Coolant proportion?

[stardbog]

Just Bored and think to replace Antifreeze in Venture Cooling System, and get ready for nice weather rides.

I Got one of Amsoil Antifreeze https://www.amsoil.com/storefront/ant.aspx , and they recommend to mix with Water in rate of 40, 50 or 60 % depend on region. Well Chicago have some arctic temperatures during winter, but over summer could be extremely hot too.

 

So What is your experience with Coolant / Proportions. Should I Wait until Spring and use higher water grade. or just mix as directed on bottle?

 

Little confused. this is my first time to change coolant fluid on Venture. I Know I'm never change coolant in my cars, and they works.

 

What is your Recommendation.

 

Thanks

[dynodon]

I think I would go with the 60% just because it provides the highest boiling point. I think any concentration mentioned would provide protection from freezing so I would worry about boiling point more.

 

The sealing small leaks thing is of interest to me. I am an Amsoil dealer but haven't considered this product before. Since it is compatible with other brands, it means you can flush and fill without worrying about getting 100% of the old stuff out. In the past, if you mixed types, it could make a slurry that would plug stuff up. So this is good news.

 

I probably will switch my old cars that I don't drive much to this stuff come spring. Maybe it will fix a persistent leak in my '91 SHO!

 

BTW, if you are really concerned, why not call AMsoil and ask to speak to someone in Tech about the antifreeze, they are real good about answering questions. number is: 715-395-0437 in Superior WI.

[Squeeze]

Stan,

 

mix the Coolant to the minimum Temperature the Bike has to suffer in the Shed minus 5 another Degree.

 

The Goal is to use just enough Antifreeze to prevent freezing. If you use too much it's cooling Abilities suffer in Summer.

[stardbog]

Thanks Don. How many galons of Cooling stuff is in 2nd Gen Venture, and is it realy necessery to replace Coolant ?

[Guest Popeye]

I use 50-50 mix of 'ethylene glycol' antifreeze in everything I own.

Did the same when I lived up north & works down here in Kansas as well for -0* to triple digits. Also, its cheap enough.

 

I change it every 50k miles or 3 years, if I remember, or if it looks bad.

 

That new 'propylene glycol' would be easier on the neighbor's cat, though, but I don't leave any standing around.

[flb_78]

Actually Squeeze, you're wrong. Antifreeze is also a coolant, no just an agent used to keep the water from freezing. The IDEAL mix of coolant is 68% antifreeze and 32% water, that gets you the absolute lowest freezing point and the highest boiling point. I personally would run 60/40 though for ease. Also, if you coolant is dirty or murky, put a 1/8 cup of cascade of electrasol in the radiator and ride 10 miles round trip. Drain the coolant and fill with water. Ride around the block to help flush it out. Drain the water. Fill with a 60/40 mix of antifreeze and water. USE DISTILLED WATER!! Do not use tap water if at all possible.

[Squeeze]

Actually Squeeze, you're wrong. Antifreeze is also a coolant, no just an agent used to keep the water from freezing. The IDEAL mix of coolant is 68% antifreeze and 32% water, that gets you the absolute lowest freezing point and the highest boiling point. .....

 

 

Hey, thanks for enlighten me ...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hey, wait a Minute, for which Brand and Type of Coolant does the 68/32 Mixture apply ??

 

 

Did you happen to notice that there are thousands of Products on the Market. Not all of them are different, lots are just labeled, but nevertheless, you can count that down to a hundred different. Not counted the Blends and Premixes ...

 

Next ... did you happen to stumble upon Redline Water Wetter ??

 

 

 

OK, forget about it. Forget about what the Manufacturer write in his Recommendation for HIS Product ... Why spend Time reading these tiny little, hard to read, Words, some of them are in other the Black/white Colour Combination printed too. :bang head::bang head:

 

 

Sorry, i stick to my Story. Use as much as you need to, not more because overdoing will hurt the Abilities of the Coolant transporting Heat. That will normally cause no Problem on our Bikes, but that wasn't the Question. When stuck in midtown Traffic Jam on a hot Summer Day, every Kelvin of Temperature which we can get away from Engine and Rider is Gain.

 

 

Other than that, i second your Statement about distilled Water.

[flb_78]

Hey, wait a Minute, for which Brand and Type of Coolant does the 68/32 Mixture apply ??

 

Any brand of Green Ethelene glycol antifreeze. I don't use the red, orange, pink, organic, safe, premixed stuff.

 

I'm also a diesel mechanic for Class 8 over the road trucks and have been to school were the general agreement was the 68/32 was a perfect mix, but 60/40 is recommended for ease of use.

 

If you want MAXIMUM protection, go to a waterless coolant.

 

http://www.evanscooling.com/main27.htm

[Squeeze]

Sorry Forrest,

 

the last Time i checked my Class 8 Trucks, they have had a steel casted Casing, my Bikes, as well as all the other here, all have Aluminium Casings...

 

 

I'm not saying that you are wrong in your 68/32 Statement. By The Rule of Thumb, this may work. But transferring your Knowledge from heavy Dieselengines to Motorcycle Motors might be a questionable Approach. And talking about the Stuff you use, without mentioning this, might not help Stan on the Stuff he uses.

