Anti Dive elctrical disconnects

[bongobobny]

Hmmm, not understanding why bouncing the front end should make a difference in current. A solenoid is a solenoid regardless. Interesting that you are reading an amp more per solenoid but my test was just the solenoid and a battery. I can see more initial current with fluid but once a solenoid closes the current should level out.

 

Regardless, lets do some load calculations. let's assume you are at a stop for 3 minutes. 5 amps per minute equals 15 amp minutes divided by 60 minutes per hour equals 0.25 amp hours. If that is going to kill your battery then Houston we have a problem...

[Flyinfool]

I agree

 

Ahhhhhh, BUT

 

If that extra 5 A puts you over the top of what the RR can safely pass then you are stressing the RR for that 3 minutes at a time.

 

As to why there is a change while compressing the front end, my WAG is it could be that the oil pressure is moving the armature of the solenoid slightly off center and that changes the magnetic saturation point and thus the amp draw.

Ya, that's it, that sounds good.

Edited July 12, 2013 by Flyinfool

[KIC]

So how does all that equate into Watts and draw in comparison to the 55watt light theory ?

 

Did I type that ?? Confusion at it's best...

[Prairiehammer]

So how does all that equate into Watts and draw in comparison to the 55watt light theory ?

 

Did I type that ?? Confusion at it's best...

 

 

To convert amps to watts: multiply amps times volts equals watts.

5A X 13V= 65Watts

Coincidentally(?) 65 watts is exactly half of the charging current at idle (130 watts at 950 rpm)

 

My question: Was the five amps current draw for ONE solenoid or BOTH?

Edited July 12, 2013 by Prairiehammer

[bongobobny]

Yeah! Where did you measure that Jeff??

[Flyinfool]

That was measured at the relay, so it is for both.

I had the bike at 2000 rpm and the system voltage was at 13.9.

 

5 a X 13.9V = 69.5watts.

[MasterGuns]

After reading all this, I immediately disconnected both AD on my 86. Now at a light, especially a long light, I do not see nearly as much a drop in the volt meter. Rides the same, stops the same as before. Thanks for all the info.

[KIC]

That was measured at the relay, so it is for both.

I had the bike at 2000 rpm and the system voltage was at 13.9.

 

5 a X 13.9V = 69.5watts.

 

So ( out of curiosity) does it make a difference on the draw depending on the RPM ? My89 idles at around 900 - 1000RPMS. I saw the biggest "draw" at idle but if I gave it throttle and raised the RPMS while idling, the draw obviously did not show as much due to the higher charging output.

[Flyinfool]

at idle it is very possible that the full load of everything on the bike will be more than what the charging system can put out.

The output of the stator goes up with RPM, and the draw of the solenoid also goes up as the voltage goes up. But the charging system output goes up faster than the draw goes up so you still see the increase on the voltmeter.

 

Did that make any sense at all?

[bongobobny]

What I'm driving at is people smarter than both of us designed the system and it has never been an issue for many many years! All of a sudden some misinformed individual thinks it's a problem so everyone else jumps on the band wagon...

 

To each their own...

[KIC]

at idle it is very possible that the full load of everything on the bike will be more than what the charging system can put out.

The output of the stator goes up with RPM, and the draw of the solenoid also goes up as the voltage goes up. But the charging system output goes up faster than the draw goes up so you still see the increase on the voltmeter.

 

Did that make any sense at all?

 

 

And I'm not sure, by the way some of the designs on bikes and cars, would lead towards the belief that they "are smarter than us " ...

[Flyinfool]

They may have used the best technology available 30 years ago, but modern springs have made things better and changed the needs of the machine.

 

There are a number of things that were done back then that were considered new cutting edge technology at the time, but have not been used previously or since.

 

Once I get my progressive springs in I will see for myself if the AD makes a difference. with the stock springs the AD is a noticeable benefit.

[Black wing]

yes bongobobny i see what your trying to say but these are out dated tech and most of us have up graded our suspensions and have different electronics. these bikes were designed with a horrifically weak charging system and every ounce of power we can save is needed. 5 amps may not seem like much but its 5 amps being wasted on something unnecessary

[bongobobny]

Yes I understand that Black wing, my point is these bikes have been working just fine for years and years with the system and then all of a sudden they are a problem??? It's not like they are on all of the time. My point is if you are having a problem with your electrical system fix THAT! There are higher output stators, better R/R's and absolutely better batteries available!

