R6 & De-link Brake Questions

[luke000]

OK so I have 3 (probably simple) questions about doing an upgrade to R6 front brakes with stainless lines; I am also going to delink the system. I am going to order the calipers tomorrow. #1 As for the master cylinder will my current one work (IE is mine a 14mm or a 5/8)? #2 When I remove a line from the rear master cylinder what port will I use for the new brake and what port will I block off? And what kind of bolt do I use to block that port off? #3 For the front lines is a V-Max splitter necessary to use or can I use something like this https://www.denniskirk.com/russell/brake-line-fitting-male-3-t-junction-r4298c.p191349.prd/191349.sku OR just run a double banjo bolt and 2 seperate lines from the master to the calipers? I looked and could not find a clear answer to my question, and I know they are probably simple to answer. Thanks ahead of time everyone! And yes I know I said I have 3 questions and there was closer to 4

[dingy]

14mm master will work OK.

 

On the rear master, I removed line going to front end and plugged this port. Also required is to open the proportioning valve on the rear master and remove the spring, cup and plunger. This provides a clear path for fluid to travel while not needing to change rear brake hose. Picture attached of gutted parts. Leave gutted proportioning valve on master cyl.

 

As far as front hoses, my choice was to put a VMax splitter in, ebay has them often for $10 or less. I made a small offset bracket to lower splitter about 3/4" so upper hose length was close.

 

Front brakes are a PIA to bleed when this is done for some people. Speed bleeders & a mighty vac will be your best friend.

 

Also when you think you have tried everything to get them to bleed, take a zip tie and clamp the brake lever tight against throttle. Leave it like this overnight. Tap lines gently a few times to encourage very small bubbles to rise to top. Next day release pressure on handle, but don't pump yet. Crack upper banjo bolt at master cyl and gently press lever with rag underneath. This will get bubbles out that rose overnight. It works, Yammer Dan was the founder of this one.. All Hail Dan.

 

Gary

[luke000]

14mm master will work OK.

 

On the rear master, I removed line going to front end and plugged this port. Also required is to open the proportioning valve on the rear master and remove the spring, cup and plunger. This provides a clear path for fluid to travel while not needing to change rear brake hose. Picture attached of gutted parts. Leave gutted proportioning valve on master cyl.

 

As far as front hoses, my choice was to put a VMax splitter in, ebay has them often for $10 or less. I made a small offset bracket to lower splitter about 3/4" so upper hose length was close.

 

Front brakes are a PIA to bleed when this is done for some people. Speed bleeders & a mighty vac will be your best friend.

 

Also when you think you have tried everything to get them to bleed, take a zip tie and clamp the brake lever tight against throttle. Leave it like this overnight. Tap lines gently a few times to encourage very small bubbles to rise to top. Next day release pressure on handle, but don't pump yet. Crack upper banjo bolt at master cyl and gently press lever with rag underneath. This will get bubbles out that rose overnight. It works, Yammer Dan was the founder of this one.. All Hail Dan.

 

Gary

 

Thanks for the quick response! What did you use to block off the front port on the rear master? My project for tomorrow (besides picking up my wheels i dropped off to get my new tires mounted and working on my mufflers) is to try and remove a bolt the PO stripped the head on for the front master cap So if SHTF and I cant figure out a way to get it out i may be in the market for a new master anyways

[Squidley]

Luke,

 

I dont know if you knew about this kit in the classifieds

 

http://www.venturerider.org/classifieds/showproduct.php?product=3878&title=first-gens-sbrake-line-delink-kit-21&cat=22

 

Here is something to keep in mind, when I changed my front brakes over, I ran into an issue with the banjo bolts, here's a link to a write up I did.

 

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=65356

 

If you run into issues give me a call, my # is in my profile.

 

"On the rear master, I removed line going to front end and plugged this port. Also required is to open the proportioning valve on the rear master and remove the spring, cup and plunger. This provides a clear path for fluid to travel while not needing to change rear brake hose. Picture attached of gutted parts. Leave gutted proportioning valve on master cyl."

 

Thats a great idea Gary, I never even thought about that. I'm going to do this on my '86 as I have delinked the brakes on it.

[dingy]

Thanks for the quick response! What did you use to block off the front port on the rear master?

 

10mm x 1.25 x 16mm long I think. but it will be same thread as banjo bolt you pull out of hole, only shorter & fully threaded. Use a copper washer on this.

 

 

McMaster has the copper sealing washers, $7.61 + shipping for 25 washers. Extremely fast shipping.

 

http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/118/3240/=kszdzi

 

Gary

[Condor]

McMaster has the copper sealing washers, $7.61 + shipping for 25 washers. Extremely fast shipping.

 

http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/118/3240/=kszdzi

 

Gary

 

This is a screaming deal. Both Honda and Yamaha dealers try to get $3+ each for the washers. Didn't have any luck finding them anywhere else. I picked up a bag last year. Now all I have to do is figure out what I did with them.....

[greg_in_london]

I'm thinking back several years here, but I do know that I swapped my fron master cylinder for a 5/8" (14mm) one, so I'm presuming that the standard one was 1/2" (13mm), else I would not have had to change it. If you have a 5/8" one fitted already then that will do.