 

 

 

I don't know the exact Specification of Stan's Stuff, but i think, combining what i suggested in Temperature Range and follow the advised Mixture of his Stuff on the Temperatures in Hand might be the recommended Way to handle this Issue.

 

 

 

 

 

 

No offense, no argueing, i go to Bed now....

[flb_78]

Sorry Forrest,

 

the last Time i checked my Class 8 Trucks, they have had a steel casted Casing, my Bikes, as well as all the other here, all have Aluminium Casings...

 

Trucks use a steel cylinder which is pushing into the cast iron block and sealed with rubber o-rings. Most trucks now use aluminum radiators and have many aluminum engine parts. A motorcycle engine is aluminum cased with steel cylinders. The aluminum case has nothing to do with cooling on the Royal Stars. It is used only for weight savings and ANY proper antifreeze mixture from 30/70 to 70/30 will be fine in ANY engine for cooling purposes.

[flb_78]

Right on Amsoil's site.

 

[flb_78]

well anywho, to answer the original question in this here thread, The amsoil is Propylene glycol.

 

Personally, I would run a 60/40 mix of Amsoil to distilled water.

[stardbog]

Wow What A Elaboration... Thanks to all of you.... Didn't Know I'll open can of worms just about asking for antifreeze mixture. :bang head:

 

Lutz, and Forrest you are both right. After reviewing Amsoil chart thats right 68 / 32 % mixture is ideal for even arctic circle temperature, but for Chicago most likely temperature is plunging in ~ -30 to -40*F which is becoming preaty close in Celsius. Amsoil is calling for ideal mixture for that temperature range, just over 50- 50%, and for hotter weather they call for even lighter mixture.

Boiling point is interesting too, Higher mixture is boiling higher, so for stop and go traffic in summer days, I Guess higher mixture will do a better job.

Don't know is higher mixture better taking away engine heat or what.

 

How many galons are in Venture Cooling system?

 

Thanks a milion

Dan

[flb_78]

How many gallons are in Venture Cooling system?

 

Thanks a million

Dan

 

I have no idea, but I'm sure the answer is in quarts, or possibly even pints.

[Snarley Bill]

always 50/50. thats what most major antifreeze manufacturers recommend for best cooling and protection.to much anti freeze is just as bad as not enough.below zero is another story. a little more may be required then.

[Squeeze]

Hey Stan, no can of Worms opened in my Book. I just make clear why i stated my first Quote and why i don't want to stand 'wrong'. We keep this Discussion polite as always and nobody is going to harmed in any Way. Well, at least that's my Point of View.

 

Trucks use a steel cylinder which is pushing into the cast iron block and sealed with rubber o-rings. Most trucks now use aluminum radiators and have many aluminum engine parts. A motorcycle engine is aluminum cased with steel cylinders. The aluminum case has nothing to do with cooling on the Royal Stars. It is used only for weight savings and ANY proper antifreeze mixture from 30/70 to 70/30 will be fine in ANY engine for cooling purposes.

 

 

I just wanted to make clear that different Engines use different Anti-Freeze. What has been used in Trucks and Cars in Past isn't good to use in Aluminium based Motor of the Present.

 

And for Boiling Point ... Sure is a higher Boiling Point of the Coolant better than a lower, but when the Coolant has better Heat transportation Capability on the 'Cost' of a Lower Boiling Point, it's better to choose this than a higher Boiling Point. Because both Properties are two Sides of one Medal. Wo cares for the lower Boiling Point, when the Coolant is able to discharge more unwanted Heat and heating up Engine, Surroundings and Rider. That's why the Water Cooler normally is black. The Colour help and keep the System cooler.

 

Your Statement to say that any Mixture between 30/70 and 70/30 is fine in any Engine and for Cooling Purpose is ....

Please see it as Fact, that more Antifreeze cause less Heat Transportation Capability. So, on our Motors in very high Temperatures we have a 'Problem' in Traffic Jam. And therefore, it is not recommended to overdo the Mixture.

[Squeeze]

...

 

How many galons are in Venture Cooling system?

 

Thanks a milion

Dan

 

According to the Workshop Manual downloaded from here, it's 3.70 US quart

[bongobobny]

Very enlightening thead!! In general, the rule of thumb has been 50/50 and I did know that 100% doesn't work as good. The main issue is to use an anti freeze that is compatible ith aluminum...

[Snarley Bill]

Very enlightening thead!! In general, the rule of thumb has been 50/50 and I did know that 100% doesn't work as good. The main issue is to use an anti freeze that is compatible ith aluminum...

there are alot of aluminum car engines out there ,most water pumps are aluminum,radiators ar aluminum and most anti freeze is designed to be compatible with aluminum. i've used auto antifreeze in all my watercooled bikes ,no problems.ford made a taurus svo with an aluminum yamaha motor in it that was a take off of the v-max engine.it looked like a large v-6 v-max engine ,and it came with automotive anti freeze. i even thought about putting one in a bike.

