Auto AWD Tire ?

[GolfVenture]

My sone has a Subaru AWD. On a trip one of his tires went bad. With the spare he rolled into the nearest Les Schwab Tire Center and requested a new tire.

 

They would not sell him just a new tire but would only put on 4 new Tires. They said that with an AWD Vehicle that having 3 tires at 50% and 1 new at 100% that it could do damage to the tranmission.

 

Is this true or just a sales pitch..?

[jfoster]

Sales pitch! I'd have to ask him to look at owners manual and see what the mfd recommends. Either way why would a tire dealer care, its not a safety risk.

[pmelah]

sales pitch Brian they can change one tire and put it on the rear passanger side i use to deal with tires but i would recomend 2 tires for the rear (since its AWD) rear wheel drive and put new on front for front wheel drive for tracktion purposes almost all reputable tire shops have that posted in the lobby by the cashier stand here on the MS coast

[t_hole]

I think the Subaru manual addresses this and states something along the lines that yes, all 4 tires should be replaced in this situation. The AWD system spins the wheels at the same rate so that it knows that when 1 or more wheels are spinning faster, they are slipping and the transfer case engages to re-direct power. Replacing 1 tire throws this out of sync and can overwork the xfer case. A cheaper option might be to find 4 used tires or to have the new tire shaved down to the approximate diameter of the other 3.

[Miles]

Brian, I do not know why you do not come directly to ME to ask these questions about Subarus. I have told you time and again, I am a Subaru Guru.

 

The "correct" answer is that this is NOT a sales pitch. The Les Schwab store was in fact...correct... to tell you that. It is more of a problem if it is the 4EAT trans, the auto trans, than the manual trans. But it will also affect the manual trans too. Since Subaru makes 95 % of thier cars with an auto trans, and only 5 % with a manual trans, they give serious warning about replacing one new tire, when the other 3 tires are 50 % worn.

 

For those wackadoos that think this is just a sales pitch by the tire dealer...I say...stick to your KIAs and Hyundais, and leave the Subarus to the Gurus:rotf: Subarus don't even belong in Louisiana or Mississippi, because they are designed to be driven in snow country, above sea level, and on twisty roads, which there is none of in those two states.

 

 

[Trader]

On my own Jimmy the tire guy told me I should not only change all four at once....but that I should ensure they are all from the same batch.

 

He said there could be minor variations between molds and the diameter could be slightly different.

 

He told me unless the tires were matched I should not ever use bull low on pavement or risk damage.

[oldfaithful]

My gut reaction was to agree...sales pitch! But the more I thougt about it the more I began to agree with Miles.

 

I happen to be in the market for a Subaru AWD right now, so I've joined the NASIOC forum and have been doing research on there for a while. It also helps that a friend at work is a Subaru fanatic and he's been singing their praises for years. Anyway, I just searched that forum for an answer to this question and found the following "common knowledge":

 

When you get a flat, buy a new tire of the same make and have it shaved down x/32nds (the aveage of the rest). Subarus can handle up to a 2/32nds difference between tires. Be sure to measure across the width of the thread pattern for an average. Most good shops, including the Tire Rack, will shave a new tire to match your other 3.

 

I found several examples of forum members that had mixed their tires and burned up the differentials. Turns out this exercise was educational for me too!

[Flyinfool]

:sign yeah that:

 

This also applies to the Murcury Mountaineer AWD. But at least the merc can handle up to 4 32nds difference.

[Power Trippin]

It's the same with GM vehicles. AWD OR 4WD, can't have more than 2/32" tread difference or it will eventually turn your transfer case into a rock grinder!

[pmelah]

ok i was wrong i asked a friend that is still in the tire buss. and he said yes all 4 have to be changed its not a sales pitch and you can ruin the trans on an AWD vehicle quick and that gets very exensive to fix

[kevin-vic-b.c.]

Any 4wd or 4x4 should always have all 4 tires changed at the same time.

The Egyptians most likely measured the Pyramids with a wheel, imagine if the guy the measured the opposite side had a worn wheel when he measured.....

 

 

[Miles]

Brian, the end result in this discussion is two fold...# 1 - most folks agree that you do in fact need to have 4 matching tires on that Subaru, rather than one new one, and 3 tires thast are half worn. And # 2 - if you look at the states or provinces of those that have made posts on this subject, it shows that people that live NORTH of the 36th parallel know what they are talking about when it comes to AWD cars, like the Subaru, but those that live SOUTH of the 36th parallel are used to driving their flat-bottomed skim boats through the swamps, and are not really familiar with what an AWD car is.

 

Now, ask them about a real 4WD mud-bogger, and yes siree, they can recite rhyme and verse about seeing cousin billy bob down at the mud bogs flinging bugger mud at all 'dem spectators. Down there they just calls 'em...'taters.

