alwrmcusn Posted May 27, 2013 #1 Posted May 27, 2013 This is just for info to any trikers out there. Saturday May 25th on a STAR chapter 424 ride to Little River Canyon near Fort Payne, AL I had a potential major problem with my trike. We stopped for soft drinks and comfort calls at a small mini-mart near Dogtown (that's what the lady behind the counter said). As we left my wife and I hear a clunk clunk sound. As we decelerated to turn onto the roadway we hear it again. I thought it might be a fender strut that was loose. About a 100 yds later we decelerated to turn onto another highway and we again heard it and I could feel an accompanying bump (very minor). I told a fellow rider we needed to stop and check it out. Fortunately there was an old unused service station almost directly across from the stop. We pulled in, I checked the fender struts and they were solid. I lay down and started looking under the bike and found the problem. The U-joint! Of the four bolts making the connection only one remained! It was about a turn and a half from being completely gone also. A fellow chapter rider came back and shortly afterward the rest of our chapter missed us and came back. Mr Bill, our chapter VP, took a look at the problem, said he could get us home. He rode to a nearby Lowes, got replacement bolts and shortly we had the trike ready for a test ride. The rest of the ride home was uneventful. I periodically check the bike as we all should, but I never even considered checking for that possibility! Hopefully the Hannigan warranty will replace the temporary bolts and we'll be ready for our next ride!
Marcarl Posted May 27, 2013 #2 Posted May 27, 2013 If that happened you might want to check the yoke out good, for wear. Those bolts might have been loose for some time and the cross might have been wearing into the yokes, you would then have a loose or un-balanced connection, where it should be tight and secure.
Carbon_One Posted May 27, 2013 #3 Posted May 27, 2013 Thanks for the heads up Alfred. I for one will torque check those bolts the next time I'm doing a pre-check of the bike. I know it's a rare problem as I can't think of anyone else who has experienced a loose drive shaft but then again it only takes a one time to ruin your day or even a trip. Glad you were able to get it temporarily fixed on the road and didn't lose the shaft entirely. Larry
alwrmcusn Posted May 27, 2013 Author #4 Posted May 27, 2013 Don't know if it really matters or not but there are only about 15K miles on the bike as a "trike". I believe the Hannigan warranty is two years. I'll be contacting the installer tomorrow to arrange a fix and a full check up.
alwrmcusn Posted May 27, 2013 Author #5 Posted May 27, 2013 If that happened you might want to check the yoke out good, for wear. Those bolts might have been loose for some time and the cross might have been wearing into the yokes, you would then have a loose or un-balanced connection, where it should be tight and secure. What do you mean "yoke"? I'm not very mechanical and I want to make sure I know what to tell them when I have it checked.
ragtop69gs Posted May 27, 2013 #6 Posted May 27, 2013 Was it the shaft from trans to rear end or from the rear end to the wheel hub ? Either way I'm glad you caught it before it fully detached. Thanks for the heads up on a potential problem.
Cougar Posted May 28, 2013 #7 Posted May 28, 2013 The Torque is 100 Foot Pounds on those bolts, I just ask Jim about this last week as I am under there getting ready to add the reverse. I took a wrench and I couldn't believe how easy it was to undo the bolts, it has been five years now. but why so loose? Anyways I am going to be checking them every year now. and all 4 bolts are still there.
Cougar Posted May 28, 2013 #8 Posted May 28, 2013 I am also thinking of using medium Loctite on those bolts as well when I add the reverse gear. having that yoke going back and forth could cause more movement on those bolts maybe?
Marcarl Posted May 28, 2013 #9 Posted May 28, 2013 What do you mean "yoke"? I'm not very mechanical and I want to make sure I know what to tell them when I have it checked. In a u-joint there are basically 3 parts. The cross,(or what ever it's called) sets into 2 yokes. The one yoke is part of the drive shaft, and the other part of the yoke is attached to the deferential. Usually the cross is bolted onto the one yoke with 2 flat u-bolts and these I think is what you are referring to coming loose. As they loosen the cross will be allowed to wiggle a bit and so wear out the yoke that it is inserted into. Often time mechanics will insert some shimming material into the yoke to tighten it back up again and so save the problem and expense of replacing the yoke,,, although it might work for some time, it's not something I would do, unless the parts are no longer available.
Marcarl Posted May 28, 2013 #11 Posted May 28, 2013 A few pics of the drive shafts. If that is the set-up, all my worries were in vain,,, just replacing the bolts should do it,,, but I would reconsider the 100ft lbs of torque,,,, seems a little hefty on those bolts, 35 to 50 would seem a better choice.
