I pulled the trigger on the HF

[cabreco]

Well I went & did it. I picked up the HF mini trailer yesterday. With coupons & sales it came to $143.

 

I spent most of this afternoon putting it together & cursing Chinese manufacturing.

In general the components are good. Some of the Bolts & nuts are not machined properly. I had to use my tap & die set waaayy too much today. Getting it squared was fun as well. Once everything was true I retightened eveything with my impact gun. (I will be stick welding it as well.

 

Although it's sold as an 870lbs capacity trailer, it is rated at 1060 max load.

My intention is to make this a multi use trailer (if needed). I can add a floor & sides to haul stuff, & I do have a 5/8 " steel U rail that can be placed on it to haul my VR in case of an emergency (get home short hop) since the VR is 911LBS. But for the most part it will be a tag along for me to pull behind my Gen1.

 

Tomorrow I have fenders & wiring to do as well as add the 18cu ft rooftop cargo carrier. I aslo have the swivel hitch to mount on the VR.

 

Here's where I stand so far.

 

 

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/album.php?albumid=1121&pictureid=7122

 

 

Now I'M TIRED!!!!

 

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_dbnCgEZBVp0/SaOx9_Rie1I/AAAAAAAAAec/YPQWJ4aKBkw/s320/tired+smiley.bmp.jpg

[Guest tx2sturgis]

Good luck on your project, but you will find that if you leave the trailer as is, it probably wont be suitable for pulling loads behind the bike. And I'm not talking about the cargobox and lights.

 

If you leave the spring pack and axle as-is, it will probably be very bouncy and rough riding with the normal cargo you might haul behind a bike. If you leave the width as is, you will probably need to lengthen the drawbar, due to ill-handling wobble tendencies.

 

If you DO modify the springpacks, then it wont be suitable for hauling a bike on it, which I dont think is a good idea anyway. I would give up on that idea.

 

Of course, you will probaby ignore me and find this out for yourself.

 

 

[cabreco]

Good luck on your project, but you will find that if you leave the trailer as is, it probably wont be suitable for pulling loads behind the bike. And I'm not talking about the cargobox and lights.

After I posted, I gave it some more thought, and I came to the same conclusion.

 

If you leave the spring pack and axle as-is, it will probably be very bouncy and rough riding with the normal cargo you might haul behind a bike. If you leave the width as is, you will probably need to lengthen the drawbar, due to ill-handling wobble tendencies.

I did reposition the drawer bar, it is now 13.5" longer than stock. Overall length is 40" from the front edge of the trailer.

 

If you DO modify the springpacks, then it wont be suitable for hauling a bike on it, which I dont think is a good idea anyway. I would give up on that idea.

I have already reduced the springpacks to remedy the bouncing. By reducing them, the weight capacity will be GREATLY diminished. So this trailer will NEVER haul my MK1

 

Of course, you will probaby ignore me and find this out for yourself.

Brian, I'm 30 years past ignoring sound advice (lol) I've found that you guys have "been there, done that" . That is the main reason I bounce my projects here.

Thanks for the heads up, Looks like I will revert to my original idea od getting a 16' dual axle trailer that will be able to haul both bikes when we move to Tenn.

[Snaggletooth]

I'm looking at some of the same issues with that "New/Used" Tag-Along I just bought. With the stock draw bar it just isn't going to handle the weight of a cooler rack with cooler loaded and a spare tire mounted on the tongue. With the axle set so far back it would be a trick to load the trailer well enough with the gear I want to carry and still retain a decent tongue weight.

 

So longer it will be.

 

Mike

[Guest tx2sturgis]

 

Brian, I'm 30 years past ignoring sound advice (lol) I've found that you guys have "been there, done that" . That is the main reason I bounce my projects here.

Thanks for the heads up, Looks like I will revert to my original idea od getting a 16' dual axle trailer that will be able to haul both bikes when we move to Tenn.

 

 

Well I apologize sir, for assuming things. Its just that so many members here have moved forward with projects even tho myself and others have posted our opinions to the contrary.

 

If your move includes a uhaul truck, they have a nice 5 by 9 motorcycle trailer with ramp they will also rent you, but it cant be pulled with anything smaller than a half-ton pickup, or large SUV.

