front forks not rit after progressive springs install

[johnnycruiser]

Hi all. I have recieved great in info from this awsome site while doing the following jobs. There are some really cool people here. I have an 83 venture 1200. Rebuilt da carbs sat n did fork seals and progressive springs sun. put in 5.5" oil like it says, used da spacers that came in box as the directions said they were correct. It should have taken about 13 oz's of oil right? When i got to 5.5" in each fork, i had only used approx 9 oz's in each tube. What da hell? And yes i pumped the forks up and down. The fork tube was burping and gurgling. No oil leaking all over my right side front brake caliper any longer. Forks seemed stiff sitting in garage. Then went for ride around the block, when i got back the front end was real soft but not bottoming out. when i push down on front end it sounds like air coming from top of tree. Could the air parts be leaking? I've read that with progressives most people dont use any air but i was thinking maybe try some. If that doesnt work and i dont hear air escaping i guess I'll put in more oil. maybe it worked thru where it needed to but theres only so many places for it to go. Lmao. Any help would be most appreciated. I'm trying to get pictures of 'Ol Blue uploaded; both dressed and torn apart like i had it this weekend!

[Snaggletooth]

Few things to ask here.

 

Did you get the air collars back on the fork in the correct position and sealed over the ports on the fork tubes?

 

Did you tighten the top fork caps so the o-rings seat?

 

Are the air lines connected or plugged off?

 

The oil should be added before the springs, then pumped from fully extended to fully compressed several times until all internal passages are filled with oil and and bubbles cease.

 

The oil level can be at the 5.5" height from the top (fully compressed forks) with the springs not in or some have run them as low as 7.5" below the top. Still within the safe operation range. I run mine at 6.5". Once you get the oil level set then insert the springs.

 

The springs do feel very stiff until you get the weight of the bike and rider on them and get the oil worked through the system. They will seem very stiff compared to the OEM springs.

 

You will more than likely NEVER bottom out the Progressives. I haven't nailed mine to the top yet.

 

I'm just going over some things as I'm got sure how you approached the project.

 

Keep a eye on those seals on the first few rides so you don't oil down your pads. Stopping sucks with a 10wt lube job on them.

Edited March 20, 2013 by Snaggletooth

[johnnycruiser]

Thanx for the list 2 check snaggletooth. I did do the oil without the springs in but i didnt fully extend the forks. I paid $100 for my yamaha manual and this site is way better because the manual assumes im a japanese bike builder already! lol. It does say use 13.5 oz's though. Anyway i bet that's da problem. I wondered why i only used 9 oz's oil for each fork. I'm thinking 5.5" might be too stiff. I weigh 210 and it's usually just me. what measurement do you think for an all around good ride? Bikes been sitting for 6 years. couple weeks ago i put in barnnet clutches, new battery, brake pads everywhere. As i said, this weekend rebuilt carbs and did forks. A lot of work but from all i read here it should def be worth it. Cant wait to REALLY ride her. Thanx again for your quick response. I work 12 hour days but am off friday. Now that the bike is all together, I will have to put her on the center stand and jack da front end off the ground again to extend the forks all the way out to get an accurate measurement right? Can u come help me get this beast on the center stand????

[GolfVenture]

Try putting an MKII on the center stand weighting 175 LB and in your 60s. I have to figure a better way for I'm concerned I may pull a hernia.

[Snaggletooth]

It's been a few years since I used the measured oil method. I've been sticking to the "from the top" for a while.

 

If you did not remove the small drain plug at the bottoms of the forks and actually pump the old oil out that could account for your lower number on the amount of oil added.

 

That reference for the 13.5 ozs. is pretty much for clean, dry and empty.

 

So yeah, the forks should be off the ground and fully compressed to get the level right.

 

The center stand trick....... left hand on the left hand grip, right hand on the left rear guard to lift with and then.... here is the trick. When you put your foot on the foot lever for the center stand, put ALL YOUR WEIGHT on the foot lever as you pull up with your right hand on the guard. Use the weight of your body more than your back to do the heavy work. You'll be surprised how easy it comes up with a little practice.

Edited March 20, 2013 by Snaggletooth

[Snaggletooth]

John, you asked about the tips.

 

End of stock pipe, compression sleeve, turndown tip and the spring attachment loop. Tada!

[johnnycruiser]

I removed the bolt at the bottom of the forks and pumped out all of the oil. So u measure from the top? I measured from the bottom with the forks compressed!!:rotf:No wonder the front end feels like it does. Hahahaha. Doesnt it do your heart good helping out us simpletons?? Thanx for the tip on getting the bike on the center stand. It took my nephew (a skinny 15 yrs) and myself a coupe times to get it up there. I was on the bike using my left foot and it kept slipping off. I've got to be up at 4:30 for work so going to bed with an easier mind. Thanx again Snaggletooth. Looks like your my first friend.

[Snaggletooth]

I thought I had some pics of the spacer set up for the Progressives but I guess not.

 

The only thing I had handy was the pic of the break down of the stock forks. Of course removing the OEM spring and the long steel spacer.

 

With the new springs they go in first, then use the shaped washer on top of that so it sits inside and centered on the spring. Then the PVC spacer (1/2" or so) on top of that to contact the bottom of the top cap. If you need or desire to add more preload add a washer to the top of the PVC. Probably won't need to add washers for now.

 

Mike

Edited March 21, 2013 by Snaggletooth

[Snaggletooth]

I removed the bolt at the bottom of the forks and pumped out all of the oil. So u measure from the top? I measured from the bottom with the forks compressed!!:rotf:No wonder the front end feels like it does. Hahahaha. Doesnt it do your heart good helping out us simpletons?? Thanx for the tip on getting the bike on the center stand. It took my nephew (a skinny 15 yrs) and myself a coupe times to get it up there. I was on the bike using my left foot and it kept slipping off. I've got to be up at 4:30 for work so going to bed with an easier mind. Thanx again Snaggletooth. Looks like your my first friend.

 

These ain't no Honda 750. You won't make much progress sitting on the bike.

 

I'm PM you more info later.

 

Hit the rack. Catch ya later.

[Snaggletooth]

Try putting an MKII on the center stand weighting 175 LB and in your 60s. I have to figure a better way for I'm concerned I may pull a hernia.

 

 

Brian, I've seen a couple pics of you standing by your bike. That's got to be a fight. You have any cargo pants? You're gonna need some rocks in your pockets.

 

Ya know, maybe one of these guys can build a system to run off the C.L.A.S.S. pump. These pumps don't produce a lot of volume but with a small pneumatic ram cylinder or two..... ah heck. Never mind. But anything is possible ya know.

[GolfVenture]

I use all of me 175 LBs and lift up and with a few grunts the bike finally goes onto the center stand. Infact as I'm standing on the kick stand I have to carefully balance and rock the bike. Like one, two , three, All my weight, lift up and grunt.

[Snaggletooth]

John.... Another PM sent you might want to read before you tear back into it.

 

And I attached the Progressive instructions that cover the fine points. Didn't know if you had a copy.

[reddevilmedic]

i just get off the bike.. left hand on handlebars, right hand on passenger grab bar, right foot on centerstand......push down and lift with right hand

[Snaggletooth]

i just get off the bike.. left hand on handlebars, right hand on passenger grab bar, right foot on centerstand......push down and lift with right hand

 

 

Sounds like John was trying to get the bike on the center stand while sitting on the bike, using his left foot on the stand lever. Myself, I don't think that would ever work with these bikes.

[Flyinfool]

I was concerned about getting this monster up on the center stand. when I was looking at on the dealers floor the salesman about 5' 6" and MAYBE 120 lbs moved the bike away from the wall and popped it up on the center stand like nuttin. I figured that if he could do it, then I would have no problem. HA! I had a hell of a time getting the bike up on center. Now that I have the proper technique down, its really no big deal. Granted I do have a fair amount of tonnage to throw at it.

Some people put one or both tires up on a board to help out while learning the technique.

[Marcarl]

Another 2 things to help with getting it up,,,,,, grease the center stand pivot points and if you can, air up the rear shock to full. Then put down the CS, right foot on the CS handle, grip the bike to balance it, rock it side to side to have it set on both legs, and then give it a good shove with your foot,,, your right foot!

[kevin-vic-b.c.]

Another 2 things to help with getting it up,,,,,, grease the center stand pivot points and if you can, air up the rear shock to full. Then put down the CS, right foot on the CS handle, grip the bike to balance it, rock it side to side to have it set on both legs, and then give it a good shove with your foot,,, your right foot!

 

When I first got my '86 I could not get it on the CS without someone helping me.... thinking crap this sucks! Then went to a charity M/C wash at a dealer, they had some sweet hard body bikini girls washing bikes. One of the girls turned and asked if my bike was getting a wash, I smiled and said yes, she grabbed the handle bar and passenger hand grip kicked the side stand up pushed the bike 10 feet over to a "wash station" put her foot on the side stand, gave it a rock back and forth and her 125 lbs plus bikini had that sucker on CS in a second! I kinda went.... ok crap now I been showed up.... hope I can get it down when she is done with it...... she saved me and brought it back to the starting point. Best $20.00 wash I ever got! I think she had do it before!

[GaryZ]

I removed the bolt at the bottom of the forks and pumped out all of the oil. So u measure from the top? I measured from the bottom with the forks compressed!!:rotf:No wonder the front end feels like it does. Hahahaha. Doesnt it do your heart good helping out us simpletons?? Thanx for the tip on getting the bike on the center stand. It took my nephew (a skinny 15 yrs) and myself a coupe times to get it up there. I was on the bike using my left foot and it kept slipping off. I've got to be up at 4:30 for work so going to bed with an easier mind. Thanx again Snaggletooth. Looks like your my first friend.

I guess I can share a little here;

I installed my Progressive Springs without removing the forks. With the bike on the center stand I placed a floor jack under the engine and slightly lifted the front wheel. Then I removed the fork caps and removed the original springs and other stuff (what a mess). I lowered the floor jack until the forks were fully collapsed. Next I clamped a vice grip on a ruler and used it to measure the fork oil in the tubes. Added oil until it was 5.5 inches from the top. Raised the front with the floor jack and dropped in the new springs. I used the spacer supplied with the Progressive springs and the stock washer between the spacer and the top of the springs. I replaced the caps and ride the heck out of my baby.

 

I weigh 250lbs and will add 6 - 10lbs of air when the roads get twisty (adds ground clearance).

 

[johnnycruiser]

Thanx for the great info all. This site is the best for a new(but aged) venture owner. Someone has had these forks apart b4, which is no surprise. The right fork had two shoulder washers, the left had 1. I got the bike on the center stand and placed floor jack under engine. Measured oil from bottom instead of top. probably main problem with lack of stiffness plus i dont think i got air hole at top lined up. One other issue i had is when i got the damper out of the outer fork, only the spring came out. None of the 3 washers nor the taper spindle. Do they just fall out with the spring or do u have to make them come out? :confused24:I only did the right fork seal because the left isnt leaking!! Lol. Nah, i would def have done them both but the real reason is the bolt at the bottom of the fork is stripped. Yeee Hawww!!! Tap n die time i guess. One thing about working on my bikes is my tool assortment sure is growing. Thanx again Psychos. Hahahaha

[Marcarl]

Thanx for the great info all. This site is the best for a new(but aged) venture owner. Someone has had these forks apart b4, which is no surprise. The right fork had two shoulder washers, the left had 1. I got the bike on the center stand and placed floor jack under engine. Measured oil from bottom instead of top. probably main problem with lack of stiffness plus i dont think i got air hole at top lined up.

The air collar has a centering pin that you have to line up, look for it, you'll see it.

 

One other issue i had is when i got the damper out of the outer fork, only the spring came out. None of the 3 washers nor the taper spindle. Do they just fall out with the spring or do u have to make them come out?

Mostly you have to shake the whole business to get them for viewing, they like to hide in the bottom. If you don't get all the washers, make sure they are not stuck in the bottom of the fork,, they really aren't going to do much good there and new ones are not cheap, and you will need all three, 2 flat and 1 wave washer.

 

I only did the right fork seal because the left isnt leaking!! Lol. Nah, i would def have done them both but the real reason is the bolt at the bottom of the fork is stripped. Yeee Hawww!!! Tap n die time i guess. One thing about working on my bikes is my tool assortment sure is growing. Thanx again Psychos. Hahahaha

Is the head stripped or the threads?

[Snaggletooth]

And your back.

 

You think the allen hard bolt from the bottom is stripped but it may not be. That bolt screws into the bottom of the damper rod and retains the oil lock asssmebly. If it's a little loose the whole thing will spin. You need to hold the damper rod in place while removing the allen head from the bottom.

 

A simple tool can be made with a section of 5/8" redi-rod with nuts doubled on both ends.

 

Like this one.

 

Some have been able to remove the damper by just shoving a broom handle again the damper to hold it tight enough.

[johnnycruiser]

The head on the bolt is stripped, my 8mm allen socket wont do anything. I made the all thread tool with two nuts on each end(works great) to go in top of damper that I saw on another thread but cannot get anything to bite on the bottom bolt. The funny thing about the air collar is-I read in my manual about lining it up and as I was putting the top of the right fork level where its sposed to be, i noticed the left fork was bout 1/4 inch higher than it was sposed to be. So i went and leveled the left fork and measured both from bottom of tree down to make sure they are the same. So, by that time i had forgotten all about the air collar. Bet that @#$% don't happen again! Thanx for the feedback. I'm gonna tear into again tomorrow. Bad thing is I have to at least take the right front fairing off(again lol). My right front brake caliper is sticking and I'm gonna try and loosen that up. Put on back brakes and bleed clutch and brake lines

[johnnycruiser]

I am so ready to ride:Venture:

[Snaggletooth]

On the body for the oil lock being stuck I've had a couple that were pretty tight and did not fall out with the damper rod.

 

On one set I had to remove the anti-dive valves from the lower legs and used a small screw driver to reach through the valve port and pry it upward WHILE heating the lower leg with a heat gun. If it stuck real tight more than likely it's badly worn also.

 

Make sure you get all three washers out of there and inspect them closely. Two waves and one flat between them. They are critical to the operation of the oil lock.

[johnnycruiser]

When I first got my '86 I could not get it on the CS without someone helping me.... thinking crap this sucks! Then went to a charity M/C wash at a dealer, they had some sweet hard body bikini girls washing bikes. One of the girls turned and asked if my bike was getting a wash, I smiled and said yes, she grabbed the handle bar and passenger hand grip kicked the side stand up pushed the bike 10 feet over to a "wash station" put her foot on the side stand, gave it a rock back and forth and her 125 lbs plus bikini had that sucker on CS in a second! I kinda went.... ok crap now I been showed up.... hope I can get it down when she is done with it...... she saved me and brought it back to the starting point. Best $20.00 wash I ever got! I think she had do it before!

So where is this bike wash??????? I've got a couple $20's I need to spend in a wise manner!!