RSV-Hannigan Trike fender-light bar clearance

[Cougar]

That fork should be flush with the top of that tree ,

was this that low when you took it apart or did you

loosen it?

are you sure this trike was raked? is that the Hannigan

Tree on there?

 

[ATTACH]73090[/ATTACH]

 

look at yours against mine. notice it is more of a square cut

and notice the notch as well

[Cougar]

Also , if the clamps were loose and they go back the were there supposed to

be you do NOT have to re do the springs in the shock.

[Cougar]

thinking more research before he gets WAY to involved more then he is now.

[First_N_Last]

That fork should be flush with the top of that tree ,

was this that low when you took it apart or did you

loosen it?

are you sure this trike was raked? is that the Hannigan

Tree on there?

 

[ATTACH]73090[/ATTACH]

 

look at yours against mine. notice it is more of a square cut

and notice the notch as well

 

------------------------------------

That fork was loose & all the way up when I disassembled it.

It is so loose that you could twist it & move it up and down with one hand.

 

I have the Hannigan invoice for the conversion which lists the rake kit (EZ Steer).

It is raked as compared to my 2008 RSV I own till I sell it (hopefully soon).

[First_N_Last]

Also , if the clamps were loose and they go back the were there supposed to

be you do NOT have to re do the springs in the shock.

 

 

I hear what you are saying, but...

 

 

• I am way in to this tear down at this point just do do a limited repair by locking down & reassembly
  
• the previous owner noticed the first dent in the fender over 3 years ago - so it is reasonable to assume that fork had been completely loose & pushed up since then
  
• if one fork was completely loose & the other was in place, the firm fork spring had been subjected to all the front end weight & added weight because the front was 2 inches lower causing more weight to the front & that one spring
  
• to check springs for spec wear you have to open the fork caps & pull the springs out & measure them
  
• if I have to pull the springs out to check, I might as well replace them with an upgrade
  
• no way would I reassemble at this tear down point without checking a three year abused spring
  

Doesn't that make sense?

[First_N_Last]

That fork should be flush with the top of that tree ,

was this that low when you took it apart or did you

loosen it?

are you sure this trike was raked? is that the Hannigan

Tree on there?

 

[ATTACH]73090[/ATTACH]

 

look at yours against mine. notice it is more of a square cut

and notice the notch as well

 

Here is a more similar angle... do they look similar now?

[ragtop69gs]

Makes total sense to replace the springs at this point. Also check for internal damage to the right fork.

 

Seems to me that should have been obvious when sitting on the bike. You had no strange handling with it like that? I can feel it when my forks are not inflated to the same pressure.

When and where was the conversion done? I'd be talking with whoever did the conversion.

I Got my fingers crossed that you don't find any stripped fasteners.

 

Does that top clamp have Hannigan engraved in it?

Good luck

[Cougar]

YUP! good luck my friend on what your doing!

I sure would not want to do this job. take lots

of pics. thanks.

[First_N_Last]

Thanks to all comments, suggestions, warnings & exclamations from all the web site members. Pro or con - they help.

 

It helps a lot as you get in deeper than you want into a problem. It makes you feel like there are people right there with you helping.

 

Thank you!

[First_N_Last]

Makes total sense to replace the springs at this point. Also check for internal damage to the right fork.

 

Seems to me that should have been obvious when sitting on the bike. You had no strange handling with it like that? I can feel it when my forks are not inflated to the same pressure.

When and where was the conversion done? I'd be talking with whoever did the conversion.

I Got my fingers crossed that you don't find any stripped fasteners.

 

Does that top clamp have Hannigan engraved in it?

Good luck

 

 

Jay,

The only symptoms I noticed are...

 

• bike was set low in the front - I thought it was from the rake
  
• front end vibration over 77 mph
  
• front brake vibration when hard stopping - I thought related to 77+ vibration & wheel balance
  

Initially I thought a wheel balance would fix all until the added denting.

 

Prior to this, my only Trike experience was a Voyager sort-of-trike.

 

 

John

[ragtop69gs]

We have 2 RSV's , my '01 2 wheeler and my wife's '08 Hannigan. The trike has the ez steer and it sets almost identical to mine. The top clamp has Hannigan engraved in it and the fork tubes are flush with the top surface of the top clamp.

