their tread grooves. The wear bars stand 1mm above the casing and when reached the tire is considered 100% worn and should be replaced as soon as possible. It is a good idea to become familiar with where these wear bars are and become familiar with the rate at which your bike wears tires so that when looking your bike over before each ride you can have a good idea how much life your tires have left in them. This is something that all riders have to get a feel for themselves because it differs greatly depending on the bike, the rider's weight, the rider's style, how much they ride in the rain, what the climate and conditions of where they ride are like, ect. There are many variables that affect this.

 

 

Again, thank you for the pictures and the feed back. I am glad to hear that your accident was no where near as bad as it could have been. Thank you for your support of Avon tyres. If you have any other questions in the future that we can answer for you please feel free to drop us a line.

(BTW, Avon was VERY prompt and thorough in their responses. Kudos to them!)

 

5) I need to be more diligent about logging my maintenance, including tire mounting dates and mileage.

 

6) Once again, Ride-On saved my bacon! That's the second time now.

 

BTW, I didn't get a chance to take those better pix before leaving Philly because of a fast-approaching storm but I'll try to post them in a week or so along with a cross-section for GeorgeS.

 

Thanks to those of you who had friendly, patient and thoughtful responses. You folks make me proud to be a VentureRider.

 

Finally, to those eloquent scribes like XXXXXXXXXXXXX who can't write a coherent sentence but have somehow earned the right to be sanctimonious, sarcastic XXXXXXXX who can't tell the difference between an honest question and "*****ing," XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX. Most of us come here to learn from other riders' experiences, not to make ourselves feel better by putting others down and being complete XXXXXXXXXXXX.

 

(Reviewed and edited by Black Owl to keep this thread from headings south. Too much good information to scuttle it )

[sarges46]

Sad end to an otherwise good thread. Sure didnt need to see it go that way.

[Tartan Terror]

:whistling::whistling::whistling:

[Guest gregs02]

i have a friend who has a goldwing,,and he warned me about AVON tires,,he showed me a story in WingWorld about AVON tires,,and that they blow out alot..

[Freebird]

I believe the Wind uses an entirely different tire. If I'm not mistaken, they use a radial. At any rate, you won't find many here that don't love the Avons. It appears to pretty much be the tire of choice for the Venture. I've run Dunlop, Bridgestone, Metzler and Michelin. The Michelin has been my favorite to date but I'm one of the few here who hasn't tried the Avon. I will be putting a set of Avons on this season to compare them to the Michelins. Now for the RSV, the only tire that there have been repeated reports of failure is the Metzler. A few here have run them and are happy but there have been MANY cases of tread separation.

[Guest KitCarson]

Yes the Wing uses radial tires. Avon does make a radial for the Wing...Avon makes tires for a lot of applications. They are an excellent tire, never heard anything about them blowing out.......any tire if not properly maintained and kept properly inflated can fail prematurely. As can road damage cause one to fail also. Most cases of premature tire failure can be landed right back to the rider.....my blowout long ago was my own fault....I ran the tire too long. I figure with modern tires and even with my favorite which is also Michelin they will get changed at 10,000 miles whether they need it or not....I just want good tires for many reasons. The only tire I have heard a lot about with serious blow out problems and or separation of the treads is the Metzler. So far everything I can find out is the ones made in France were the ones that had all the problems. This was the Metzler 880. This tire is still made...supposedly corrected.......have not heard of any recent situations with them......they do have a great tread pattern........and may in a couple years try a set.....after watching a bit more...........

[Guest gregs02]

COOL !!

[Ferrantelli]

I know there are many here that don't like Metzlers but I'm on my third rear ME 880 Marathon and I've averaged 20k. I'm about ready to change the one on there now because I'm almost to the wear lines. My riding is 90% solo and Interstate but I love the tires. I got almost 45k out of the front before changing and I've never had a single problem. I commute 100 miles a day so it never sits and I check the tread and pressure at least twice a week. I've never been accused of being a conservative rider so I don't know what I'm doing different.

 

Finally someone else with mileage on tires. For a long time I thought I was alone. Put 25K on the rear Bridgstone on my Vulcan and replaced my front Bridgstone after 27K because it developed small hair line cracks along the sides and in between the treads. Sold the bike with Metzler's with 21K miles on the rear tire and 19K on the front with plenty of life left. On my Venture I have 8,100 on the original Dunlaps and looking for 15K more and yes I will replace them with Metzler's. Look at the rear tire what do you think after 8,100 miles. I must be doing something wrong, and do not plan on stopping.

http://i27.tinypic.com/1zdxhrc.jpg

[Rich99]

I guess I should say, the one before the last one. 150-90B-15. That tire got a little over 24,000 miles. The tire I got after that, the 150-90-15 only got 8,500 miles. When I ordered this last rear tire, it was suppose to be a 150-90H-15, but they sent me the 24,000 mile tire again, the 150-90B-15. So anyway, I'll keep an eye on the tire they use to sell all the time and don't now, to see if I get 24,000 miles out of it again.

