Hvac Help

[Dooder1]

This last big storm we had our power went off and on like 10 times with in 5 minutes. After that my a/c quit working. I have a Arcoaire YJ High Efficient Heat Pump 4ton. The service tech said that the deice board was bad, a capacitor was bad and my compressor was froze up. He told me that the whole unit needed to be replaced at the tune of 3900 bucks. First off can all these parts be replaced. Second can all these parts all fail at the same time if I didnt have all those power surges within that short time. The reason I ask is if the power surges caused this my home owners ins. will cover it. If they just failed then they wont.

 

Thanks for any help

John

[Guest tx2sturgis]

That's definitely a power-surge related failure.

 

The board got hit with some electrical spikes, and probably with the start-stop actions on the compressor and blower motor, it and the start capacitor are history.

All the proof you will need is the repair technicians estimate, with a note saying it looks like a power surge caused it.

 

Call your agent. They should make this right....on the other hand, 2 serious claims in a year could have you paying higher rates later on.

 

 

 

Up to you.

 

 

http://www.peppercoin.com/200808/how-your-claims-history-affects-your-home-insurance-costs/

 

https://www.goinsurancerates.com/home-insurance/multiple-claims-flagged-high-risk/

Edited May 24, 2013 by tx2sturgis

[uncledj]

I'd get a second opinion.

Wish I lived out your way....I'd stop by and take a look.

 

In any case, if the system was working fine until the power issue, I really don't see it having any effect on the defrost board. The compressor probably tripped on thermal overload trying to restart so quickly so many times, and the added load may have fried the capacitor, but capacitors are cheap, and I'd want to know that the compressor wouldn't start after it had a chance to cool down, with a good capacitor and contactor before I'd be willing to change it out.

Keep in mind there's a lot of outfits out there that'll try like heck to sell you a new system, rather than make simple repairs to get the existing system going. I hate to admit it, 'cause it makes all us HVAC guys look like crooks, but, truth be told, there's a lot of them out there. (I'm proud to say I'm no crook)....sounds like Richard M Nixon right before he left office. LOL.

 

Anyhoo, I'd get a second opinion. You'll often get the most honest response from a tech who's moonlighting the service call, and not pressured by his/her employer to sell you a new unit.

More than half the time I'm asked for a second opinion, it conflicts with the first opinion, in the customers favor.

Feel free to contact me if you think I can help.

Best of luck.

[CaptainJoe]

I'm no hvac guy, but for a $12 start capactor and $20 contactor it would be cheap enough to swap out.

 

 

Just make sure powers off and the capacitor is physically shorted out with your screwdriver before you remove the three wires...

 

Plus, if it doesn't work, you'll have spares for your new AC...

[GolfVenture]

Ya, a tree got hit by lighting which was about 40 feet from my house in July on 2012. I was in Vacaville healing from my m/c accident so I wasn't around. Knocked power out at the house. Neighbor came and check the house, said all seemed to be fine. Well when I got home in August I discovered some issues that the neighbor would reasonably have missed.

 

1) The garage main breaker was not checked so my freezer stunk pretty bad.

A friend cleaned it and the insurance co paid for the labor to clean about 2 hours.

2) Garage Door opener was toast. Got new opener installed.

3) The Direct TV wireless phone thing-ma-jig was toast. I found one on ebay and they paid for it plus 1 hour trouble shoot for labor.

4) Electric Fire Place no longer worked. I did some trouble shooting and determined that the remote receiver at the fireplace was hit. Found one on ebay. Ins paid for it plus 2 hours of labor.

5) Hot tub was hit. Found the water level about 2/3 down. New electricial boards, new plumbing for all the fittings were warped. Guess it heated the water way too hot.

6) Found my 89VR battery dead. The maintainer was hit as a result the battery went dead. Got new battery maintainer and a new AGM battery to boot.

7) My wife's nose is very keen and did not like the smell of the cleaned out freezer. ins got us a new freezer.

8) The lighting hit the tree about 20 feet down then it swirled bark and wood off the tree in a swirl pattern as it approached the ground, leaving the the top 20 feet percarously still there. tree needed to come down plus the one in front for it was in thw way. A friend of mine is a logger and he took both down. Insurance allowed $800.00 for that.

9) I had $1000.00 deductible, but all the labor from friend and myself more that paid enough for the deductible.

 

Power surges are unpredictable and so the ins company should rule in your favor. Just get a statement from the vendor saying that the surge was the cause.

[dacheedah]

Im in on replacing the capacitor. I put a whole house serge suppressor in, it takes 2 50a breakers and connects to your main panel. If you are hit with a serge it is supposed to protect the house.