I have the rear coil overs set to the middle setting and the neck bearing torqued to 43 pd/ft, both made a world of difference in the way the bike handles. When we got the trike the rear shock was too soft and the neck bearing was way too loose and the tire pressures were all low and different, the bike was squirrelly and un-predictable handling, now it handles like a corvette in the curves.

 

I would suspect that the vibration was from the wheel twisting to the side while on the brakes or the fork tube shaking in the clamps.

 

The folks I bought ours from didn't have a clue and thought there was a major flaw because of the way it handled, which is why I got it for the price I did.

[First_N_Last]

Too cold to continue work efforts today.

[First_N_Last]

We have 2 RSV's , my '01 2 wheeler and my wife's '08 Hannigan. The trike has the ez steer and it sets almost identical to mine. The top clamp has Hannigan engraved in it and the fork tubes are flush with the top surface of the top clamp.

I have the rear coil overs set to the middle setting and the neck bearing torqued to 43 pd/ft, both made a world of difference in the way the bike handles. When we got the trike the rear shock was too soft and the neck bearing was way too loose and the tire pressures were all low and different, the bike was squirrelly and un-predictable handling, now it handles like a corvette in the curves.

 

I would suspect that the vibration was from the wheel twisting to the side while on the brakes or the fork tube shaking in the clamps.

 

The folks I bought ours from didn't have a clue and thought there was a major flaw because of the way it handled, which is why I got it for the price I did.

 

Thanks for the info

[StarFan]

Seems to me that quite many Venture owners have had the problem of the lightbar hitting the fender. Have an insurance bike that has two dents in the front fender from the lightbar. The forks are sticking up from the tree since the bike has been lowered in the front. Previous owner told me he has never put air in the tubes nor checked the pressure and most likely that caused the denting as well as he might have exceeded the maximum linit of the tubes sticking up from the tree.. When lowering the front one has to be careful not to exceed the maximum,that is the tubes sticking up more than 1 1/2 inches. That is an absolute maximum. Apart from that, airpressure has to be controlled at all times and I fully agree that putting in stiffer springs and changing the oil to a more heavyweight oil is a logical thing to do. When I get home to Iceland from Norway (at work) I will pick up the bike from the insurance company and the first thing I will do is to set the forks at 3/4 inch max, new oil and have the fender repaired as well as other repairs needed. Don´t want to see that fender being dented by the lightbar again. If I was gonna keep the bike I would surely put in stiffer springs.

Good luck with Hannigan.

 

Friendly regards from Iceland,

 

Jonas

[First_N_Last]

Seems to me that quite many Venture owners have had the problem of the lightbar hitting the fender. Have an insurance bike that has two dents in the front fender from the lightbar. The forks are sticking up from the tree since the bike has been lowered in the front. Previous owner told me he has never put air in the tubes nor checked the pressure and most likely that caused the denting as well as he might have exceeded the maximum linit of the tubes sticking up from the tree.. When lowering the front one has to be careful not to exceed the maximum,that is the tubes sticking up more than 1 1/2 inches. That is an absolute maximum. Apart from that, airpressure has to be controlled at all times and I fully agree that putting in stiffer springs and changing the oil to a more heavyweight oil is a logical thing to do. When I get home to Iceland from Norway (at work) I will pick up the bike from the insurance company and the first thing I will do is to set the forks at 3/4 inch max, new oil and have the fender repaired as well as other repairs needed. Don´t want to see that fender being dented by the lightbar again. If I was gonna keep the bike I would surely put in stiffer springs.

Good luck with Hannigan.

 

Friendly regards from Iceland,

 

Jonas

 

Thanks for the comments Jonas...

 

As soon as I get this money pit back together & figure out a nice fast route to ride to Iceland, I'll ride over & see you. Just keep checking your driveway for a black RSV Hannigan Trike with seaweed on it!

[First_N_Last]

Well it is a bright sunny morning...

 

I spent 15 minutes & did the last front fork checks & here are the notes:

 

• both left & right top Triple tree fork tube locking bolts were not socket wrench tight. They could easily be loosened with one hand & a normal allen wrench.
  
• left bottom fork tube locking bolt was snug, but easily turned with an allen wrench & two fingers
  
• right bottom fork tube locking bolt was socket wrench tight like it should be - I have to go buy the socket/allen bits just to loosen it.
  
