Carb fun for a motorcycle virgin

[k.brown]

I was given a 97 royal star very recently that has less than 500 miles on it, though it hasnt been ran in about ten years. Its been sitting in a garage and shows it. This is the first time I have ever touched a motorcycle, though I have done a good amount of work on cars. My main concern right now is getting the bike running. When I turn the bike on before I hit the start switch I get fuel pouring out of the overflow tubes. From what I have read its pretty obvious that I need to pull the carbs and clean them, though with there being four of them the task is a little daunting with syncing and everything else involved. I know that seafoam wont work if I cant get a flow through the carbs.

 

Here is what I am asking:

 

1. Is there a way to clean the carbs out without removing them?

2. Are the carbs the culprit for these symptoms?

3. How do you sync the carbs once they are all clean and back in?

4. What else should I be replacing? ( plugs, oil, oil filter, where is fuel filter?)

5. Any other tips would be greatly appreciated.

 

Also if anyone knows a great way to get rid of pitting thatd be awesome. Right now Im using fine steel wool and a turtle wax chrome polish and rust remover, but there are still tiny spots that I am not sure if they will come off at all.

 

Thanks

 

 

[MiCarl]

If you haven't cranked the engine yet, remove spark plugs and spray a good dose of penetrating oil into each cylinder. This will help ensure the rings don't stick and break. Let this soak while you do the other maintenance.

1. Is there a way to clean the carbs out without removing them?

Nope

2. Are the carbs the culprit for these symptoms?

Almost certainally

3. How do you sync the carbs once they are all clean and back in?

You really need a service manual and some sort of vacuum/balance gauge. Good news is if you do a thorough and careful job on the carb cleaning the sync will pretty much just a tweak at the end.

4. What else should I be replacing? ( plugs, oil, oil filter, where is fuel filter?)

Oil and filter for sure. Plugs likely ok. Don't know off hand where fuel filter is, again the service manual.

5. Any other tips would be greatly appreciated.

 

You absolutely have to have the service manual. There is an electronic one in the tech section here but IMO it's hard to top having a paper book on your bench that you can just flip through. This is especially true for a novice wrench spinner.

 

You'll have people tell you to rap the float bowls with the handle of a screwdriver to unstick the floats. While that can work it's never going to run properly after an extended sit unless the carburetors are well cleaned.

 

The first time you crank it over you need to leave the plugs out and either ground the wires or disconnect the ignition module. That will clear the penetrating oil without the risk of hydrolocking the engine.

 

You also need to replace the brake fluid and tires. Good idea to lube the cables too. Basically go through the lubrication and maintenance section of the manual and do everything in there.

[MiCarl]

Also, there is stuff that is not in the service manual. If ever everything isn't 100% clear stop and ask a question here. You'll waste way less time waiting for an answer than you will waiting for replacement parts because of an oops.

 

In particular, once you have the carburetors removed you need to stop and ask here about indexing and removing the pilot screws. The manual doesn't touch that and you'll save yourself lots of hours by doing it properly.

[dacheedah]

Manual is here

 

http://labs.trunkful.com/vrmanuals/index.cfm

 

This forum is the best $12.00 you will ever spend

[dacheedah]

When you pull the carb apart, don't touch the jets, pull the bowls, put the whole thing in a very hot solution of water and pine sol and soak. Blow it dry with an air gun, might take a couple soakings but this works well.

[RandyR]

Make sure you get the manual for the early Royal Stars. The 1999-current Ventures and Tour Deluxes are somewhat different, although its the same basic engine block.

 

I'm in Dahlonega, so can run over with a CarbTune when you get to that point.

 

Read thru the technical section ofthis forum.

 

This manual contains the Early Royal Stars maintenance info.

[Guest tx2sturgis]

Its been sitting in a garage and shows it. This is the first time I have ever touched a motorcycle, though I have done a good amount of work on cars.

Dear Motorcycle 'Virgin':

 

If this is the first time you have ever 'touched' a motorcycle, then you may be in over your head on this one. The Royal Star line of bikes cant really be considered as 'learner bikes'.

 

If someone had given you an old Honda Rebel, or Vespa scooter, I might have a different answer.

 

If you spend hours, days, weeks, getting it running in your garage, how are you gonna ride it to test it? Would you magically gain the skills to ride and test a possibly mal-functioning heavy motorcycle? Brakes? Transmission? Clutch? 800 pound bikes are not very forgiving if you have ZERO idea of how to ride one.

 

Sounds dangerous.

 

My advise is to either get help with this project from someone who knows their way around a motorcycle, or pass it along to someone who knows how to ride AND wrench on a bike.