 

I just used two hose lines from the master cylinder and a longer banjo bolt, but any combination that connects to both sides will work. Just make sure you measure the lengths with the fork legs fully extended, or going over bumps it might pull tight.

 

I agree that getting rid of the proportioning valve is a good idea. If you are fitting SS hoses (ie replacing the original) then you can remove the whole unit. I have a vague recollection that you can remove the part where both banjos are connected, which I reconnected when I connected up the sidecar brake, but I would need to go out and look at it in the garage to be sure.

[Condor]

Just re-read your original post, and one thing you didn't cover was the compatability of the R6 calipers to the '83. Be prepared, you're going to have to replace the front forks with a set off an '86+. The '83 fork caliper holes are 88mm, and your R6's have a 100mm spread. I might also add that I did this to my '83. The increase in stopping power was impressive, and all I did was replace the calipers....

I know Gary has been playing around with different types of caliper mounts. I bet if he designed something to adapt the 88 to 100 there'd be a heck of a market for them???

[luke000]

Just re-read your original post, and one thing you didn't cover was the compatability of the R6 calipers to the '83. Be prepared, you're going to have to replace the front forks with a set off an '86+. The '83 fork caliper holes are 88mm, and your R6's have a 100mm spread. I might also add that I did this to my '83. The increase in stopping power was impressive, and all I did was replace the calipers....

I know Gary has been playing around with different types of caliper mounts. I bet if he designed something to adapt the 88 to 100 there'd be a heck of a market for them???

 

Actually I bought an '86 Royale, I just realized that my profile says '83 for some reason. Changed it, and bought some calipers a few days ago and I got them yesterday . I am a little short on cash for a few weeks so it will be a little while (February) until I can get the new SS lines. Since my last post I have rebuilt the rear master, gutted the proportioning valve, & blocked off the front port. I rebuilt the rear caliper (PITA removing the 4 frozen pistons)

[Carbon_One]

Actually I bought an '86 Royale, I just realized that my profile says '83 for some reason. Changed it, and bought some calipers a few days ago and I got them yesterday . I am a little short on cash for a few weeks so it will be a little while (February) until I can get the new SS lines. Since my last post I have rebuilt the rear master, gutted the proportioning valve, & blocked off the front port. I rebuilt the rear caliper (PITA removing the 4 frozen pistons)

Luke I've got extra copper washers so that's 1 less item to buy. I'll bring them to the M&E unless you need them before hand. Let me know and we'll get em to ya.

Larry

[luke000]

Luke I've got extra copper washers so that's 1 less item to buy. I'll bring them to the M&E unless you need them before hand. Let me know and we'll get em to ya.

Larry

 

Dont worry about the washers, I have a dozen left over from my last project. OR if I was a real cheap a$$ I would just re-anneal the old ones (not doing that)

[jasonm.]

someone says the 14mm master will work okay. For me I want it to work perfectly or give max possible stopping, 5/8" is what I use. I don't cheap out on these things. Do you want to slow down then stop or just stop, be able to lock the front brake? It's your life...5/8" is the ticket. I suggest you look at an R1 or R6...see what they come stock with for master bore.

[Squeeze]

someone says the 14mm master will work okay. For me I want it to work perfectly or give max possible stopping, 5/8" is what I use. I don't cheap out on these things. Do you want to slow down then stop or just stop, be able to lock the front brake? It's your life...5/8" is the ticket. I suggest you look at an R1 or R6...see what they come stock with for master bore.

 

Those R1/R6 come with a 14mm Master.

 

5/8 " will work, yes, but 14 mm will give a better feeling at the Lever, 5/8" is kinda "digital" Brake Feeling for a Lot of People.

[Condor]

someone says the 14mm master will work okay. For me I want it to work perfectly or give max possible stopping, 5/8" is what I use. I don't cheap out on these things. Do you want to slow down then stop or just stop, be able to lock the front brake? It's your life...5/8" is the ticket. I suggest you look at an R1 or R6...see what they come stock with for master bore.

 

Locking up the front brakes will not increase stopping power, just the opposite. Traction will, and that something that is almost constant, given tire size possibilities, and the amount of the tire that actually contacts the pavement. That's why ABS brakes will do so much better in a panic stop. They are designed to keep the tire patch on the road and prevent lockup and sliding.. 14mm masters will do just fine to run the calipers. One of the last things you want to do is make the front brakes touchy....

[jasonm.]

14mm really...hum...Well, that may have changed. Because I have seen a 2003 R1 w/ 5/8. It had the same calipers as R/6. I guess there was a change...exact year of change I do not know. I do know , "feel" is a relative term. I do know, no matter how hard you squeeze my lever, cannot go closer than 3/4" from the grip. Oh, I am forget ...I am using FJ1200 calipers. But it still holds true that Yamaha changed the master to 5/8. When and why, not sure. Maybe there's an unseeable change in the calipers too? After close to 40 years in the saddle...25 on this bike. Whether it's pads or other parts in the system. I always stick to having the max. stopping potential available. Otherwise you are riding a Honda...

[Squeeze]

Well, 5/8" IS the right Master for FJ1200 Calipers, but not for the blue Star R1's ....

 

I never saw a 5/8" Master on a R1 or R6