[Marcarl]

As I read and kept up with this thread, (I didn't get to read all the juicey edited stuff), I felt a general serious love and concern for a fellow rider. Sometimes we get a little over done when that happens, but that's what happens when we get seriously concerned about each other. We also will point blank tell each other off if necessary, and though this may cause some ripple here and there, it goes back to: WE CARE FOR EACH OTHER, and we don't seem to mind getting involved in that way. Thanks guys, it's good to belong here.

[greg_in_london]

My worst mileage experience was with a Kenda or something similar - it was supposed to be able to take a load of 1000lbs, but at reasonable speeds (below 60mph) it had run out of tread in 800-1000 miles. I know I had a big sidecar and was pulling a trailer, but it left me in the middle of Scotland, heading for a boat crossing to Ireland unable to find another tyre.

I had to keep the speed below forty as much as possible and aim for puddles to keep the tyres cool until a replacement was delivered just in time for a return to England a week later.

Really shows how qickly they can wear when they get hot and how some road surfaces are more abrasive than others.

[Pyro]

Hi Greg, good to see your post. I've seen the threads on my sidecar rig after only 8000 miles. But the fact that they don't lean at all makes it wear in the center much, much quicker. (As you know) But I still say "Your sidecar is on the WRONG side of the bike!" haha (Just kidding!)

 

For those who haven't seen Greg's sidecar setup, it's quite a rig! See photo.

 

Infonaut, I had the "pleasure" of riding an Avon to it's last breath of life last summer. see that photo too!

 

I got spanked by all the holier than thou's as well, but in a sense they are right. We all live & learn.

 

Nothing like the feeling of that sloppy, swishie, kinda feeling when only the centrifugal force of the rubber turning at 75 mph is keeping the sidewalls from collapsing.

 

It was scarier slowing down than it was running it flat!

 

Joe

[captnmidnight]

I believe the Wind uses an entirely different tire. If I'm not mistaken, they use a radial. At any rate, you won't find many here that don't love the Avons. It appears to pretty much be the tire of choice for the Venture. I've run Dunlop, Bridgestone, Metzler and Michelin. The Michelin has been my favorite to date but I'm one of the few here who hasn't tried the Avon. I will be putting a set of Avons on this season to compare them to the Michelins. Now for the RSV, the only tire that there have been repeated reports of failure is the Metzler. A few here have run them and are happy but there have been MANY cases of tread separation.

 

After reading freebirds reply, I'm confused! (which is a normal state of mind for me).Question: Are the avon wide white walls tires that so many of you run on your 2nd gens,radials or byass?. can you run byass or radial in the AVON VENOMS? and what are all the differences between the two if you can?I was under the impession that you should run radials nowadays for better traction and that allmost all tires sold today were radials.

[autopilot]

After reading freebirds reply, I'm confused! (which is a normal state of mind for me).Question: Are the avon wide white walls tires that so many of you run on your 2nd gens,radials or byass?. can you run byass or radial in the AVON VENOMS? and what are all the differences between the two if you can?I was under the impession that you should run radials nowadays for better traction and that allmost all tires sold today were radials.

 

 

Hey, Captn.. There was a thread the other day tht got into the bias vs radial deal! I think the gist of it was....NO to radials. Bike nor the rims are designed for 'em. Here's the thread... Kit had a good bit to say about it. http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=20442

[captnmidnight]

Hey, Captn.. There was a thread the other day tht got into the bias vs radial deal! I think the gist of it was....NO to radials. Bike nor the rims are designed for 'em. Here's the thread... Kit had a good bit to say about it. http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=20442

 

Autopilot, thanks for the heads up on the past thread.I must have missed that one. It answered all my questions. Hey I noticed that you live 15 miles from me,(loris),,we'll have to get together sometime and do some ridin. I'm not home all that much but I will be home the 1st of april. Lookin forward to meetin you. thx again.

 

[greg_in_london]

Hi Pyro,

 

It's always odd seeing yourself on the web.

 

For some reason I had a few days of not being able to log onto the site (or load the page at all) but alright now.

 

I generally reckon that 8,000 is good mileage on my outfit, but I may have more stop-starting than the US average. I don't think I had the trailer tent when you came over - that's a bit of a strain, but it seems to manage it.

It does make me wonder about the 'weak' first gen frames that people used to post about (oops, - hope I haven't tempted fate) - if mine were going to go, it's had enough work to do from me, even allowing for my gentle riding style.

[Pyro]

Greg, It's not just odd seeing you on the web, You're odd in real life TOO! haha.

 

I even have a video clip of that Pub in Greenwich. You & your buddies were playing the whole night long. It was awesome!

 

The lighting is very poor, but it was the music I'll never forget.

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/Sidecar-Pyro/th_GreenwichUKPub.jpg

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/Sidecar-Pyro/MVC-133S.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/Sidecar-Pyro/MVC-131S.jpg

 

 

I'm sure you will get a lot of mile out of your rig. You've been good to it & it should be good to you in return.

 

It would be so fun if you two could come on over for the International Venture In scheduled for the second week in July. You would have to bring your fiddle too!

 

Joe