 

Thats not what you want to hear, I'm sure, but if you want to learn how to ride, I think you should go about it another way.

 

I'd rather keep you alive and healthy than see you get hurt.

 

Just my 2 .

 

(no, I'm not 'Dear Abby', I just felt like it for a minute)

 

 

Edited November 7, 2012 by tx2sturgis

[MiCarl]

If this is the first time you have ever 'touched' a motorcycle, then you may be in over your head on this one. The Royal Star line of bikes cant really be considered as 'learner bikes'.

 

I didn't read it that way, but I agree with Brian. If you don't know how to ride this is a poor choice for a learner bike.

[Flyinfool]

:sign yeah that:

 

That was similar to my first thought also.

You have the potential of a great bike there, I don't know that I would not recommend that you get rid of it, but its power and weight do require respect and some skills. I would Highly recommend starting out by taking a motorcycle safety course to learn the basics, and then pick up a cheap smaller beater bike in the 400-600cc range to ride while you are restoring this bike. by the time you get everything in top condition, you should heve enough skills to start riding this new monster.

It is possible to learn right off the bat on a bike this big, but those that do are usually the ones you are reading about in the news paper after a crash.

 

You did make the best first start, you came here and asked for help. You will get all the help you need here, you may not like some o the answers but they will usually be the right answer.

[pmelah]

keep the bike restore it get m/c safety class usually 1 weekend buy cheap beater to learn on and fuel filter is under battery this is a monster of a bike but a fun bike to have and ride be safe on it and have fun

[k.brown]

WOW, this forum is pretty awesome-never thought so many people would post.

 

I completely understand, respect, and thank you guys for the warning about the bike not being a beginner.

 

Another part of the story is that I was also given a 96 Virago 250 to restore. I am looking to sell the royal star once I get it going good-it was given to me for that reason (to help with a down payment towards a house since I just got married).

 

I would never dare to learn on such a heavy bike...I would really like to stick around and enjoy being married

 

As far as the carb goes, this bike has been sitting for literally ten years and maybe this is not looked at positively, but I am bowing out and taking it to a mechanic because there is so much I dont know and what else could be wrong since Ive never worked on a motorcycle.

 

Thank you guys so much for your help and concern. I will definitely learn on the Virago and see where that takes me.

[Guest tx2sturgis]

 

Another part of the story is that I was also given a 96 Virago 250 to restore....

 

I would never dare to learn on such a heavy bike...I would really like to stick around and enjoy being married

 

........I will definitely learn on the Virago and see where that takes me.

 

I'm quite pleased to see this.

 

And I'm SURE we have some members close by, maybe even with some experience servicing the carbs. If I were you, I would post a new thread, something like: "Pizza and beer for carb help in Georgia"

 

Or, word it the way you see fit.

 

Its a good way to get the help you need, and not have to pay a mechanic. Thats going to be expensive, and most of the time, it takes a couple tries to get things right anyway.

 

And yes, the Virago 250 will be the BEST way to learn...but dont forget you need to take the MSF beginner class too!

 

 

 

Good luck!

[StarFan]

WOW, this forum is pretty awesome-never thought so many people would post.

 

I completely understand, respect, and thank you guys for the warning about the bike not being a beginner.

 

Another part of the story is that I was also given a 96 Virago 250 to restore. I am looking to sell the royal star once I get it going good-it was given to me for that reason (to help with a down payment towards a house since I just got married).

 

I would never dare to learn on such a heavy bike...I would really like to stick around and enjoy being married

 

As far as the carb goes, this bike has been sitting for literally ten years and maybe this is not looked at positively, but I am bowing out and taking it to a mechanic because there is so much I dont know and what else could be wrong since Ive never worked on a motorcycle.

 

Thank you guys so much for your help and concern. I will definitely learn on the Virago and see where that takes me.

 

Got my first bike in 2006 - A 1998 Virago 1100. Bought in West Virginia and shipped to Iceland. Had it trucked to my home and took it into the garage and practically tore it apart just to get to know the bike and change the oil, filter, brakefluid and so forth. Will never forget that Sunday morning when I rolled the bike out of the garage to take my first ride. The only experience I had with bikes was riding 50cc bikes when I was 14 to 15 years old.

Well, started the bike up, gave it a couple of revs and then slowly drove out the street. Man was I scared Did not dare to take more than a 15 minutes ride on the back roads and headed straight home to the safety of the garage sweatting like a pig. Parked the bike in the garage, stepped off and thought: Gotta sell this beast - much to powerful for me and I will loose control any given time and crash it for sure and most likely kill myself.

I rode that bike every night after this for a week. The following Sunday I came home from a two hours ride, parked the bike in the garage, stepped off and thought: Why in the world didn´t they make this bike with a bigger motor !