[Wizard765]

I was just having a look at this thread and found it very interesting. In our neck of the woods most bike shops are recommending a product called MOTUL. They make motorcycle specific products such as oil and antifreeze. The stuff I'm using comes premixed (I think the manufacturer knows what is the best mixture for his product) and I don't have to think about what is the best mixture and get it right. Anyhow this is very simple and works for me. Bottle says good to -13F and +271F. It was in the bike when I got it (84VR) and I've changed it last summer. Never had a problem.

 

Wayne

[dynodon]

The question was asked "why change antifreeze" and the answer is that any antifreeze will wear out with time. The traditional green stuff is good for 2-4 years at most, and the newer stuff, maybe 5-7.

 

One truth with any vehicle, is that changing fluids helps prolong life. This is true with ANY fluid/grease used on ANY vehicle.

 

flush and change anti-freeze every 2-3 years to be safe. Of course we all know fresh oil, or properly filtered oil is best. Tranny or gear fluid will lose properties, so change that every couple of years.

 

in cars, flush and fill the Power Steering fluid every 2-3 years.

 

And finally, brakes. The best thing you can do to prolong the life and safety of any brake system (same goes for hydraulic clutches) is to bleed/flush the system every couple years.

[Namron]

I was just having a look at this thread and found it very interesting. In our neck of the woods most bike shops are recommending a product called MOTUL. They make motorcycle specific products such as oil and antifreeze. The stuff I'm using comes premixed (I think the manufacturer knows what is the best mixture for his product) and I don't have to think about what is the best mixture and get it right. Anyhow this is very simple and works for me. Bottle says good to -13F and +271F. It was in the bike when I got it (84VR) and I've changed it last summer. Never had a problem.

 

Wayne

 

What good is -13F when the temp gets down to -30F

Norm

[Snarley Bill]

The question was asked "why change antifreeze" and the answer is that any antifreeze will wear out with time. The traditional green stuff is good for 2-4 years at most, and the newer stuff, maybe 5-7.

 

One truth with any vehicle, is that changing fluids helps prolong life. This is true with ANY fluid/grease used on ANY vehicle.

 

flush and change anti-freeze every 2-3 years to be safe. Of course we all know fresh oil, or properly filtered oil is best. Tranny or gear fluid will lose properties, so change that every couple of years.

 

in cars, flush and fill the Power Steering fluid every 2-3 years.

 

And finally, brakes. The best thing you can do to prolong the life and safety of any brake system (same goes for hydraulic clutches) is to bleed/flush the system every couple years.

you are 100% right on. it's called preventitive maintenance. i do all of that in all my vehicles. good for piece of mind to. thanks for the reminder. got one bike i need to change fluids in. bill:2133:

[Phaedrus]

Here is my input:

 

Squeeze maintaines that less antifreeze and more water makes for better heat transfer. This is correct on paper. The difference is measured in btu (heat) per pound of coolant. For the sake of this discussion we're talking 50/50 mix vs. apprx 65/35 mix. The actual difference in btu capacity between the two mixtures is .06 btu per pound of coolant at 200 degrees F. So Squeeze is right, but it doesn't make a big difference except at the margins of performance. What you get for the apprx 65/35 mix is a higher temeperature before boiling, and a lower temperature before freezing. This is about 10 degrees at the top end and almost 20 degrees at the low end. Also not a big difference. So, make your choice based on your own conditions. Personally I use approximately a 70/30 mix to get the lowest freezing point. Heat is not as big a factor here in Minnesota.

 

Second, I see a the discussion about 50/50 vs. 60/40 The point here is that you need to know if you are discussing volume (which is assumed here) or Stoichiometric (molecule to molecule) ratio. A 68/32 volume ratio is a 50/50 Stoichiometric ratio for a mixture of Ethylene glycol to water. This will give you the highest boiling point, and the lowest freezing point for a givien mixture of Ethylene glycol to water. OK, so who cares. Good point, but if you do then here it is.

 

One last point. Changing the coolant every two years. This is done not because the coolant wears out, but because the additives wear out. The additives help lubricate your cooling system components, and help prevent corrosion. It is the additives that have to be compatible with our aluminum engines. Choose a coolant that says it is for aluminum engines and you'll be ok.

[stardbog]

WoW .... Thats to much Informations for me. I'll Close Can of worms and open can of beer.... much better. :banana:. Hope those informations are going to help our members, and just want to tell you, Amsoil is safe for any kind of close circuit cooling system. Here is quote from Amsoil Web site:

 

"It can be used for seven years or 250,000 miles in passenger cars, light-duty trucks, vans and recreational vehicles. It lasts seven years or 750,000 miles in over-the-road diesel trucks. Also for motorcycles, ATVs, snowmobiles and closed marine applications. AMSOIL Antifreeze and Engine Coolant lasts longer than conventional products."

 

As pheadrus said there, between 50 or 60 % In antifreeze favor it's almost doesn't make any difference. Just cuz Chicago Winter I'll go with 55/45 mixture, so nobody was right :smash2: