CARB help question!

[repsolracer22]

Hey guys. wanted to run something by you. Have a first gen carb Im rebuilding. Ive rebuilt many carbs previously so i know what im doing and i have all original yamaha parts im replacing.

 

question: On the float needles I cannot remove the seats. What is the procedure for this? And do i need to drill & replace the silver caps/plugs? On parts diagrams, i dont see where i can purchase the plugs new ... so i didnt want to drill them unless i had a replacement.

 

Then I thought I could just bang the seat towards the plug and it would push the plug out and i could install the new seats & re-use the plugs .... so i tapped the seats and they moved, but now wont budge anymore.

 

what next? thanks

[Prairiehammer]

It's a bit late now, but most don't bother to replace the float valve seat. However, since you've pushed it down into the carb body, it will have to be replaced or at least pushed out to where it was originally. The seat has an O-ring and a screen at the fuel inlet end.

The brass/aluminum cover plug on top is sometimes "staked" in four places with a punch. To get the plug out, use a small (~1/8 or 3/32") drill to drill a SHALLOW hole just deep enough to remove the staking/deformation at each of the four locations, but not all the way through the plug. It will come out easily, and the seat can be removed. You can re-use this plug by staking it with a punch in different locations when you re-install it. Just don't drill all the way through it.

Alternately, drill a small hole in the center of the plug and after inserting a sheet metal screw pull on the screw to remove. But you better have a replacement plug or know a machinist to turn you another replacement.

 

Also there is a strainer screen in there. You probably have deformed it by knocking the seat up against the plug. It looks like you have knocked the seat pretty good and have chipped the brass, so it will more than likely need replacement now, too. If you don't use a replacement screen, scrub the old one or soak it in an oxalic acid solution (the screen not the carb body) and clean it up.

 

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=69927

 

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=75834

Edited July 18, 2013 by Prairiehammer

[repsolracer22]

It's a bit late now, but most don't bother to replace the float valve seat. However, since you've pushed it down into the carb body, it will have to be replaced or at least pushed out to where it was originally. The seat has an O-ring and a screen at the fuel inlet end.

The brass/aluminum cover plug on top is sometimes "staked" in four places with a punch. To get the plug out, use a small (~1/8 or 3/32") drill to drill a SHALLOW hole just deep enough to remove the staking/deformation at each of the four locations, but not all the way through the plug. It will come out easily, and the seat can be removed. You can re-use this plug by staking it with a punch in different locations when you re-install it. Just don't drill all the way through it.

Alternately, drill a small hole in the center of the plug and after inserting a sheet metal screw pull on the screw to remove. But you better have a replacement plug or know a machinist to turn you another replacement.

 

Also there is a strainer screen in there. You probably have deformed it by knocking the seat up against the plug. It looks like you have knocked the seat pretty good and have chipped the brass, so it will more than likely need replacement now, too. If you don't use a replacement screen, scrub the old one or soak it in an oxalic acid solution (the screen not the carb body) and clean it up.

 

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=69927

 

thanks for the info but i really dont understand what you mean. the "plug" im referring to is the silver plug in picture #2. Its just a smooth round plug ... i dont see "4 stake" locations or know what you mean by that. And I also dont understand what you mean by "drill it" and remove the staking ...?

[Prairiehammer]

If you are gonna pull the "silver" plug, drill a hole into it and screw a sheet metal screw into the drilled hole and yank it out.

 

As for the "staking", it is sometimes not apparent and maybe it wasn't done on yours at all. "Staking" is usually just a dimple made by a prick punch or similar to deform the carb body enough to prevent the plug from falling out.

[repsolracer22]

If you are gonna pull the "silver" plug, drill a hole into it and screw a sheet metal screw into the drilled hole and yank it out.

 

As for the "staking", it is sometimes not apparent and maybe it wasn't done on yours at all. "Staking" is usually just a dimple made by a prick punch or similar to deform the carb body enough to prevent the plug from falling out.

 

i assumed i was going to have to drill the caps .... but i need to know what people are using as replacements

[Prairiehammer]

The plug that you are going to have to replace is called a "Welch" plug. Commonly used on all carburetors. Go to an auto supply store or a small engine shop or parts supplier with the diameter of the open hole and start matching up with their stock.

Good luck.

[MiCarl]

The plug is still available from Yamaha for the 86-93.

 

Appears it also has an o-ring that is available for all years of 1st gen.

 

If it's an 83-85 (or maybe even a MKII) I'd be tempted to drill and tap it for a small screw. Then re-use it with a short screw to plug your hole.

[Snaggletooth]

I would have yelled STOP if I had know you were getting into that. Been there. Did all four carbs on one set. Really found no need to replace the seats. Needles wear a lot faster than the seats do.

 

But since you're already there..... I found plugs that fit by going door door to several small engine shops. No Idea what they were meant for in the beginning, just digging in what they had on hand.

 

You will probably need the new filter. Refered to as a NET FILTER.. 1J7-14994-00-00. It's a small filter with a domed face so it can get crushed. If you drill too far through the plug it may have been damaged.

 

If you are doing other carbs just spray carb cleaner into seat and use compressed air to blow back from the seat side to remove any debris back though the feed pipe.