• I pulled the right fork spring & measured it. it should be 22 1/2" long. it was a little compressed to a little under spec. I'm replacing them with progressive springs, for safety. The internals of the fork seem to be ok (lucky).
  

 

My opinion is that both bolts for the left fork & the top bolt for the right were hand tightened & never torqued to spec. The nut holding the fairing bracket to the top left bolt was also left hand tight & forgotten which is why it fell off. The only properly tightened bolt was the right lower bolt.

 

Latter today I'll have the steering bearings re-greased & trees re-assembled. Then the final front-end parts list for final repair will be completed.

By the way, my Hannigan Trees have no etching on them, but I still have the receipt/invoice & they are obviously raked.

 

Damn, this is way too much work. I'm beginning to dream about this front suspension.

 

JohnB

Edited December 14, 2012 by First_N_Last

[ragtop69gs]

With all that was loose,i'm surprised that the bike even tracked straight down the road! Someone must have had that front end apart, I can't imagine it being that way since the conversion was done. Every Hannigan rake kit I've seen had the engraving on the top tree. Maybe it's an aftermarket setup.

 

Well... at least there was no damage to the tubes. Let us know what the bearings look like (how much grease). While it's apart, You may want to think about welding up the breather hole in the neck tube and installing a couple zerk fittings to grease the bearings again at a later date. If you search the 2nd gen forums you'll find a few posts about how to do it.

[First_N_Last]

With all that was loose,i'm surprised that the bike even tracked straight down the road! Someone must have had that front end apart, I can't imagine it being that way since the conversion was done. Every Hannigan rake kit I've seen had the engraving on the top tree. Maybe it's an aftermarket setup.

 

Well... at least there was no damage to the tubes. Let us know what the bearings look like (how much grease). While it's apart, You may want to think about welding up the breather hole in the neck tube and installing a couple zerk fittings to grease the bearings again at a later date. If you search the 2nd gen forums you'll find a few posts about how to do it.

 

The biggest handling weirdness I noticed on the ride home was on a high speed (75mph) curve to the right. The Trike felt like it was loose & wanted to jump off the road to the left whenever it hit road roughness or small bumps.

 

I didn't notice that issue on a curve to the left.

 

One again, this conversion (S/N hantrk09057) & Steer Lite (md-463-rls) installation was done in 12/18/2008 in Murray, KY - Invoice number 2636 - S.O. number 2506.

 

Regarding the zerks - If this was not raked, I'd do that, but because it is raked, I think it would be better to disassemble, inspect & grease. With the rake, extra stem/bearing torquing and angled weight distribution, I personally will feel better inspecting also than just greasing. Just my opinion - others can do what they want.

 

Thanks for your thoughts Jay

[First_N_Last]

ANALYSIS IS COMPLETE

 

This analysis is based on discoveries from front end dis-assembly...

communications with previous owner...

communications with Hannigan...

 

Here are results of my analysis along with my conclusion(s) for every symptom noted:

 

• SYMPTOM – front end vibration over 77 mph & front brake vibration when hard stopping
  CONCLUSION – not related to front fork clearance issue – may have contributed to slipping of left fork up
  This will be check latter by wheel balance & rotor inspection for warping
  
• SYMPTOM – bike set low in front
  CONCLUSION – I can’t say for certain that the bike was low when I picked it up. I am certain that it was low when I stopped at a local bike shop on the way home to pick up an inspection tag plate.
  
• SYMPTOM – single dent in front fender noticed three years ago
  CONCLUSION – dent was caused by insufficient clearance – that was caused by a lower light-bar standoff block, 6 degree rack transmitting impacts more directly up the forks & weak standard fork suspension of RSV. All raked RSV front forks should have oil changed from 5 to 15 weight, fork springs upgraded to “Progressive” springs & the fork tubes should be adjusted so that the top of the forks are flush with the top of the Triple Tree.
  
• SYMPTOM – On the way home, the Trike felt like it was loose & wanted to jump off the road to the left whenever it hit road roughness or small bumps on a curve to the right.
  CONCLUSION – This had to be after the left fork had slid up in the trees on the way home.
  
• SYMPTOM – added denting to the front fender
  CONCLUSION – This had to be after the left fork had slid up in the trees on the way home & normal high speed highway bumps.
  
