What does a fried stator look like?

[Guest Swifty]

When I replaced my stator the first time a couple of years ago it wasn't necessarily because the stator wasn't working; I was just interesting in preventing a possible failure and having more output. Last year Wizard and Carl et al remember me turning around at Fort Erie when my volt gauge went flat. Now that I've opened it up I see this. Is this black crud on half of the coils mean it is fried?

[bongobobny]

Uhhh, yes it does! Looks like the entire segment got shorted out. Now for the technical info. The stator is configured in a "Y" arrangement. That means there are 3 windings or segments that all have one end tied together. From what I see in the picture it looks like it drew a lot of current and melted the varnish on the wire...

 

Edit - Two of the areas on the other segment look like the varnish was heat scortched but not fried like the others.

[Guest Swifty]

So is there something I need to look for to prevent this from happening as soon as I put in the new one? That one had 30,000 miles on it.

[mother]

sorry i missed the barbeque

 

i still have original stator in mine with over 200,000 on it

 

years ago i went to hid headlight, 35 watt draw instead of 55/60 watt original. HID is the way to go, wow factor doing night time driving.

the HID system is an simple install, plug and play, ground wire install and hot to battery.

then the white light on dash stays on.

to remedy this, there are three jumper wires to install on reserve light relay behind headlight and two coils in the instrument guages that need to be jumpered. i can help you with that.

 

get the stator in and go HID

 

this is where i bought my HID system, fast delivery:

 

http://canadiancruisercustomizing.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=3

 

cheers, Scott

[OB-1]

sorry i missed the barbeque

 

i still have original stator in mine with over 200,000 on it

 

years ago i went to hid headlight, 35 watt draw instead of 55/60 watt original. HID is the way to go, wow factor doing night time driving.

the HID system is an simple install, plug and play, ground wire install and hot to battery.

then the white light on dash stays on.

to remedy this, there are three jumper wires to install on reserve light relay behind headlight and two coils in the instrument guages that need to be jumpered. i can help you with that.

 

get the stator in and go HID

 

this is where i bought my HID system, fast delivery:

 

http://canadiancruisercustomizing.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=3

 

cheers, Scott

 

It would be nice if your "fix" was the reason for the longevity of your stator, but it isn't. The stator windings in our bikes are always at maximum current output due to the design of the regulator. The voltage regulator controls the DC system voltage by dissipating the energy above the regulation point as heat, (it shunts the power above the regulation voltage to ground). This is why the regulator looks like a heat sink. Another way to think of the voltage regulator is as a controlled short to ground. As the voltage exceeds the regulation point the regulator begins shorting this power to ground clamping the DC system voltage to the value of the regulation point.

[MiCarl]

It would be nice if your "fix" was the reason for the longevity of your stator, but it isn't. The stator windings in our bikes are always at maximum current output due to the design of the regulator. The voltage regulator controls the DC system voltage by dissipating the energy above the regulation point as heat, (it shunts the power above the regulation voltage to ground). This is why the regulator looks like a heat sink. Another way to think of the voltage regulator is as a controlled short to ground. As the voltage exceeds the regulation point the regulator begins shorting this power to ground clamping the DC system voltage to the value of the regulation point.

 

It's always running at maximum output. If the insulation breaks down it'll burn up. Nothing you can do about it.

[ChurchBuilder]

When I replaced my stator I cut the plastic connector put and soldered the wires together. I was suspicious that the plastic connector getting a bad connection caused my stator to fail.

[Peder_y2k]

I replaced the plastic push connecter with a block terminal, and fitted ring terminals to the wires for connection at the terminal.

Actually, I think the biggest issue is using the bike with a weak battery, as the alternator stator is working harder to charge a bad battery, plus power all the electrics..... to much current of a lengthy time. Things get hot with higher current flow, especially where there is any resistance, like poor connections or sulfated battery.

-Pete, in Tacoma WA USA

'83,88

[OB-1]

I replaced the plastic push connecter with a block terminal, and fitted ring terminals to the wires for connection at the terminal.

Actually, I think the biggest issue is using the bike with a weak battery, as the alternator stator is working harder to charge a bad battery, plus power all the electrics..... to much current of a lengthy time. Things get hot with higher current flow, especially where there is any resistance, like poor connections or sulfated battery.

-Pete, in Tacoma WA USA

'83,88

 

I think you missed my post. The stator windings in our bikes are always operating at 100% current. This is true even if the load on the DC system was zero. Improving the connections, while a good idea, does nothing to increase the life of the stator.

 

There really isn't anything we can do to increase the life of the stator short of redesigning the whole charging system or installing series current limiting resisters which would further reduce the pitifully low output of our charging system.

 

The stator windings fail due to a breakdown of the insulation in the winding.

[Guest Swifty]

I got rid of the plastic connector with the instal of the PREVIOUS stator.

So am I just putting in the next one and go?

[muffinman]

Swifty not all that Ob-1 says is the reason your stator looks the way it does after pulling my first one out of the blonde looking pretty much like yours does now I asked my dealer and he said it's because the bike idled alot and rode at slow speeds alot the bike did alot of 25 mph riding on the base my second looked nothing like that 40k later all highway miles.Make sure the oil hole in the center of the magnet assembly is open

 

 

 

 

Jeff.

[dingy]

I think you missed my post. The stator windings in our bikes are always operating at 100% current. This is true even if the load on the DC system was zero.

 

I do not agree with this statement.

 

The output of a generator is RPM dependent. This is due to the flywheel magnets being other half of the generator system. The faster the magnets pass the coils the higher the output current.

 

The maximum output current for a 1st gen MKII is above 4000 RPM. This is higher than the cruising RPM of 70 MPH.

 

Gary

[Guest Swifty]

because the bike idled alot and rode at slow speeds alot the bike did alot of 25 mph

Jeff.

LMAO....I think that is the funniest thing I've heard Jeff say about me and my bike since I joined Ventureriders.

[OB-1]

I do not agree with this statement.

 

The output of a generator is RPM dependent. This is due to the flywheel magnets being other half of the generator system. The faster the magnets pass the coils the higher the output current.

 

The maximum output current for a 1st gen MKII is above 4000 RPM. This is higher than the cruising RPM of 70 MPH.

 

Gary

 

Yes, the output power of the stator is RPM dependent; however, the stator output is always at the maximum level for the RPM. In other words, the load on the stator winding is always 100% of the available output. It doesn't matter what electrical loads we are or are not running, the stator is always putting out the maximum available power for the RPM. Any power not used by us or the bike is shunted to ground via the voltage regulator. This ain't a car charging system, it's a bike and this is a common design for bikes.

[bongobobny]

OK Swifty, here's another problem. You had a high output stator in there, didn't you?!!? High output stators are designed for more amps output and therefore develop more heat because of it. The enemy of longevity is heat. Therefore the shortcoming of high output stators is they just don't last as long!

 

Secondary you should update your antique R/R with a new high Tech one. Yes, there is a possibility that you now may also have a defective R/R depending on what really went on at the time of failure...

[BradT]

Secondary you should update your antique R/R with a new high Tech one....

 

I would definetly do this at the same time as the new one. AS Jeff say start picking the speed up a bit so the stator can generate the max power.

 

Brad

[mralex714]

So is there something I need to look for to prevent this from happening as soon as I put in the new one? That one had 30,000 miles on it.

 

Does your bike have the cooling kit installed?

[timgray]

....There really isn't anything we can do to increase the life of the stator short of redesigning the whole charging system or installing series current limiting resisters which would further reduce the pitifully low output of our charging system.

....

 

Yes there is. #1 install the cooling kit. #2 is to remove the stock Regulator and throw it in the trash. Install one from a Yamaha FJR1300 or other modern Yamma. Check here in the 1st gen forum about R&R upgrade.

 

Works great, better than great. MY stator wires went from HOT after a ride, to cold. and I now charge at 13.5 volts at idle with the fan running.

 

The Stock Regulator in our bikes is really poorly designed, It needs to be removed and thrown away. If you have any decent experience with electrical, you can upgrade it in and afternoon easily. I did mine and replaced the Stator with a hot Shot stator in a single saturday.

[Trader]

so how does a stator cooler work?

How much are they?

[Guest Swifty]

#2 is to remove the stock Regulator and throw it in the trash. Install one from a Yamaha FJR1300 or other modern Yamma. Check here in the 1st gen forum about R&R upgrade.

Do any of these other regulators have matching mounting holes for installing it in the same place?

 

A search for "R&R upgrade" gives me 16 pages of hits in First gen tech talk. Can anyone help me narrow it down to a single thread or two?

Edited April 25, 2013 by Swifty

[camos]

Do any of these other regulators have matching mounting holes for installing it in the same place?

 

A search for "R&R upgrade" gives me 16 pages of hits in First gen tech talk. Can anyone help me narrow it down to a single thread or two?

As far as I know a modern mosfet R/R will not mount where the OEM one is located. That one is bolted to the frame to act as a heat sink while the new ones use air flow and reportedly run much cooler. I got the Shindengen R/R from a group buy a while ago and mounted it in the left side fairing. It is screwed to the plastic liner in there and shows no indication of excessive heat. I'm in the middle of doing a valve job so have that area all apart. There is what I think looks like a perfect place to mount the R/R with a couple of U-bolts to a frame cross member just behind the engine. There are a bunch of hoses running on the aft side of that cross member. It can be seen better with the plastic heat shield removed. I'm pretty sure Tim Gray mounted his R/R in that spot. Anyway, I going to try moving my R/R to that spot after I get the damned valves set. Oops did I say that?

[timgray]

Yup mine is just behind the engine, but I used an aluminum strap from the local hardware store to make it a single bolt to mount or remove it. It does not get a lot of air flow there, but these dont need it, they are rated for 60 Amps and at Maximum with 4 sets of driving lights and every add on light you could think of, etc.... our bikes are doing 25 Amps which is OK for a no/low air flow location for these things. ON the FJR they are buried in a location that gets zero air flow.

 

Also good luck getting the old one off. Several times I though of just cutting the wires really short and abandoning it where it lives on the bike. I finally got it off last fall in a final attempt.

 

Lastly, if you really want to mount it at the stock location, you MUST get the $15$ set of waterproof connectors for the unit. Where the stock unit is located you get every single drop of water that is on the road thrown at it.

[reddevilmedic]

shindigen 3 phase http://roadstercycle.com/Shindengen%20FH012AA%20Regulator%20upgrade%20kit.htm.

[motorcycle_1300]

What does a fried stator look like?

 

Depends on if it is breaded or battered.

 

sorry I know you were asking a serious question but I couldn't resist. Hopefully the others who replied had an answer that helped with your problem.

 

Al

[Guest Swifty]

The Mosfet kit videos show TWO wires (for the battery) and THREE wires for the stator.

Here is a pic of what I see....

THREE stator wires,

TWO red and TWO black wires (battery, I assume),

PLUS a brown wire!

So,despite how smart I think I am...when it comes to wiring, I NEED VERY simple explanations. On my previous install all I did was connect THREE wires to THREE wires...simple enough. But NOW this. So:

1. Can you explain to me VERY simply what gets connected to what?

2. Does the old wiring harness for this purpose get bypassed when you install a new regulator kit like this? I noticed that these wires are part of a bigger wiring harness, so if you just cut these off do you leave them cut dead?

3. If you bypass this whole system, does that mean I have even MORE terminals that I have to connect directly to the battery terminal? What happens at the battery end? I don't want to work on a new fuse box.

 

GAWD, I hate wiring!

Thanks for your patience and help.