My starter relay kicked the bucket

[csdexter]

Well, the story is I finally managed to undo the screw that holds the left frame cover in place (rusty piece of crap -- on my shopping list), took the cover out and thought I'd remove the stuff around for cleaning, tidying and as an exercise in "find out where stuff is in good weather, you may need to do that again in the dark, under the pouring rain" :-)

 

Also, the positive lead from the battery was not seated properly when the PO last went in there. So, I removed the battery, the battery box and then started undoing the chunky leads from the starter relay (the relay wasn't seated in its proper place, on the side of the battery box. Yes, the PO was an idiot -- the bike was littered with evidence in that regard when I got it). When I undid the battery lead, a small flake of corroded ... stuff ... came off the terminal. Surprisingly the leads themselves, their ring terminals, the bolts and the matching nuts embedded into the relay were all sparkling clean.

 

I paid little attention to it and moved on. It was only when I finished and I started cleaning the relay that I noticed the relay is actually two parts: a very well made DC motor contactor (the chunky, epoxy potted cube into which the chunky leads are screwed in) and a ****ty fuse-and-terminal assembly. The flake was actually the positive ring terminal that was leading to the fuse. Turned the thing around and saw that the whole copper trace, including the fuse female terminals, was completely corroded. I have no idea how come it was still working up to now :-)

 

Long story short, I'm not going to buy a new starter relay because the relay is perfectly healthy. I'm going to replace the lame excuse for a main fuse holder with a small harness that contains the fuse (and makes it so much less of a ***** to replace if need be) and plugs into the OEM wiring loom and starter relay.

 

I'll keep the thread updated and as soon as needed parts arrive, I'll post pictures. I'm hereby releasing this idea into the public domain, anybody can use the information in this thread to manufacture a similar harness for themselves if they so wish.

 

Schematic follows (hi-res):

http://gallery.dexter.linux360.ro/d/11413-2/main-fuse-harness.png

 

More updates as I have them.

[csdexter]

If anyone is interested, here's how the built harness looks like (hi-res):

http://gallery.dexter.linux360.ro/d/11612-2/IMG_20130622_110642.jpg

 

I just mounted it on the bike today (credits to EasternBeaver for the parts, ComponentShop for the single-colour silicone wire and Towzatronics for the dual-colour wire) and it works like a charm.

 

Also, I've put the main fuse holder under the OEM fuse box, behind the left side cover (fits like it was meant to go there), which makes it a lot more accessible in case of emergency.

[ragtop69gs]

I also have an '01 I'll have to take a look at those terminals and see if I'm on borrowed time.

 

Great idea you had there.

[Rick Haywood]

I have been dealing with the same issue on mine for a couple of weeks so I am also relocating the main fuse. Stupid place to put it.

[dingy]

Attached are a couple of pictures of a main fuse failure that Tweety had last week. Fuse holder is from a VMax, same base configuration as a standard Yamaha relay.

 

Gary

[Carbon_One]

Relocating that main fuse is even more important if one has a Hannigan trike. The trikes body hangs over the plastic cover enough that its nearly impossible to get to and take off to access that fuse. I'll be relocating that fuse the next time I'm in there.

Larry

[csdexter]

Thanks for the encouragement :-)

 

If anybody's wondering how "before" looked like (or what to look for), here's some pictures. First, the back side of the OEM main fuse holder was all blue (hi-res):

http://gallery.dexter.linux360.ro/d/11433-2/IMG_20130611_224316.jpg

 

Second, one of the two redundant red wires carrying power to the rest of the bike was also broken at the terminal (same tell-tale blue salt) (hi-res):

http://gallery.dexter.linux360.ro/d/11487-2/IMG_20130615_190330.jpg

 

You can only see it in the high-resolution version of the first photo, but the metal trace was also broken when it goes downwards to become the female spade terminal. Also, one of the legs of the 30A fuse that used to be there was half-eaten too :-)

 

I have no scientific explanation for how come it was still working, but it did and I was lucky enough to discover it at my leisure, during regular maintenance and not on the road.

 

Ride safe!

[rougeray]

I have replaced the one on my 07 twice for the same reason. Tough place to work for fat fingers.

[csdexter]

Yes, it is a very crammed-up location. Would be a nightmare to have to change it on the road, even if only to swap the spare fuse with the active one.

 

The first thought that crossed my mind when I took the plastic cover away and saw it, was something like "OMG, I'm no gynecologist, this has to come out to a more convenient place!".

[Cougar]

:think:So what is the link to purchase one of these harnesses?

I am not seeing it

 

This takes the place or re-route the bad part?

 

Thanks,

Jeff

[csdexter]

I just posted the information in the hope that it will be useful to other people as well, without any commercial intent. Now that you mention it and if enough interest arises, I'd be OK with buying the raw materials myself, manufacturing something like a dozen harnesses and selling them to you for basically the price I paid for the parts + postage.