[repsolracer22]

how is the seat removed?? does it get pulled out from bottom or come out the top where the cap/plug is?

 

and i cant see on the parts diagram for yamaha where you can buy the replacement plug

[Snaggletooth]

It come out through the top after you remove the plug and the net filter.

[Prairiehammer]

It come out through the top after you remove the plug and the net filter.

 

You sure, Mike?

Cause, I've been reading on the V-Max and Virago sites that IF, IF you need to replace the seat, that it goes in from the bowl side and the new one gets pressed in, again from the bowl side. But, I've never removed the seat to know for sure.

One guy drilled his seat out using incrementally larger bits until he could pry out the remains. I sure don't see how you could get a straight shot at the seat from the bowl side, though.

To the OP: what year Venture are we talking about? If it is a 1986 or newer the plug is available from Yamaha ($$$) just as Carl (MiCarl) said. Part number: 41R-14118-01-00. The same setup is used on the VMax and Virago.

[Snaggletooth]

Hey Kevin,

 

It's been 6 years since I did that but I remember I got into the same jam Repsol was dealing with. I tried to pry the seats out from the bottom, which was difficult to do without risking the pivot arm for the floats. Ended up damaging a seat. I think it was Rick down at Buckeye Performance I talked to back them on removal and ordering parts.

 

I ended up drilling and tapping the plug to pull it and then removed the net filter with a pick. I found a set of small channel locks and pushed the seat out through the plug hole.

 

I was downstairs looking for a couple of spare needle seats I had left over from a Yamaha OEM set to check for any lip that would show seating direction. All my spare carbs parts have been moved to the storage unit. I don't recall any o-ring seal on the seats but it's been a few years. The net filters had a bit of a seal on them if I remember right.

 

But I recall everything being done through the plug side. Dropped in seat, tapped it down, inserted net filter and installed new plug. Tapped down and staked three sides of the plug on the carb body, not on the plug itself.

 

I can't see how a seat could be pressed in from the inside without risk of damage to the seat. Like you said, it's not a straight shot from that side. Any looseness would allow it to drop down and fall into the fuel bowl. Movement downward would wreck havoc on the fuel level.

[Prairiehammer]

Thanks, Mike.

Sounds like your memory is just fine.

 

Jason's dilemma has me checking for a solution to a problem I have never encountered. Your experience is invaluable.

 

It seems that the BDS35 carbs have a slightly different arrangement than the BDS34 (like on your bike). On the later models perhaps the plug is more a "cup" held in with an O-ring?

 

I don't know, but I am certainly going to keep an eye on this thread and hopefully Jason will include pictures and Model description when he get this sorted out.

 

Jason, based on what Mike has said, can you not just keep driving the seat out toward the plug until everything is pushed out of the carb body? I know you will ruin the seat and the net filter and maybe the plug, but if you are careful not to damage the bore where the seat is, this may be doable.

[Snaggletooth]

I worry about my memory Kevin. I really do.

 

But seeing his post brought back issues from way back in the beginning and I've done a lot of different carbs on different bikes since then. If I can get down to the storage unit and find the OEM needle seats I still have that should answers one one question for sure.

 

I know for sure after talking to Rick I ordered all the needle and seat sets, net filters and plugs from them. At the time he had no plugs available so the stop and shop was on. I probably wouldn't have ordered all the filters and plugs if they came out from the inside.

 

 

I know one thing, without a real good reason to do so, I wouldn't go that far again.

 

I was just reviewing the CD on rebuilding the V-Max carbs. I notice there they made no attempt to remove or replace the seats. Don't look like they even touched them. Or I missed it. I love fast forward.

 

Like you, I'll be watch what happens here and I will post any other info I find.

[Prairiehammer]

I was just reviewing the CD on rebuilding the V-Max carbs.

 

Huh!

I didn't know there was a CD on rebuilding the V-Max carbs. I would like a copy. Anyway you can burn one for me? Or point me to where I can get one?

[Snaggletooth]

PM sent Kevin

[repsolracer22]

thanks for all the help so far.

 

the bike is an 83. in the parts diagram they dont show a cap available. so not sure.

 

the reason i decided to replace them was because the float needle removed had the standard rubber tip, and the NEW needles are all metal. So i felt like Id rather have the corresponding new seat. (plus i didnt anticipate it being a big deal)

 

im going to drill them this weekend, but i just wanted to have a simple solution for replacement caps

[Prairiehammer]

thanks for all the help so far.

 

the bike is an 83. in the parts diagram they dont show a cap available. so not sure.

 

the reason i decided to replace them was because the float needle removed had the standard rubber tip, and the NEW needles are all metal. So i felt like Id rather have the corresponding new seat. (plus i didnt anticipate it being a big deal)

 

im going to drill them this weekend, but i just wanted to have a simple solution for replacement caps

 

According to Yamaha ( http://m.yamahamotorsports.com/partsviewer.aspx#/Yamaha/XVZ12TK_-_1983/CARBURETOR/XVZ12TK_%281983_MOTORCYCLE%29/CARBURETOR_%28XVZ12TK_-_1983%29 ) the cap is the same as the 1986+.

 

I would be suspicious of the all metal float valve needle. That isn't the norm. Almost all have had the Viton tip. Your kit included new seats?