 

The anti dives were a luxury feature for the Venture to make for smoother and safer stops. In reality the technology stopped due to "cheaper, Better(?) faster" business practices...

[mbrood]

With the stock spring, I'm sure the designers felt it better to use a front end anti-dive to take it easy on the spring. With the advent of the Progressive upgrade the tendency of the high dive rate was eliminated, yet we still use a system designed for a spring that's not there? Look in the maintenance manual for the front spring replacement interval, that explains quite a bit on it's own.

 

Mike

[stanG]

Can someone show a pic or a diagram as to where these electrical connections are exactly. I can't seem to find them.

[mralex714]

Can someone show a pic or a diagram as to where these electrical connections are exactly. I can't seem to find them.

 

If your bike is an 83 you don't have electric anti dive.

[Snaggletooth]

stanG,

 

If you're looking for the electrical connections for the anti-dives you won't find them on your bike. Your bike is an MKI model with the hydraulic anti-dives. No drain on power with them.

 

The MKII has the electric ones.

[dacheedah]

C the love here, u coulda posted out of focus pictures with confusing directions.

[stanG]

stanG,

 

If you're looking for the electrical connections for the anti-dives you won't find them on your bike. Your bike is an MKI model with the hydraulic anti-dives. No drain on power with them.

 

The MKII has the electric ones.

 

Ok that's what I thought since I didn't see any wires going down to them. Maybe I was just hoping I could free up more juice for the lighting. I have purchased the upgraded stator but since mine is still working fine I'm waiting until this winter to replace it.

[stanG]

Thanks for showing me the love here. I guess i had a major brain fart.

[Silverado6x6]

Just to revive an old thread, why not install an electrical timer that energizes the Ad coils just for a short period no matter how long the brakes are applied?

 

Like a 5 second timer? Long enough for them to function yet cuts off power when say at a stop light with brakes applied.

[KIC]

Just to revive an old thread, why not install an electrical timer that energizes the Ad coils just for a short period no matter how long the brakes are applied?

 

Like a 5 second timer? Long enough for them to function yet cuts off power when say at a stop light with brakes applied.

 

Not a bad idea... Gurus ?? watcha think ???

[Silverado6x6]

I happen to be the chief operations maintenance supervisor at a concrete batching facility, in summary I build control systems for computerized automated batching equipment, I have a Graingers catalog that has 12v timers, on, off delayed you name it but sometimes you can just use something off the shelf. Like the loader operators complained about having to physically get out of the bucket loader to manually depress buttons at a material hopper that directs the different material to different bins, so I bought a cheapo Radio Shack RC car, took out the receiver, connected it to some relays, connected the unit to a permanent power source and then left the 4 way transmitter alone, it stays in the loader, now they can start and stop the aggregate feed belt and changed the rotary feed chute from at least 20' away from the hopper.

My son at the time was 10 years old, got all upset when I gave him the empty shell of the Rc car, it tied a shoelace to it and pulled it around the house.

 

I am not a terribly good electronics person, I know more than most but it seems to me that should a person wish to keep their AD there should be an interval timer on it, I may just opt for a manual switch with a relay or even a slim pressure switch actually on the brake lever that you can use that opens a relay thus turning off the AD while using hand brake on an incline at a stop light.

 

Here is what I can use and get, actually this image is from Ebay, they have smaller ones but these are not heavy, I can wire these in my sleep. Here is the Ebay link, not my final choice but a start, yes the coil is supposed to be 12vdc for the control.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Timer-relay-H3Y-4-H3Y-250V-5A-60sec-60s-DC12V-12VDC-/370728168021?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item56511eea55

http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/t408/dingzaigu/mengdan%202/1-4-2.jpghttp://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/t408/dingzaigu/mengdan%202/1-2-7.jpg

[Silverado6x6]

Here is a simpler one, has two poles instead of the four pole I just posted and has a base, wiring it may involve going through the NO path then when energized the adjustable timer opens contacts, resets every time you apply brakes sending a control voltage, or its a timed delay to on, either way timed delay on or off its just a matter of wiring to the NO or NC path.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-12V-H3Y-2-Delay-Timer-Time-Relay-0-60-Second-12VDC-Base-/350682044369?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51a64757d1

 

http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/t408/dingzaigu/mengdan%202/1-1-7.jpgThis is a little bit clunky but is only a couple inches long and they weigh very little, the contacts will handle the load, the control coil uses very little power. So this is my version, there are semiconductor versions also on Ebay, after some research I may find a smaller more compact unit.