Carb install and hoses question

[roehlerich]

I just picked up an 85 with carbs removed. I am not sure if i have all the hoses correctly routed and the book is no help. I also need some help on how to best press the carb bodies back onto the boots by myself in 40 degree weather.

I see only 3 hoses on the upper section coming from under the seat that i believe should connect to the 4 carb air vents on the carb bowls that are on a 45 degree angle. I do have the 4 little drain hoses on the bottom. I also have the canister on the left side that is not completely connected. Any help with all these hoses would be appreciated

 

I have worked many bikes but do not see how i can easily press these carbs back into place. Any suggestions besides brute force?

[CaptainJoe]

heat the large hoses with a heat gun on low or hair dryer(keep fire estinguisher handy just in case)

 

then spray with carb cleaner... they will slide in easily and the cleaner will evaporate in a couple seconds. Todays carb cleaner does not hurt rubber like the old stuff.

 

make sure you turn your carbs upside and blow (with your mouth) into gas hose first... this will ensure that your floats are sealing properly...(will simulate a full of gas condition)

 

good luck

 

 

PS,

don't forget to wear saftey glasses... that carb fluid is very hard on ones eyes...

Edited January 6, 2013 by CaptainJoe

[roehlerich]

I am down to just one hose coming from the crank case t split going out on the left side. No place to connect that. I had one hose from the canister that connected to the front left cylinder carb on the bottom. The bottom canister does not connect to anything, right?

Bike only runs on heavy choke and will not rev even when warm. Will buy new diaphragms now. Mine are pretty dry.

[Snaggletooth]

Does the canister look like the black one in the pic? Is so, it's a California model. I can't help you with that but someone else should come along with more info.

 

The middle .pdf file is the drain line mod from the air box. Nothing to do with the carbs directly but more hose confusion for a new owner.

 

Mike

[Snaggletooth]

Also, if you're in the mood to play with the diaphrams before replacing them, check this thread.

 

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=71496

 

If they aren't totally dried and cracked it might get you running. I've done this on several bikes with very good results. This spray will seal all the lil holes and seems to revitalize the rubber a bit giving it a lil more flex.

 

Not a permanent fix, but it holds up very well. Still have one set in my '84.

 

Mike

[bongobobny]

Ummm, one of the hoses from a carb on the left side goes up to the vacuum advance module mounted next to the TCI...

[roehlerich]

Ok, now this is interesting. I have a canister as you show it, but I did not attach the hose to the bottom of the canister bacuase of where it mounts to the frame. The picture confirms that I have the second hose correctly connected to the left front carb. The PDF you sent me shows that the drain hose from the T-piece goes back up to the air box. So there are 2 hoses coming down from the air box. One in the front and one in the back.

No idea why the canister you show has a hose attached to the bottom bec ause the nipple sits firm against the frame when you mount it. I will go with the PDF version and run the hose up the air box.

 

I did pull the diaphragms and use some silicone to fill the holes. The plastic is very dry on all 8 diaphragms I have. I bought a second set of carbs hoping the diaphragms would be better. I used the best 4. I will try to sync the carbs to make them run a little better. No idea why it wont idle at all without choke. I am running only on the two left cylinders until the other 2 kick in. I check the jets and they all looked good so I did not bother cleaning them.

[bongobobny]

I was not talking about the emissions canister, I am rreferring to the vacuum advance module that sets under the battery next to the TCI. I wish I still had the '85 so I could run out and take pictures for you...

[Marcarl]

There are 2 hoses going to the airbox. One is larger and fits in the back and middle of the airbox and also has a T in it and it goes into the intake so is classified as the PCV. You'll need a long 12" needle nose pliers to get that in place properly. The other goes to a small tit at the front left of the airbox and is just a drain hose.

[Yamamike]

I was not talking about the emissions canister, I am rreferring to the vacuum advance module that sets under the battery next to the TCI. I wish I still had the '85 so I could run out and take pictures for you...

 

I'm sure someone will pipe in if I'm mistaken but I think what you refer to as a vacuum advance is a cruise control actuator.

[Yamamike]

Also, if you're in the mood to play with the diaphrams before replacing them, check this thread.

 

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=71496

 

If they aren't totally dried and cracked it might get you running. I've done this on several bikes with very good results. This spray will seal all the lil holes and seems to revitalize the rubber a bit giving it a lil more flex.

 

Not a permanent fix, but it holds up very well. Still have one set in my '84.

 

Mike

 

Hey Mike...great info on the airbox fix. That will be the next item on my to do list for the off season. I find the effects of PMS are not quite as bad when I'm working on the ol' girl.

[roehlerich]

Yes, I do have one hose come from the intake boot on the front left cylinder going up somewhere. I assume that is to the cruise control. The hose to the vaccum canister is coming from the carb itself.

I just ordered the Diaphragms today. She starts and runs but not evenly on all 4 and only with choke. I will try to adjust the idle and sync the carbs while I am waiting for the diaphragms. I did not clean the carbs since they were dry and the first one I took apart was perfectly fine. Are there any idle jets I can get to now that the carbs are back on the bike to see why she won't idle right?

[bongobobny]

I'm sure someone will pipe in if I'm mistaken but I think what you refer to as a vacuum advance is a cruise control actuator.

No, that is in the upper fairing near the right turn signal. The vacuum advance is underneath the battery box right next to the stock location for the TCI. It "reads" the vacuum and then sends an electrical signal to the TCI to advance or retard the spark depending on what is needed. If that is disconnected it will run crappy including at idle. Not sure which hose goes to the advance on the '85 because they added that emissions canaster on the sidde with the '85 model.