Cougar Posted May 28, 2013 #12 Posted May 28, 2013 I was also thinking the same thing as well. those bolts are so small. I don't want to break the head off of the bolt. We are talking about the 4 bolts that have the ridges on them correct ?
ragtop69gs Posted May 28, 2013 #13 Posted May 28, 2013 (edited) I was also thinking the same thing as well. those bolts are so small. I don't want to break the head off of the bolt. We are talking about the 4 bolts that have the ridges on them correct ? Not sure if these are the bolts Al had trouble with. Going to have to wait for him to confirm. Al said 4 bolts so I think he's talking about the carrier not at the u joint it;s self. Edited May 28, 2013 by ragtop69gs
Cougar Posted May 28, 2013 #14 Posted May 28, 2013 well mine where the U-Joint bolts that seemed to un-bolt very easy you couldn't undo them by hand. but if there supposed to be at 100 FT LBS I would think they would be kind of hard to wrench .
alwrmcusn Posted May 28, 2013 Author #15 Posted May 28, 2013 The bolts heads are (to me) odd looking. The heads have a more grooved surface than your usual 4 or 6 sided heads. You can clearly see them in both photos that Marcarl included. However neither of those two photos look exactly like the Hannigan kit on my bike. Those photos show a mount/brace that the shaft passes through. My Hannigan does not have that, the shaft itself goes to the differential without a brace. Is that a different maker trike kit in the photos? I have an appointment to take it to Sevierville, TN to the installer on Thursday. Hopefully I will get him to show/tell me of the things I need to keep check on in the future. I'm guessing a torque wrench purchase may be in my future. The one I have is 40+ years old!
Cougar Posted May 28, 2013 #16 Posted May 28, 2013 Yup, your talking about losing the bolts next to the cruise control censor, mine are the same , they un-bolted very easy for me. my next post will show my pic as mine is up in the air right now I will go out and take a shot for you.
Cougar Posted May 28, 2013 #17 Posted May 28, 2013 (edited) This is from a 5 year old Hannigan Build. [ATTACH]76969[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]76970[/ATTACH] Really am not sure why you don't have that brace. very odd. that brace is welded to the frame. mine was not built by The Hannigan shop. ask Jim Gooch Edited May 28, 2013 by Cougar
Monty Posted May 28, 2013 #18 Posted May 28, 2013 Glad you caught it just in time. By the way, Carl, the "cross" is the actual u-joint.
Marcarl Posted May 28, 2013 #19 Posted May 28, 2013 Glad you caught it just in time. By the way, Carl, the "cross" is the actual u-joint. Wow, the things I get to learn from this site, wonder why I ever went to school, should have just got my edumacation here. Thanks Monty!
Monty Posted May 28, 2013 #20 Posted May 28, 2013 Don't know why, because it looks nothing like a "u". That's just how it's always been...lol.
Marcarl Posted May 28, 2013 #21 Posted May 28, 2013 Don't know why, because it looks nothing like a "u". That's just how it's always been...lol. I know I know,,,,, but you look like you as well, but still you have different parts with different names,, but I guess maybe you don't have any joints, and maybe now I'm edumacated. Now if you don't have any joints, u could be kind of stiff, or maybe sloppy, but it would be a 'y'oke either way.
ragtop69gs Posted May 29, 2013 #23 Posted May 29, 2013 Al, that is my wifes trike and it is a 2010 hannigan , same as yours. Yours is setup exactly like the pictures I posted, get under it and have a better look.
alwrmcusn Posted May 29, 2013 Author #24 Posted May 29, 2013 ragtop69gs......You are indeed correct! I just went out and snapped a few photos of the underneath. There is that brace/pass through. I was remembering the longer silver sleeve that the shaft runs through to the differential. Also the bolts seem to be firmly seated so I should be safe riding it 87 miles to Sevierville tomorrow. I do want to get the proper bolts installed. The quick fix replacements were too long and we had to use two lock washers on each one. I will be asking him to use Loctite (blue/medium ??) when he replaces the bolts. I want to thank each of you for your replies and help, this site is for sure well worth the cost of admission. I just renewed for two years, $$ well spent!
alwrmcusn Posted May 29, 2013 Author #25 Posted May 29, 2013 Oh, just for info for those who are unaware....it's a U-joint for "universal" joint, meaning it can function in a very wide circle of positions. But also both pieces also have a rather U shape to them. I asked a mechanic friend and that is the explanation he gave. Well almost, he's a rather long winded individual, so I shortened the description somewhat
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