Note that the Virago regardless if it is a 250cc, 550cc, 750 cc or an 1100 cc, these are one of the easiest handling bikes one can get. Sure the 1100 has nice power but it is there to use it when you feel comfortable with it and/or need it. I could lean this bike over to the side so far that my friends said that they were constantly waiting for me to fall over. The funny thing was that I was far from pushing the limit (I found later out where the limit was ). Simply the easiest bike I have ever ridden considdering size and power and it is perfect for beginners. Loved that bike and am determined to get another one when I get permission from the Warden (that might take some time). As time went by (three months) I felt the urge for something bigger and more powerful. Fell for the 1998 Royal Star Tour Classic and was very surprised how easylie it handled taken into considderation the size and weight. It has low center of gravity and I have never found it difficult to handle at low speeds. Expected the bike to be a little clumsy and hard hadling but it is not. But do agree that one has to have some basic skills and experience to handle a bike like this and it is not suitable for absolute beginners. But a great bike for one who has learned the basics, has a little experience and first and foremost respect. One kind of grows with the bike surprisingly fast.

My guess is that once you have gotten the basic skills,and understanding of your 250 cc Virago you will soon be taken to a bigger one. But you are vice to start on a small one and take it step by step. Am sure that in the not so faraway future we will be seeing you riding a bigger bike with comfort and a smile on your face. Hopefully a ROYAL STAR

 

Ride safe,

 

Jonas

[k.brown]

Ok, I couldnt give in so quickly, I am going to try and see what I can do before I take it to a mechanic. My father in law has been engineering and building cars for over twenty years and talked me out of taking the bikes elsewhere and offered a few suggestions.

 

If I pull the carbs and soak them myself-and not touch the adjustments I should be fine right?

 

Also-another theory my father-in-law gave me-that the plugs could be fouled and since they have only about 500 miles on them they should work if i can get the grime off of them...sound reasonable?

 

Also, that if I can get something running through the carbs then they would clean themselves with the right chemicals running through them.

 

There was also a mention of using ether-which I dont know much about.

 

I am thinking about soaking the carbs in hot water/pine sol, any experience with this or any other suggestions where I dont have to take the carbs apart? It'll be a few days until I do it because I am waiting for a service manual.

[Flyinfool]

Plugs are cheap, You might be cheaper of just getting new ones than the time and expense of cleaning the old ones.

 

Just soaking the complete carb assembly will not get the dried fuel out of the tiny internal passages. If your gonna go thru the effort of pulling them off, then it is worth the time to do it right the first time.

 

For the stuck floats.

Open the float bowl drains on the carbs and using a tube adapter spray a very heavy dose of carb & choke cleaner into the float bowl thru the overflow tube. Let it soak for a while and blast it again. This mat dissolve some of the crud that is in there and at least free up the float.

 

If this will get the floats working AND you can actually get the engine running, then I would start by draining all of the old fuel out of the system and start by mixing up a batch of fresh gas with a very heavy dose of SeaFoam. Mix about a half can to a gallon of gas. let the fuel pump run this into the carbs till you are sure that the mix is in there. Start the engine and run it for 20 minutes or so and shut it off and let it soak overnight You will want to hit a lot of different throttle positions to get the mix in to all of the different circuits. You will have to repeat this for several days till you have used up almost all of that gallon of gas. (normally we would tell someone to take the bike out and ride it like you stole it, in your case that is not a safe option) If this is not showing improvement, then the only option left is to strip down the carbs and clean then completely.

 

I am not aware of any other procedures that can be done from outside of the carbs.

[Yamamike]

Dear Motorcycle 'Virgin':

 

If this is the first time you have ever 'touched' a motorcycle, then you may be in over your head on this one. The Royal Star line of bikes cant really be considered as 'learner bikes'.

 

If someone had given you an old Honda Rebel, or Vespa scooter, I might have a different answer.

 

If you spend hours, days, weeks, getting it running in your garage, how are you gonna ride it to test it? Would you magically gain the skills to ride and test a possibly mal-functioning heavy motorcycle? Brakes? Transmission? Clutch? 800 pound bikes are not very forgiving if you have ZERO idea of how to ride one.

 

Sounds dangerous.

 

My advise is to either get help with this project from someone who knows their way around a motorcycle, or pass it along to someone who knows how to ride AND wrench on a bike.

 

Thats not what you want to hear, I'm sure, but if you want to learn how to ride, I think you should go about it another way.

 

I'd rather keep you alive and healthy than see you get hurt.

 

Just my 2 .

