How does Stabil work?

[frankd]

Does anybody know what exactly Stabil does to gasoline so that it doesn't go bad? I know that it makes some bikes run a bit funny....why does this happen?

 

Frank D.

[Guest tx2sturgis]

Yes, but if I told you....well....you know the rest.

 

[dacheedah]

I have always used marine stabil, I double it up for winter storage and have used in my bikes, tractor, boats and jet skis without a problem. You need to run it into your carbs and fill the tank up. Rode the bike yesterday but that way it's ready to park.

[leo3wheel]

Q: What is the difference between Marine Formula STA-BIIL®, STA-BIL® Fuel Stabilizer, and the new STA-BIL® Ethanol Treatment products?

A: Marine Formula STA-BIL® Ethanol Treatment was designed for use at every fill up for marine engines (boats, jetskis) to protect against the damaging effects experienced when using Ethanol blended fuels -- including corrosion caused by water attraction, and fuel system plugging caused by deposit loosening.

STA-BIL® Fuel Stabilizer is designed for use during STORAGE of any gasoline equipment or vehicle stored for 30 days or more, or used infrequently. It will keep gas fresh for 12 months, and help prevent corrosion, and gum and varnish formation.

New STA-BIL® Ethanol Treatment is designed for use at every fill up for all gasoline automotive and small engines for protection against these same problems.

 

All STA-BIL® brand products are effective in all gasolines, including Ethanol blends, including E-85.

 

Q: How does Marine Formula STA-BIL® Ethanol Treatment handle water?

A: Ethanol blended fuels can naturally hold up to 4 tbsp of water per gallon (about 0.5%) before phase separation occurs. Marine Formula STA-BIL® Ethanol Treatment contains a chemical that will absorb an additional fraction of a percent of water above this amount (around 0.2%), by bonding with the water molecules, allowing this additional amount to pass safely through the engine and out through the tailpipe. Any amount above this will drop to the bottom and phase separate. Removing large amounts of water (more than 0.75%) through bonding will cause poor power/acceleration and sometimes cause the engine to quit. Additionally, it can cause catastrophic engine damage. No engine manufacturer recommends removal of these large amounts of water through bonding.

 

Q: Does Marine Formula STA-BIL® have the same stabilization characteristics as STA-BIL® Fuel Stabilizer?

A: STA-BIL® Fuel Stabilizer is the recommended additive for extended storage. Marine Formula STA-BIL® can stabilize fuel if used in the proper concentration for up to 12 months, but is designed for EVERY DAY USE to protect against the damaging effects experienced when using Ethanol blended fuels.

 

http://www.goldeagle.com/brands/stabil/faq.aspx#286

[First_N_Last]

yea, but I bet it won't remove warts, remove age spots or soften skin like Sea Foam.

[leo3wheel]

Actually, put both SeaFoam and STA-BIL for long term storage. Trike seems to like it.

[saddlebum]

According to Seafoams web site it will treat ethanol fuels up to e-85 and stadilize fuel up to 2 years so there is no need to add stabil

 

http://www.seafoamsales.com/motor-treatment.html

 

http://www.seafoamsales.com/gasoline-engine-faqs.html

[Mike G in SC]

Also, look into STARTRON. More like Stabil but also nails ethanol.

 

http://mystarbrite.com/startron/

 

Now at most auto parts stores. Look in WalMart in the boat section.

My Yamaha dealer sells it, especally for his watercraft.

[ragtop69gs]

CAUTION

 

 

Using both SeaFoam and STA-BIL will cause old age and an overweight condition Combining both should be avoided at all costs!

[frankd]

Gentlemen,

 

I've read the Stabil website this afternoon looking for my answer (not there), and yes, I've installed it correctly and run it into the carbs for many years, but what I was asking was HOW it works. I think somebody big on chemistry could provide the answer I'm looking for. I mean, exactly how does it keep the gas fresh? Inquiring minds want to know.