[Dooder1]

I'm no hvac guy, but for a $12 start capactor and $20 contactor it would be cheap enough to swap out.

 

 

Just make sure powers off and the capacitor is physically shorted out with your screwdriver before you remove the three wires...

 

Plus, if it doesn't work, you'll have spares for your new AC...

 

The service tech installed a new capacitor. Then when he tried to fire up the compressor the amp draw climbed sky high and popped my breaker at the electric panel. So he claimed the the compressor was shot.

[uncledj]

I'm sure he'd have taken a gander at the contactor to make sure it wasn't burnt/ overloaded, and I'd hope he'd at least taken a continuity reading to be sure he has good contact through the compressor terminals. (often rusted)

If not, the compressor may be trying to start without the start circuit..

If all otherwise seems well, he can install a hard start kit, but after reading through the thread, it sounds like you may be able to get a new system paid for by insurance, so I don't want you to discourage you from that, although be aware they'll likely have to replace the indoor coil as well, as R22 and even dry shipped units are becoming hard to find.

I typically make all reasonable effort to get a compressor to start before I condemn them, but I rarely work on single phase equipment, which requires more consideration for starting than three phase.

Let us know what ya end up doing.

Best of luck:080402gudl_prv:

[Miles]

John, were you at home when all of this electrical tripping was going on ?????

 

If you were...did it occur to you to switch off your main circuits on the panel after the first or second time that the power went off ?????

 

 

[Dooder1]

John, were you at home when all of this electrical tripping was going on ?????

 

If you were...did it occur to you to switch off your main circuits on the panel after the first or second time that the power went off ?????

 

 

Nope I was in TN with you my wife was home by her self.

 

John

[Guest tx2sturgis]

John, were you at home when all of this electrical tripping was going on ?????

 

If you were...did it occur to you to switch off your main circuits on the panel after the first or second time that the power went off ?????

 

 

 

 

I have to say Miles, this wouldnt be a good idea for ANYONE.

 

I'm not going NEAR the main house breaker panel during a severe electrical storm with the house power fluctuating and lightning strikes anywhere within say, 10 miles of your location.

 

I'd rather fix or replace things later than possibly get zapped and end up as a toasted, melted, smoking, marshmallow!

 

[LilBeaver]

I have to say Miles, this wouldnt be a good idea for ANYONE.

 

I'm not going NEAR the main house breaker panel during a severe electrical storm with the house power fluctuating and lightning strikes anywhere within say, 10 miles of your location.

 

I'd rather fix or replace things later than possibly get zapped and end up as a toasted, melted, smoking, marshmallow!

 

 

Well - Not all places are cool like Texas and put the fuse boxes OUTSIDE the residence...

Although during big storms, if there is any hint of a power surge, I do usually make sure things like the furnace/AC, refrigerator, computers, etc are switched off and/or unplugged BUT that does not do you any good if you are not home for the zap fest.

[Guest tx2sturgis]

Well - Not all places are cool like Texas and put the fuse boxes OUTSIDE the residence...

Although during big storms, if there is any hint of a power surge, I do usually make sure things like the furnace/AC, refrigerator, computers, etc are switched off and/or unplugged BUT that does not do you any good if you are not home for the zap fest.

 

Well, at this old house, the panel is in a closet...but still, with millions of volts in the vicinity just looking for a soft vertical target...its not gonna be me!

 

I have never unplugged anything, assuming I'm here. I will turn off the computer if the power fluctuations and brownouts begin to disrupt things...mainly as a data saving measure. In 20 years in this house, the only thing that ever got zapped was a Pioneer stereo reciever and the cassette deck hooked up to it...this was about 15 years ago.

 

Keep in mind, I have a 50 foot tower *slash* lightning rod for my ham radio activities...so when I leave town I DO switch that high-dollar transceiver to ground on the antenna switch..and the tower is well grounded. Still, if lightning can jump 2000 feet thru AIR...is simply wont be stopped by the 1/2 inch gap in a circuit breaker thats been switched 'off'. Or a power switch on a TV. Most modern electronics, especially with a remote, are powered all the time anyway...even when turned off.

 

Many years ago, some friends of mine had a CB antenna on a chimney mount, and no grounding at all. When lightning made a direct hit on the antenna, everything on that side of the house got fried, melted, scorched. Here's the kicker: The wall of the house, at the end where the radio and antenna were, SEPERATED from the house about an inch! All the nails acted like exploding bolts and we figure there may have been some water seepage in the wall that instantly vaporized, causing the huge BANG!