 

(no, I'm not 'Dear Abby', I just felt like it for a minute)

 

 

[MiCarl]

You cannot just "soak" the carburetors. They're full of rubber parts that will be ruined by any solvent that can remove the gunk. The constant velocity carbs on the venture are quite a bit different from the carburetors that were used on most (all?) American cars.

 

By all means try new plugs first. Very unlikely to be all you need. Of course if you're flooding from stuck floats the best you can hope for is ruining the new plugs - worst case is you hydrolock it and bend/break a rod.

[tazmocycle]

if someone is welling to help him out thats close to him, i can get a set of my cabs setup and send them to him. i maybe able to come over to helpout, but i'm currantly out of work and watching my $s. i just went to columbus, ms and helped a fellow royal rider on his, as his backedfired and burned up a couple of carbs and filter box. i had to use my good set of carbs to get him going, so i have to put another set back together and test &tune them on my bike. if he's not done any work on bike carbs, it's problly not a good idea for him to do so, as my friend in ms found out( he's a shadetree auto mechanic). so i'll keep an eye on this thread and see what happens. we maybe can help him out on his vigro 250 too if he needs it. i also helped pmelah get the carbs on his 99 back running, used a couple of my carbs because i couldn't get the pms screws loose, i have to drill and extract them out.

Edited November 8, 2012 by tazmocycle

[wes0778]

You cannot just "soak" the carburetors. They're full of rubber parts that will be ruined by any solvent that can remove the gunk. The constant velocity carbs on the venture are quite a bit different from the carburetors that were used on most (all?) American cars.

 

By all means try new plugs first. Very unlikely to be all you need. Of course if you're flooding from stuck floats the best you can hope for is ruining the new plugs - worst case is you hydrolock it and bend/break a rod.

 

Yeah, ask Zipcode what fun this can cause!!!:shock3::shock3:

[k.brown]

Good news-I got bike to start and run late last night-all four cylinders going after cleaning the spark plugs which did not take long at all.

 

Bad news its back to pouring from the overflows again (which sounds like stuck floats from all I have read). I ran gas and seafoam through it last night so hoping that will help break gunk up.

 

I am really trying to avoid taking the carbs off. I have looked at one of the service manuals on this forum and I only have one concern while actually taking the carbs off-the throttle cables how do I take them off? and then how do I put them back on without changing anything? I read somewhere that there needs to be like 4-6mm of play (if I remember correctly) in the cable-is it something I wont have to worry about or just feel out before I take it off and guesstimate when I re-attach the cables?

 

I have everything off the bike to the point where the carbs are right in front of me and I get closer and closer to pulling them off every time I look at them.

[k.brown]

i maybe able to come over to helpout, but i'm currantly out of work and watching my $s.t.

 

Thank you for the thought, but this would be way too much. I know what its like not having a job and watching $$. There is no need for you to drive over here just to get this bike going. You can just help me on here and that will be more than I could ask. I will get it working, it may just take a little time.

[MiCarl]

Let your seafoam treatment sit for a few days. Unplug the fuel pump and run it until it quits. Reconnect the fuel pump and start it back up. You might get lucky and shake the stuck floats loose.

 

If you've got everything else off you've already done the hard part of carburetor removal.

 

The cables just need enough slack so they don't bind. It's not a super critical measurement. They are a bit tricky to get out and back in because there's not a lot of room to work.

[tazmocycle]

as far as getting the cables off the carbs, up at the throttle, there's an adjustment with a locking thumb knob that you screw ccw from the bar end and then the long thumb screw ccw to the end of threads. down ontthe carbs where the cables are hooked up, use a 10 mm wrench and loosen the long nuts all the way back, the one on top will come off the threads and the bottom one will back up and stop at the end of threads. you can pull the out of the bracket and then remove the 2 screws that holds the mounting bracket off the chrome diaphram cover and remove it out of the way. when you lift the carbs out of their boots, slide the carbs to the left side of the bike between the frame and motor(you'll have to take the wiring harness out of the straps and metal bracket holding it in place, and pull slack up by thr frame. when you get the carb almost halfway out you can twist the ends of the cables out of the round throttle control on the carbs. reverse to install.try to remember where all the nuts you loosen on the throttle cables so you can put them back as they were,because thats how you get the right amount of backlash in you throttle cables.

as for getting sea foam into the carbs after you run it out, if you look in the tops of the carbs you'll see 2 small holes with brass jets in them, that goes right into the float bowls, you'll have to drip the sea foam in slowly till they are full. be carefull when you are starting up your bike, as if it backfire thru the carbs trhewre's a danger of set them on fire, that's what happen to my friend's bike, toasting 2 of his carbs and airbox. just take your time and have a nice clean area to lay the parts out if you take them down to clean.