 

Frank

[leo3wheel]

CAUTION

 

 

Using both SeaFoam and STA-BIL will cause old age and an overweight condition Combining both should be avoided at all costs!

 

It's inevitable!

[leo3wheel]

Gentlemen,

 

I've read the Stabil website this afternoon looking for my answer (not there), and yes, I've installed it correctly and run it into the carbs for many years, but what I was asking was HOW it works. I think somebody big on chemistry could provide the answer I'm looking for. I mean, exactly how does it keep the gas fresh? Inquiring minds want to know.

 

Frank

 

Goldeagle does not publish this information. It is proprietary.

[saddlebum]

Gentlemen,

 

I've read the Stabil website this afternoon looking for my answer (not there), and yes, I've installed it correctly and run it into the carbs for many years, but what I was asking was HOW it works. I think somebody big on chemistry could provide the answer I'm looking for. I mean, exactly how does it keep the gas fresh? Inquiring minds want to know.

 

Frank

Thats easy.........By not letting it get OLD.

[dacheedah]

I love marine stabol, and my experience is it works in your gas but don't put any in your blinker fluid. It will make it flash fast. . .

[VentureYZ]

Just us AV Gas that airplanes use. It is 100 octane and will NEVER go stale. I mix it 50/50

with Sunoco 91 Octane.

[LilBeaver]

Gentlemen,

 

I've read the Stabil website this afternoon looking for my answer (not there), and yes, I've installed it correctly and run it into the carbs for many years, but what I was asking was HOW it works. I think somebody big on chemistry could provide the answer I'm looking for. I mean, exactly how does it keep the gas fresh? Inquiring minds want to know.

 

Frank

 

Frank:

 

I do not know how up you are on your science so I will start with a sort of 'quick and dirty' explanation and leave it to you to ask the questions you need in order to fill in the blanks. This is a bit topic that I could write a lot about but will try to keep it reasonably concise.

 

The exact chemical formulation may proprietary to each company BUT the chemistry and physics of the reactions are ALL the same. I will only discuss the 'keeping the fuel fresh' function of stabilizers [since that is what you asked for] that are treated especially with the 'hot topic' of the higher ethanol content in standard petrol/gasoline that seems to keep making the news.

 

First, to discuss the ethanol aspect of the problem. Ethanol is used as an additive to the gasoline mixtures to perform as desired in the application for which they are used. For example, in the automotive application, the fuel needs to ignite at a certain temperature and pressure (more specifically it needs to be a vapor, then ignite within the cylinder AT the end of the compression stroke). A problem with ethanol is that it is highly volatile [with respect to phase stability] -- that is to say that there are extensive numbers of dangling bonds that are available for hydrogen bonding to other atoms or molecular structures -- a direct result of which is that it will evaporate quickly when allowed to contact with other H or O rich environments, such as the atmosphere (which includes H2, water vapor, etc etc). It is true that Ethanol easily bonds with water molecules, but it is also true that since it evaporates quickly, if sat for long enough the gasoline that originally contains say 10% ethanol in a closed container, will have a much lower concentration of the ethanol in the liquid form and a higher concentration in the vapor form (in the 'air' layer within the tank). With a lower concentration of the ethanol in the mixture, the gasoline mixture that is THEN in the tank no longer has the same properties that it originally had when it comes to expected combustible properties.

According to the MSDS, Stabil contains 95% propanol and 5% 'additional additives'. Propanol (also known as isopropanol, isrpropyl alcohol, IPA, or rubbing alcohol) has a chemical structure of C3H8O. This structure has O and H available for additional bonding and an electron affinity lower than that of 'air' so the ethanol bonding to the propanol is energetically favorable and, in turn, means that when mixed in with the liquid gasoline more of the propanol (stabil) bonds with the ethanol and keeps the appropriate ethanol concentration IN the liquid/aqueous form of solution instead of letting it evaporate out into the air.