 

 

[Guest tx2sturgis]

I have told you time and again, I am a Subaru Guru.

 

 

 

For those wackadoos that think this is just a sales pitch by the tire dealer...I say...stick to your KIAs and Hyundais, and leave the Subarus to the Gurus

 

'wackadoos'

 

Hey every now and then, you remind me of me....you 'know-it-all'!

 

 

Yeah seriously, I'm in the camp that you always need to match the drive tire diameters as close as possible on any vehicle.

 

On a 2WD, that means 2 tires, and on 4WD, or AWD, that means 4 tires that need to be all about the same diameter.

 

He could have looked for a used tire dealer, and might have had good luck, or not.

On the typical over-the-road 18 wheeler, we generally try to match the diameters of all 8 drive tires...if a new one has to be purchased on the road, we will run it until the rig is back on home turf where a used tire with the same diameter and tread depth can be put in that position. The almost new tire is then rotated into the shop's inventory of 'used' tires. (tires at $300-$500 are cheap compared to a drivetrain rebuild on a truck)

 

Of course, all 8 drive tires are not normally engaged on dry pavement, but the technical reason is that you dont want wheels on the same driven axle turning at different speeds for an extended time...(mismatched duals is not good either!)...and its not good for the components in the differentials, or on any vehicle with ABS or electronic traction control. The newer OTR tractors have those features too.

 

The tire dealer there is under a liability, like a doctor, to 'do no harm'...they would rather turn a customer away than get a multi-thousand dollar claim for damages, or worse, an accident. With the legal system they way it is, you never know.

 

All this doesnt help your boy on the road, but it might keep him from damaging the vehicle, if nothing else.

 

My .

Edited April 24, 2013 by tx2sturgis

[pmelah]

oh now i read every bodies response and Miles you dont see to many of those AWD vehicles here but:no-no-no::no-no-no: we do have mountians here in LA and MS :stirthepot::stirthepot:they go up 5 ft down 4 1/2 up7 ft and back down 3 1/2 and dont bother tryin to convince them that those are just ant hills or small speed bumps i already tried i even showed a friend:shock3: the cabbage patch:shock3:, snequalimy pass:shock3::shock3:, and donner summit:shock3: it did not work:no-no-no::rotf: oh and a fyi im originaly from reading, CA :whistling:so i do know what a mountian is:bluesbrother: and i do so miss them

[pmelah]

and i never said i was an expert:whistling:..... just sayin

shade tree :stirthepot:

[Flyinfool]

I also know from experience that if you really want just one new tire, there are plenty of tire dealers that will love to make the sale and don't give a rip about the health of your car.

 

I am constantly amazed at how many front wheel drive cars I see riding around with the tiny space saver spare on the front, for weeks at a time, then complain when the trans-axle goes out.

[Miles]

oh and a fyi im originaly from reading, CA :whistling:so i do know what a mountian is:bluesbrother: and i do so miss them

 

 

Paul, did you mean to say...Reading, Pennsylvania, or...Redding, California.

 

Like Brian (tx2sturgis) said, I am a know it all, so don't try to mess with me when it comes to geography and town names.

 

[Miles]

I also know from experience that if you really want just one new tire, there are plenty of tire dealers that will love to make the sale and don't give a rip about the health of your car.

 

I am constantly amazed at how many front wheel drive cars I see riding around with the tiny space saver spare on the front, for weeks at a time, then complain when the trans-axle goes out.

 

Jeff, you are 100 % correct on that. It really bugs me too, as a gearhead, to see the tiny space saver spare on the front...rather than on the back...of a front wheel drive car. Take a couple extra minutes and change those tires around...for safety sake.

 

It really makes sense to find out wherre the USED tire stores are in your area. This is one example...Brians' (golf&venture) son could have found a used tire to be oput on there, if he wasn't able to get 4 new ones. Another example...last year I sold my '65 Ford F-250, and bought a '85 Dodge D350 1 ton, dually...to use as my hay hauler. This truck has the old 16.5 " wheels on it, and today it is difficult to find 16.5" tires for a lower price. They can be ordered, but they will cost you a lot, and this old truck...is a hay hauler, so you get the picture.

 

My local Les Schwab store, that I buy a lot of tires from, told me to go over to Rodriquez tire in Olympia, which is a used tire store, and see if they have any. Well lucky me, they had 4 brand new takeoffs from a Dodge D3500 that someone wanted to install chrome wheels and larger tires, so these 4 new 16.5 " tires had less than 50 miles on them. I got them mounted, balanced, and installed for a total of $ 225.00...that is for all 4.

I already had 2 very good tires on this truck, so it was js a matter of placing them all in the right place.

 

Find you local USED tire store, and get to know them...for instances like this.

 

As Forrest Gump used to say...you never know what you're gonna get .

 

Edited April 25, 2013 by Miles

[dacheedah]

I will go on record as suggesting you DONT put Avon's on that Subaru and do use the synthetic 15wt blinker fluid

[wideopenrod]

Who cares about the tires! Does the tape player work?

 

:rotf::rotf::rotf::rotf::rotf::rotf:

[GolfVenture]

Brian, I do not know why you do not come directly to ME to ask these questions about Subarus. I have told you time and again, I am a Subaru Guru.

 

The "correct" answer is that this is NOT a sales pitch. The Les Schwab store was in fact...correct... to tell you that. It is more of a problem if it is the 4EAT trans, the auto trans, than the manual trans. But it will also affect the manual trans too. Since Subaru makes 95 % of thier cars with an auto trans, and only 5 % with a manual trans, they give serious warning about replacing one new tire, when the other 3 tires are 50 % worn.

 

For those wackadoos that think this is just a sales pitch by the tire dealer...I say...stick to your KIAs and Hyundais, and leave the Subarus to the Gurus:rotf: Subarus don't even belong in Louisiana or Mississippi, because they are designed to be driven in snow country, above sea level, and on twisty roads, which there is none of in those two states.

 

 

 

 

Ya...You probably did tell me that your are a Subaru Guru about a year ago. Since then I recently had a birthday (60 + ?) and with each new birthday one is allowed to forget some facts.

 

You just happen to be the lucky person.

 

Next year you may have to remind me your name...Kilometer

[jfoster]

Brian, I do not know why you do not come directly to ME to ask these questions about Subarus. I have told you time and again, I am a Subaru Guru.

 

The "correct" answer is that this is NOT a sales pitch. The Les Schwab store was in fact...correct... to tell you that. It is more of a problem if it is the 4EAT trans, the auto trans, than the manual trans. But it will also affect the manual trans too. Since Subaru makes 95 % of thier cars with an auto trans, and only 5 % with a manual trans, they give serious warning about replacing one new tire, when the other 3 tires are 50 % worn.

 

For those wackadoos that think this is just a sales pitch by the tire dealer...I say...stick to your KIAs and Hyundais, and leave the Subarus to the Gurus:rotf: Subarus don't even belong in Louisiana or Mississippi, because they are designed to be driven in snow country, above sea level, and on twisty roads, which there is none of in those two states.

 

 

 

Sorry, but I still think it's a sales pitch. If I want to buy one tire and you tell me you cant because the mfd suggestes different. Unless I'm asking them to do something unsafe then who cares, and as long as they inform the buyer that it could result in drivetrain damage then they've passed the liablity onto the customer. I'm not arguing about what the mfd suggests, but the fact that the

dealer is using that as an excuse to persuade someone to buy four NEW tires is a sales pitch to me.

Edited April 25, 2013 by jfoster

[wrenchrob]

I recently worked on a Ford Explorer AWD and it had 4 tires the same size with tread depths the same. The front 2 were different manufacturers than the rear. There was quite a difference in tire circumferences. The front differential was extremely hot and litterly starting to smoke the oil in it. After replacing the 4 tires with 4 new all the same manufacturer the front diff was no longer overheating. If you have a 4WD that the front axles will disengage there is no problem using different circumference rubbers.

[Miles]

Sorry, but I still think it's a sales pitch. If I want to buy one tire and you tell me you cant because the mfd suggestes different. Unless I'm asking them to do something unsafe then who cares, and as long as they inform the buyer that it could result in drivetrain damage then they've passed the liablity onto the customer. I'm not arguing about what the mfd suggests, but the fact that the

dealer is using that as an excuse to persuade someone to buy four NEW tires is a sales pitch to me.

 

 

I believe that if you knew the Les Schwab tire stores here in the Pacific Northwest, their history, and their quality of customer service, you would see this in a different light. This company, founded by Les Schwab in 1952, in Oregon, is the # 1 tire store company in the western states, for a darn good reason...and it is all about customer service.

 

They did not push Brian's son to buy four tires. They said they would not sell him one brand new tire on an AWD Subaru that had 3 tires that were already worn 50%. In the end, they would rather lose a sale, than to do something that is in fact wrong for the vehicle. Subaru's are a big deal in the Pacific Northwest. They sell up here like cajun shrimp sell down in Louisiana.

 

Being a Subaru Guru myself, I have offered this exact same advice to many people over the years, and those people that really do know me, and know who I am, also know that I am a very serious consumer advocate when it comes to vehicles of any kind, and not a person that would deliver a sales pitch.

 

Now, I hear that the London Bridge is tired of being in Arizona, and would like to find a good home in Louisiana...want a bridge to get across the swamp ?