• SYMPTOM – missing nut & looseness of many critical fork mount tightening bolts.
  CONCLUSION – This problem was caused by improper torque-ing of the bolts & nut. The question is, “Who is responsible for the looseness?”
  PREVIOUS OWNER says he didn’t touch those bolts/nut & that no work was done regarding them either.
  HANNIGAN says that it could never be something they missed during installation & conversion. They further state that “Traumatic Events” were the probable cause of the mounting bolts looseness. I will concede that a bump caused it to eventually slide up. NO WAY do “Traumatic Events” cause properly torqued bolts to loosen.
   
  SOMEONE had worked on those bolts & did not TORQUE them properly.
  I just won’t ever know who.
  
• SYMPTOM – right fork spring check of length is slightly below spec
  CONCLUSION – don’t care at this point because I’m replacing them with Progressive Springs.
  All raked RSVs should have Progressive Springs installed & all four fork mount bolts torqued properly
  
• SYMPTOM – even with the fork tube sliding up, the ride of the RSV-Hannigan Trike was GREAT
  CONCLUSION – a RSV-Hannigan Trike is a great buy. Just be sure to change fork springs for Progressive Springs at installation time.
  

SUMMARY

Either the previous owner, a repair effort or the Trike installer left the fork mount bolts loose.

 

 

The previous owner has no obligation to help with the cost of repair parts. He hast not helped.

 

The Trike conversion business has no obligation to help with the cost of repair parts (2 years out of warranty), The business was certain to state their warranty terms & that they could NEVER have improperly torqued the bolts. They firmly would not help with repair parts.

 

So there you have it. Obviously my Guardian Bell is defective! A Guardian Bell is suppose to rid a Royal star Venture of Gremlins. It failed & those damn Gremlins loosened those bolts causing the problem.

 

 

ARGH!

Damn Gremlins!

 

 

 

I hope everyone learned by my endured suffering & laughed with me laughing at myself.

Of course I will affect repairs shortly.

 

 

I hold no malice towards the previous owner nor Hannigan.

Hannigan makes the best Trike conversion for the RSV.

I just had hoped that they would treat me as they themselves hope to be treated by others.

 

JohnB

 

 

By the way – I have owned & ridden bikes since 1965. Personally, I have owned over two dozen bikes. My experience with other riders of bikes is in the hundreds.

 

In all of that – NEVER NEVER NEVER have I heard of fork tubes being loose & riding up in the mounts (that were properly serviced/installed).

 

 

I’ve bent a few from “traumatic events”, but NEVER had them loosen.

 

 

!!!!Damn Gremlins!!!!

[First_N_Last]

More news…

 

One of my board friends checked out the add photos of my Trike when it was being sold.

It seems that the Fork tube looseness problem existed way back in June of this year!

I magnified the picture & cropped it. Then I circled the top of the left fork tube.

 

Here is the photo for reference – fate is amazing...

[First_N_Last]

Jay,

The only symptoms I noticed are...

 

• bike was set low in the front - I thought it was from the rake
  
• front end vibration over 77 mph
  
• front brake vibration when hard stopping - I thought related to 77+ vibration & wheel balance
  

Initially I thought a wheel balance would fix all until the added denting.

 

Prior to this, my only Trike experience was a Voyager sort-of-trike.

 

Regarding the noted symptom - front brake vibration with hard stopping...

 

I removed the front wheels from my 2008 RSV & my Trike - swapped the wheels & put Trike wheel on 2008 RSV.

Then I test drove it with the wheel from the Trike.

There was no vibration during hard stops or any other problem with the wheel noted.

 

The braking vibration with the wheel on the Trike was undoubtedly caused by the loose front fork tubes.

That is a relief to know that the rotors or wheel are not the cause.

All the parts are now in to repair/mod/reinstall the fork tubes. Soon...

 

JohnnyB

[ragtop69gs]

You better slow down John

 

Cougar is going to love you if you keep talking about relays, especially if you add another dozen or so !

[First_N_Last]

You better slow down John

 

Cougar is going to love you if you keep talking about relays, especially if you add another dozen or so !

 

I'm very close to starting to sell the 2008 RSV. Just have to clean it up & take photos - then I'll place the adds. It is all checked over & ready to ride. With a little luck, that part of my signature will go away like my Voyager Kit has had (sold).