 

Now, there are small diaphragms on the carb idle circuit as well that could be bad as well. There is a lot to those carbs that need attention. The symptoms the owner is experiencing sound like either a vacuum leak or something up with the primary idle circuit of the carbs. As far as syncing the mechanical setup at assembly is very important as well as the dynamic syncing of the carbs when running. I guess the next questio9n should be were the carbs disassembled or were the diaphragms removed while keeping all 4 carbs together as an assembly.

 

Another problem area is where the carb bases mate up with the cylinder heads. There is a rubber o ring at the base of each of them, and they can dry rot or develop leaks. The carb bases themselves have also been known to leak...

[bongobobny]

PS the idle jets should be set up properly with a CO "sniffer" by monitoring the exhaust gas from each cylinder after the carbs are close to sync if not completely sync'ed, although several members have just set them equal by turning them exactly out the same number of turns, 2 1/8 I think. They are below the diaphragm covers and hidden under a rubber plug...

[roehlerich]

I knew these bikes were complex, but OMG this is very detailed info and I really appreciate it. I will pull the battery box and see if there are any hoses going up into the right side of the fairing from where? I did not take the carbs completely apart. I onlt seperated each pair so that I could open up one bowl and check the condition.

The intake boot between the carbs and cylinder look fine. I think you are talking about the O-ring between the boot and cylinder, right? I never took the boots off.

 

The guy I bought it from said it was running fine and all of a sudden it ran like crap. He took it to the shop, they pulled the carbs and they said the diphragms were bad. I do not think that they even opening all 4 slide covers. I still have one that has 3 stripped screws. But the 3 I took out did have small holes and were very dry. I guess I will have to do a full inspection of all jets and such on the spare set of carbs I have to see what might be wrong.

 

Putting these carbs back onto the bike was not fun by myself. And the throttle cables are a real PITA.

[KIC]

Use a fox pair of dikes (wire cutters) to loosen the screws on the diaghram cover. One good bite should loosen them. Go to Harbor Freight and get the large set of needle nose pliers. One has a bent tip. They will help you with the air cleaner hoses and much more.

[roehlerich]

OK. Got the last OLD diaphragm out and install another one of my siliconed one.

Synced the carbs. Idles better but again, only under choke. I can get it to rev up to about 5k when pushing the throttle quickly past the dead point. If I move it slowly the bike dies. Revs evenly under choke up/down so I think the choke passages in the carbs are fine. I will wait for the new diaphragms and slip them in. Also installed new plugs just to be sure. If all else fails, I will pull the carbs again and check the jets.

[Yamamike]

OK. Got the last OLD diaphragm out and install another one of my siliconed one.

Synced the carbs. Idles better but again, only under choke. I can get it to rev up to about 5k when pushing the throttle quickly past the dead point. If I move it slowly the bike dies. Revs evenly under choke up/down so I think the choke passages in the carbs are fine. I will wait for the new diaphragms and slip them in. Also installed new plugs just to be sure. If all else fails, I will pull the carbs again and check the jets.

 

Sounds to me like one or more idle circuits plugged. M2C

[roehlerich]

I am hoping the new diaphragms will do the trick. The old ones are dry and probably do not pull properly under low throttle. But you are right, they should not be in play at idle at all.

[roehlerich]

Update:

 

Installed new diaphragms today but the result is the same. I touch the throttle, the rpms bog down. carbs are synced. This happened to the PO on a ride on is way home. All of a sudden bike would not run right. I guess I have to completely take the carbs apart and check the intake boots for cracks as well.

[roehlerich]

Update:

 

Got a second set of Carbs as previsously mentioned from FleeBay. They are exactly the same BUT the slides are not. They bind up when trying to push them in if you are mixing them up like I did.

 

So I got the 4 correct slides, ripped 2 diaphragms trying to take them off the wrong ones to move them over to the right ones (waiting for 2 replacements) but the bike now starts, runs and idles with 2 new and 2 old (repaired with sealant for now) diaphragms.

 

Another interesting issue is that the Fleebay carbs do not have a FAT nipple on the front left Carb like the original set does but a thinner one. I have the CA carbon filter canister on my bike. So I just made it fit and kept the canister for now.

 

I did not do a full carbs rebuild but just a cleaning of the idle jets. I did not pull the choke or small diaphragms apart since the first one I looked at was good.

 

Thanks to all for your help. Could not have done it without you. 108k miles on this baby. Now I just need to see why I have no rear brake. :-)

 

One thing at a time...

[Venturous Randy]

Update:

 

Got a second set of Carbs as previsously mentioned from FleeBay. They are exactly the same BUT the slides are not. They bind up when trying to push them in if you are mixing them up like I did.

 

Another interesting issue is that the Fleebay carbs do not have a FAT nipple on the front left Carb like the original set does but a thinner one. I have the CA carbon filter canister on my bike. So I just made it fit and kept the canister for now.

 

I

 

One thing at a time...

 

Sounds to me like you got a set of 83 carbs. The smaller nipple is for the boost sensor and it is taking vacuum from a diferent place than where your 85 bike does.

BTW, how about adding your bike to the header so someone does not have to go to your profile to see what year your bike is.

RandyA

[roehlerich]

I have the vacuum hose connected to the intake boot. That is correct?

The smaller nipple is at the top on front left carb just like the fatter one was.

 

I am using the 83 carbs on this bike. Have not taking it out yet but they seem to be fine. Just weird that the slides are just a little different. The springs are not interchangeable either for the slides. One set is a little wider in diameter and will not fit into the 83 slides.