Something is failing.... But what? Driving me nuts.

[Snaggletooth]

I had have a charging problem develope and it's driving me up the wall.

 

I'm always bragging on the set up I have as being the most reliable thing going.

 

I have the digital voltmeter in the dash. Down to the 10ths. When the bike fires up it always shows 14.4 volts unless I add a lil drain with the driving lights. Then it only drops to 14.2 at the lowest.

 

It's developed a trick where going down the road it will suddenly drop to 13.8 to 14.0 range with no load. With the driving lights on it drops to 13.2 to 13.4.

 

All of a sudden it will go back to 14.4 again for a while. This is all randon and unpredictable. Never exceeds the 14.4 volts.

 

I figured a connection was the issue. So I spent the day stripping the bike down and checked all the wiring. I have the charging system on a complete seperate shielded harness and found no weak spots.

 

The wiring for the driving lights are on their own harness to. No problems found.

 

All connections clean and tight everywhere.

 

Even pulled the Hella Projectors out to check wiring in the bucket. It's tight in there I always think about a wire getting rubbed.

 

All my stator and R/R wires are soldered and shirnk wrapped.

 

The Buckeye upgrade stator is putting the same reading as it always has.

 

The DEKA is over four years old but preforms as always. It's fully charged and I had it load tested today. Still in top condition.

 

The R/R is the Shindengen I installed a couple years ago. (but it's becoming suspect)

 

Checked and cleaned all grounding points and cable connections on the bike.

 

Even doubled checked wiring for the trailer and convertor.

 

This can happen hot or cold. Don't seem to matter. It started doing its act today running on the stand with all wires exposed and nothing being touched.

 

I'm open for suggestion here guys. I'm at a loss.

[Prairiehammer]

Fan kicking on?

[Snaggletooth]

Fan kicking on?

 

Not until needed. I just installed a new water pump and went through all that.

 

The fan is never on when this happens.

[Squidley]

I wish I had some words of wisdom for you Mike. I am going through some electrical gremlins myself with my '86. Brand new stator from Ricks motorsports, 75 VAC at 4k rpm out of the leads to the R/R and when I have it hooked to the bike it's not charging. Been working with Dano to troubleshoot it, but nothing yet. Good luck with it my friend, I feel your pain

[Snaggletooth]

What ever happened to magnetos and kick starters? Life was simple back then.

[Venturous Randy]

I would be tickled to death if mine did that well.

RandyA

[kevin-vic-b.c.]

a stupid question would have to be..... is the Volt Meter dysfunctional ?

[Snaggletooth]

Not according to two different multimeters. They all show the same flux.

[Snaggletooth]

I would be tickled to death if mine did that well.

RandyA

 

Yeah, once you get used to the good stuff everything else seems like a failure.

 

It still is charging the battery fine and keeps it topped off. No drain there.

 

But............ ya know...... don't feel right.

 

It's like a cutie flashing ya. Wanna see it all the time.

[dingy]

I don't know if this could be related to Ventures, but the VMax guys have a splice connection in the harness identified as a culprit.

 

http://vmaxoutlaw.com/tech/crimp.htm

 

This is in a VMax. I have opened up harnesses on Ventures and there are many of these splices that are taped over.

 

Gary

[Snaggletooth]

Thanks Gary. I'll take a look at that. This is why I did the seperate harness when I installed all the new stuff. Wanted to avoid this type of headache. Figures if I ever had a problem it would be a quick trouble shoot and be done with it. Jsut can't figure out which part to shoot at this point.

 

I keep going back the R/R but I've never seen one act like this. Usually get a big flux and going way high.

 

Maybe tomorrow.....

[dingy]

Thanks Gary. I'll take a look at that. This is why I did the seperate harness when I installed all the new stuff. Wanted to avoid this type of headache. Figures if I ever had a problem it would be a quick trouble shoot and be done with it. Jsut can't figure out which part to shoot at this point.

 

I keep going back the R/R but I've never seen one act like this. Usually get a big flux and going way high.

 

Maybe tomorrow.....

 

Assuming your new harness & charging system is in great shape, next variable is a changing load in the main system. When this load varies, the R/R is slow to respond to change.

 

Next would be a battery showing distress. Face it, 4 years on a bike with as much as you use it is not bad. Load testing may not show bad for something intermittent.

 

Also look at contacts in the key switch.

 

Gary

[Snaggletooth]

Assuming your new harness & charging system is in great shape, next variable is a changing load in the main system. When this load varies, the R/R is slow to respond to change.

 

Next would be a battery showing distress. Face it, 4 years on a bike with as much as you use it is not bad. Load testing may not show bad for something intermittent.

 

Also look at contacts in the key switch.

 

Gary

 

No doubt I've put that DEKA through the wringer. When I was chasing cupcakes for Hostess I'd start the bike 20 or more times a day, 6 days a week. Not to mention driving home 30 miles with burned out R/R. I thought that would kill it. That was several years ago.

 

That was why I had it load tested this morning. It was still showing 12.7 volts static and 80% power on my tester. The load test was good showing better than any other battery he'd tested. But like you said, four years is four years. I'm goin to try a different battery over the week end and see what happens.

[midnightventure]

I don't think I would worry about it unless it got worse than it is.

[muffinman]

Seeing as how its well withing specs I would not worry about it myself but I understand

The first thing I would look at is Chassis ground and battery grounding spot if that is good I would do a wiggle check on the wiring looking for continuety (maybe not spelled right) changes in the ground wires.

The key switch contacts are always suspect as is the starter switch contacts and the kill switch.

Dont over think it and take your time the answer will come to you when you least expect it.

 

 

 

Jeff

[Snaggletooth]

Seeing as how its well withing specs I would not worry about it myself but I understand

 

The first thing I would look at is Chassis ground and battery grounding spot if that is good I would do a wiggle check on the wiring looking for continuety (maybe not spelled right) changes in the ground wires.

 

The key switch contacts are always suspect as is the starter switch contacts and the kill switch.

 

Dont over think it and take your time the answer will come to you when you least expect it.

 

 

 

Jeff

 

I had the switch apart about a year ago and it was in good shape. Hoping it still is but may take another look.

 

I called a buddy last night and "borrowing" a new battery from his shop to swap out and try that this morning to see what happens.

 

I checked and cleaned all the grounds the other day while I was doing the water pump and going over the bike. Might add another one to see what happens.

 

I had some gremlins living in my garage when I did Dano's engage clutch upgrade. They pulled the rotor off for me while I was sleeping. I guess they moved out. The bike is still apart this morning. Lil buggers are never around when you need them.

 

I gotta hire some new help around here.

[billmac]

sounds like a battery cell (s) is starting to fail.

[Snaggletooth]

Well, I don't know if I'd call it progress or not but I've done all I can do.

 

I tried cycling to switch on and off but it made no difference. Tore it down and checked it (again) and it looked just like it did last time. Clean an lubed. Touched up the contacts and tried again. No difference.

 

So I swapped out my battery with new one. No difference. Did the same thing. Snapped right up to 14.2 and sat there. Shook and rattled the wires and never changed the reading. Kick on the drivers and it only dropps to 13.8 like before. then snaps back to 14.0 - 14.2 like before.

 

Never got up to 14.4 like I was hoping.

 

I know the stator is good. I'm pretty sure the R/R is holding its own. Wiring is intact and all connections were checked again.

 

Added a new ground from battery to frame. Nuttin'.

 

So I put the old DEKA back in. I wanna see how long the critter will hold up.

 

I'm going to write this off as the beast changed it's life style and let it go at that. It's starts. It runs. It don't throw sparks. And it is charging fine. Just lower than it used to.

 

Go to go. I guess.

 

Got a lot of other dinky stuff done while I was in there and a good cleaning to. Waiting for it to get dark so I can get the Hellas lined back up and Im done. For a while I hope.

 

Thanks for all the advice guys. I like having the help.

 

Mike

[billmac]

do you have a radio or other electronic running with the sound turned all the way down and not accounting for that draw?

[Snaggletooth]

do you have a radio or other electronic running with the sound turned all the way down and not accounting for that draw?

 

Nope, All disconnectted. Even removed the amp a few years ago.

 

All my marker and tail lights are on seperate harnesses and turned off. And LED's anyway.

 

Fan is not coming on and dragging it down. Even disconnected the temp gauge.

 

I even removed my modded headlight set up just to check.

 

Sometimes when I start cold it only shows 14.1 for a while then goes to 14.4.

 

Other times it starts cold at 14.4 and later changes t0 14.2.

 

Hitting a bump has no affect on the changes. It's just a random event.

 

No change in headlight brightness.

 

Tested with two differnt batteries. One was new.

 

All I got left to consider is a possible fuel pump draw, or the stator has a failing winding.

 

I was taught as a young mechanic to work this system. Evaluate, Isolate and Eliminate. It's not working this time.

 

Whatever it is, I can not create the situation during testing.

 

Would a fuel level sending unit cause something like this? Haven't check that yet.

[GeorgeS]

IF, when battery fully charged, its showing 14.2 to 14.4 OK, When the Regulator,

sence's that the battery needs to start charging, then there should be a voltage drop. ( At least some amount ) . No two systems, are going to Read Exactly the same voltages. ( when R/R kicks in, its adding a load, and there will be some amount of voltage drop in the system )

 

So, if, your battery is staying charged, for starting, and you are useing driveing lights ( fairly large extra load on the system ) then I really don't think you have a problem.

 

As long as it stays above 13.0 volts, the system is charging !! If it drops " Below " the Static battery voltage ( with NO Load ) then I would start to worry.

 

From everything you have said, my opinion ( if anybody is interested ) is that you do not have a problem.

 

At worst, I think your Stator " might " be getting a bit on the weak side.

There " Might " be a loose or high resistance connection in the stator, Under the Stator Cover . ( but that is just pure speculation )

 

If you are useing Driveing lights, I would disconnect them ( pull the fuse ) and operate the bike normaly for a week or so, and monitor the Volt meter you have installed. See what happens.

 

Frankly, I don't think you have a problem.

 

But if I was to work further on your bike, I would suspect the splices, in the Three Phase wireing from the stator to the R/R Unit.

 

Also, I would suspect the wires themselvs from the Stator to the R/R, possible the wires have been Damage, Internally, and you cannot see the damage to the wire strands, under the Insulation ( outer wire cover )

 

(( Trust me I have fixed many Aircraft wireing problems that came down to this, ie: cracked copper under the outer insulation ))

 

Long story short, If your starter is cranking, normally, I don't think you have a problem.

 

OR, as you said, Maby, the R/R unit is Getting Cranky !!! Only thing to do is replace it.

[Snaggletooth]

I hear ya George. I do. I'm obsessing over this. My voltage readings have been rock steady since I've done all the upgrades that has been over a year of every day riding. I knew exactly what my voltmeter was going to show with what ever switch I kicked on.

 

I got used to that.

 

But I'm going for a ride. Maybe that will help.