 

Being such a simple harness, I reckon charging for "my time and sweat" would encourage people to build one themselves instead of buying from me -- and I had no intention of getting rich out of this to start with

 

 

To answer your second question, the harness I built both replaces the prone-to-failure part (OEM main fuse holder) and relocates it from under the left frame plastic cover to under the side metal cover, on the same side. Also, the OEM fuse holder allowed you to keep a spare plugged in the left slot, my solution does not -- but there is an empty slot in the fuse box under the left side cover so you could very well use that instead.

 

I hope this answers your questions.

[Cougar]

Alrighty then.. I will take ONE please

 

Let me know when or if you do then and

how you want me to pay one day!

 

I am sure you will have more that want one.

 

Thanks for doing this if you decide to sell a few of them.

 

Thanks,

Jeff

 

-- I believe I can get to that spot from under the Trike. I was under that same area last week .

[csdexter]

A very optimistic estimate clocks in at about $20 for the version using normal power wire (i.e. the stiff version you probably have on your bike) and $25 for the version using silicone power wire (i.e. very flexible).

 

Also, the female terminals that connect to the starter relay coil will have to be dressed in (black) heatshrink instead of the nice-looking translucent sheaths because the sheath wall is too thick for two terminals + sheaths to fit side by side (found out the hard way, when installing mine). It works, but you have to massage them in and that's not the kind of customer experience I'd like to offer :-)

 

I'm also thinking about doing an ignition switch relay-assist harness -- currently working on mine, will post pictures as soon as it's done.

 

 

I'll update the thread when I've made a decision about offering the above for sale.

[djh3]

I like the ide of relocating the main fuse to somewhere a human can get to. I do have a couple of questions on the harness though. I looked at the wireing schematic and think I am looking at it right but still......

There is a 4 prong connector that goes in under the relay. 2 of those (the top I think) are jumpers more or less and feed the top of the fuse. On your harness I see 2 female spade connectors, I'm guessing these go to the relay as that is the only connections still in tack after my experience. It was like the outer "box" plastic deal broke loose from the relay. On your harness the black connector I'm missing where/what it goes to. See attachment please.

Edited September 18, 2013 by djh3

[csdexter]

Hi,

 

The black connector has a female housing with 4 male spades in it and is plugged into by the main harness of the bike. In plain English: the bike-side cable + connector that were plugged into the relay will now plug into that black connector.

 

The two female spades go onto the two remaining male spades on the relay, that feed its coil. The remaining ring terminal goes to battery positive, of course.

 

I tried to preserve the OEM colour coding so that assembly or further servicing will be even easier, which is why the two relay coil wires have the same colour code as in the bike's harness.

 

This is the main fuse harness on the bike, before routing the red wire to the battery (hi-res):

http://gallery.dexter.linux360.ro/d/11624-2/IMG_20130622_130329.jpg

 

This is, as promised, the ignition relay-assist harness the night before installation. In this picture, the black ground wire hasn't been attached yet (hi-res):

http://gallery.dexter.linux360.ro/d/11730-2/IMG_20130624_003836.jpg

 

Finally, this is the ignition relay-assist harness on the bike (hi-res):

http://gallery.dexter.linux360.ro/d/12181-2/IMG_20130711_235005.jpg

 

They were both installed about two months ago and I had no issues since.

Edited September 18, 2013 by csdexter
Added content

[djh3]

Hmm so the 4 prong oem plug goes into the part I didnt know about. Where would a fellow find a 4prong male side to fit the bike plug? I may have some plugs off old harness in the garage to salvage, but whether or not the baynets point the rite direction is another issue.

Whats your additional relay for there? If your relocating the main fuse whats its purpose?

[csdexter]

I got all the bike-specific connectors from Eastern Beaver. In particular, the 4-position male-.250"-spade-in-female-housing with locking hole (barb is on the male, on the bike harness) is from this page: (search for 4P250-CNA) http://www.easternbeaver.com/Main/Elec__Products/Connectors/250_Connectors/250_connectors.html

 

I am being so specific about the connector because you need the Yazaki type, in which the female housing has the female lock side and the male housing has the locking barb -- the Sumitomo type is reversed: female housing has the barb and the male housing has the hole. Scroll down further on that page and you'll see them: you need the black one.

 

 

The second harness is a different and separate thing from the first one. It bypasses the ignition switch with a relay so that the switch is only loaded with the relay's coil instead of the whole bike. Makes a difference in that your ignition switch won't get fried up over time, especially when you added extra electrical stuff to your bike.

 

The two harnesses I built can be used independently (one, second or both).

[djh3]

Ahhh OK thanks for clearfying. I have added relays to most extras I have added. First thing was the passing lights as the OEM set up melted the glass fuse holder. I added and Aux fuse box for rear light bar, side LED driving lights and a couple other things I dont remember right now.