The 5% additional additive (in stabil -- according to the MSDS data sheet) is Pentadecanoic acid (C15H30O2) which is an oxidizing agent that is stable.

 

The other functions of the stabilizer contribute to minimizing corrosion and stuff like that. You asked about keeping the fuel 'fresh' and so the simple answer is as follows:

To keep fuel 'fresh' you want it to maintain the proper concentration of all of its original components. Simple additives can do that when added in a proper amount.

 

If someone wants to discuss what happens when you add TOO MUCH stabilizer, we can get into that but I will say from a science perspective, the recommended dosages are there for a reason and they are not just pulled out of thin air.

 

--

So I hope that answered your question -- or at least started to answer the question. Please ask if you want more explanation or clarification of something.

[Guest tx2sturgis]

Frank:

 

 

 

 

First, to discuss the ethanol aspect of the problem. Ethanol is used as an additive to the gasoline mixtures to perform as desired in the application for which they are used. For example, in the automotive application, the fuel needs to ignite at a certain temperature and pressure (more specifically it needs to be a vapor, then ignite within the cylinder AT the end of the compression stroke). A problem with ethanol is that it is highly volatile [with respect to phase stability] -- that is to say that there are extensive numbers of dangling bonds that are available for hydrogen bonding to other atoms or molecular structures -- a direct result of which is that it will evaporate quickly when allowed to contact with other H or O rich environments, such as the atmosphere (which includes H2, water vapor, etc etc). It is true that Ethanol easily bonds with water molecules, but it is also true that since it evaporates quickly, if sat for long enough the gasoline that originally contains say 10% ethanol in a closed container, will have a much lower concentration of the ethanol in the liquid form and a higher concentration in the vapor form (in the 'air' layer within the tank). With a lower concentration of the ethanol in the mixture, the gasoline mixture that is THEN in the tank no longer has the same properties that it originally had when it comes to expected combustible properties.

According to the MSDS, Stabil contains 95% propanol and 5% 'additional additives'. Propanol (also known as isopropanol, isrpropyl alcohol, IPA, or rubbing alcohol) has a chemical structure of C3H8O. This structure has O and H available for additional bonding and an electron affinity lower than that of 'air' so the ethanol bonding to the propanol is energetically favorable and, in turn, means that when mixed in with the liquid gasoline more of the propanol (stabil) bonds with the ethanol and keeps the appropriate ethanol concentration IN the liquid/aqueous form of solution instead of letting it evaporate out into the air.

The 5% additional additive (in stabil -- according to the MSDS data sheet) is Pentadecanoic acid (C15H30O2) which is an oxidizing agent that is stable.

 

 

 

You took the words right out of my mouth!

 

 

 

 

 

[LilBeaver]

You took the words right out of my mouth!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry about that... :rasberry:

[frankd]

Rick,

 

Thanks for the explanation. Actually, I'm big on most aspects of science, but chemistry is my weakest. However, my daughter has a masters degree in chemistry and her husband has his doctorate, and they'll be spending a week here during the Christmas holiday. Also, your explanation was well written and I understood it well enough to get an idea of what's going on. However, you mentioned that something happens when you use too much Stabil. What? How much would you have to use to create a problem? When I read their website, I saw that Stabil has a 2 year shelve life. I'd guess that the ispropyl alcohol evaporates and the product isn't as effective?

 

Thanks again!!

 

 

Frank

[darthandy]

While I can't give you a technical answer for why you shouldn't add too much Stabil, I have been given a reason by a very good mechanic that I trust. First, an overdose of Stabil will, in layman's turns, "water down" the gasoline which will hurt power and mileage and may cause rough running. As well, when left to sit for a long period of time, the Stabil and certain components of the gasoline may start to turn to a gel which can cause a whole new set of problems. As was previously stated, there is a mix ratio given for such substances and tere is usually a good reason for it. My friend may be wrong, but it will be the first time since I've known him.

 

Andy