 

Yeah...its a force that will not be deterred by flipping a breaker. If your location is the target, then there is not a lot you can do, during a direct hit.

 

Just ask Benjamin Franklin!...oh wait...he's dead....

 

 

 

[LilBeaver]

[...]The board got hit with some electrical spikes, and probably with the start-stop actions on the compressor and blower motor, it and the start capacitor are history.

[...]

 

Well, at this old house, the panel is in a closet...but still, with millions of volts in the vicinity just looking for a soft vertical target...its not gonna be me!

 

I have never unplugged anything, assuming I'm here. I will turn off the computer if the power fluctuations and brownouts begin to disrupt things...mainly as a data saving measure. In 20 years in this house, the only thing that ever got zapped was a Pioneer stereo reciever and the cassette deck hooked up to it...this was about 15 years ago.

 

Keep in mind, I have a 50 foot tower *slash* lightning rod for my ham radio activities...so when I leave town I DO switch that high-dollar transceiver to ground on the antenna switch..and the tower is well grounded. Still, if lightning can jump 2000 feet thru AIR...is simply wont be stopped by the 1/2 inch gap in a circuit breaker thats been switched 'off'. Or a power switch on a TV. Most modern electronics, especially with a remote, are powered all the time anyway...even when turned off.

 

Many years ago, some friends of mine had a CB antenna on a chimney mount, and no grounding at all. When lightning made a direct hit on the antenna, everything on that side of the house got fried, melted, scorched. Here's the kicker: The wall of the house, at the end where the radio and antenna were, SEPERATED from the house about an inch! All the nails acted like exploding bolts and we figure there may have been some water seepage in the wall that instantly vaporized, causing the huge BANG!

 

Yeah...its a force that will not be deterred by flipping a breaker. If your location is the target, then there is not a lot you can do, during a direct hit.

 

Just ask Benjamin Franklin!...oh wait...he's dead....

 

 

 

Ha - Lucky you having a panel INSIDE the house. I thin it is the silliest thing to have the panel outside for safety during electrical issues AND home/homeowner safety... but that is a different thing all together.

 

You are absolutely right in that a direct hit (especially with the positive lightning we have here on the higher-altitudes plains opposed to the standard negative lighting that occurs most other places) anything in the way is beyond a 'crispy critter'. No amount of butter will save that toast.

 

What I was referring to about unplugging things has more to do with minimizing damage due to power surges, brown outs, flickers etc from fluctuations in the grid caused by the nearby electrical storm. Since many modern devices are still 'powered up' when in 'standby', those are the ones that I would say are best to unplug since turning them 'off' is not physically disconnecting the power. For the things like furnace, I flip that off [sometimes] since it automatically cycles when regaining power -- to minimize the number of times it cycles and to hopefully avoid any issues by rapid power-cycling. I do not usually flip the breaker to my refrigerator/freezer but I do have it plugged into a high quality single surge protector that would hopefully help prevent some of those minor fluctuations from killing it (again, rapid power cycling due to rapid loss and regaining of power will not be saved by a surge protector but physically disconnecting the power will keep it from cycling).

If I am actually home and there are more than two power flickers, I do usually unplug the fridge until the storm passes to avoid any unnecessary power cycling of the unit itself.

Last summer, we had a really bad storm that killed some computers in my lab [the only ones that were not plugged into an UPS] and our building was not hit directly, but the fluctuations in the grid reek havoc on the electronics.

 

Very low probability but rather high impact... especially with a lab full of high dollar electronics or a house with a few thousand worth of appliances and devices... Cheap security if you ask me.

If my house gets a direct hit, I have a lot more to worry about than my fridge and some electronics... such as putting out the fire and structural damage.

[tazmocycle]

did you get your a/c fixed yet? if you can, get a new ditigal t-stat, they have a 5 minute time delay bilt into them so if power blink, it has to wait 5 minutes before it stats back up. always get at less 2 bids to keep folks honest. most will lower the price if you tell them you are getting a second quote they even drop the first price. also check with BBB to see if there's any compaints against them. I can check on price tomorrow to see what I can get one for. I just put in a 4 ton 14seer hp with coil and 95% variable speed furnace for $5600. that was with new tubing and $200 t-stat to control it properly. if the ins co will pay you, I can problly come over this weekend and put it in. if your system is 8 or more yrs old, it's problly better to replace the unit, most times after a bad hit the Freon system need to be cleaned before putting in new, the acids formed in it can cause trouble on your new system. my cell # is in my profile if you need to call me for any advice.