 

I'm thinking of a larger uhaul than needed (for your household goods), with one bike inside the truck, one in the trailer, might be workable to move two bikes. No need to purchase a trailer when a rental can get the job done.

 

But you will figure it out I’m sure.

 

 

 

 

 

[cabreco]

Well I apologize sir, for assuming things. Its just that so many members here have moved forward with projects even tho myself and others have posted our opinions to the contrary.

 

If your move includes a uhaul truck, they have a nice 5 by 9 motorcycle trailer with ramp they will also rent you, but it cant be pulled with anything smaller than a half-ton pickup, or large SUV.

 

I'm thinking of a larger uhaul than needed (for your household goods), with one bike inside the truck, one in the trailer, might be workable to move two bikes. No need to purchase a trailer when a rental can get the job done.

 

But you will figure it out I’m sure.

 

 

 

 

My move will be a bear this time, much worse that when I move here from Jersey. I used 2 26 foot ryder trucks a full car trailer ( for my 63 Merc) on one and my Dakota pulling an old VW Beetle carrying a 6'x4' gun safe in the bed. Only NOW I have added 2 bikes & a bike trailer to the mix! Should be fun. The big trailer is something I would eventually pick up since we are looking at farms & horse ranches. (future meet & eat/maintenance day Jamboree)

[Guest tx2sturgis]

I used 2 26 foot ryder trucks a full car trailer ( for my 63 Merc) on one and my Dakota pulling an old VW Beetle carrying a 6'x4' gun safe in the bed.

 

 

 

Ok, you win.

 

You have more stuff than me.

 

If I ever moved again, I think I would nuke the crap and start over.

 

Except the Venture.

 

[Steel Horse Cowboy]

I'm not disputing anything anybody has said, but I have the same trailer and the only thing I did was to lengthen the tongue 2 ft. I have a large cooler rack and a large sears cargo carrier that I have attached to it. It pulls great with no issues at all. As a matter of fact, it pulls so well that unless I look in the mirror or hit a bump in the road and hear it rattle, I forget that it is back there.

Well, I was going to attach a picture but I'm not on my computer that has my pictures. If you look in my profile page you can see a picture of the scooter / trailer combo.

 

C.R.

[Guest tx2sturgis]

I'm not disputing anything anybody has said,.

 

 

Always a trouble maker out there....

[Flyinfool]

The single biggest thing to change from stock, is to either make the trailer narrower or lengthen the tongue. The second is to repack and adjust the wheel bearings. These changes are needed for safety. The rest of the suggestions just make it nicer.

[cabreco]

The single biggest thing to change from stock, is to either make the trailer narrower or lengthen the tongue. The second is to repack and adjust the wheel bearings. These changes are needed for safety. The rest of the suggestions just make it nicer.

 

Yeah, I repacked the bearings with high temp, IDK what they were using but it looked like Vaseline!

 

As far as the tongue, I did get 13" extention by moving the center brace up towards the front. The tongue is now 40" long. I haven't tested it yet as my swivel hitch is in transit.

I need the width since the cartop carrier is 38" wide. Worst case I will add another 6" or so.

 

What about wheel balancing? Has anyone found they needed to be done?

[Flyinfool]

I never checked my wheels for balance. I do not notice any shaking or vibration coming from back there.

 

The tongue length that you have to worry about is the distance from the axle to the center of the coupler. This distance should be 1.5 to 2 times the distance from the center of one tire to the center of the other tire. Since longer is more stable I went for the 2 times.

If the tongue is to short the trailer will sway at higher speeds no matter how it is loaded. The little bit of sway is not an issue behind a cage. It is a big issue behind a bike. My bone stock HF trailer started to sway at about 50 MPH, adding the 6 inches from the swivel hitch raised it to about 65 MPH. With the 2 FT total extension (6" swivel hitch and 18" tongue extension) I have hit 80+ (just once) with no sign of sway.

[Guest tx2sturgis]

I did get 13" extention by moving the center brace up towards the front. The tongue is now 40" long. I haven't tested it yet as my swivel hitch is in transit.

I need the width since the cartop carrier is 38" wide. Worst case I will add another 6" or so.

 

What about wheel balancing? Has anyone found they needed to be done?

 

The measurement of 40 inches: From where to where?

 

For stability, when pulled by a motorcycle, the distance from the coupler to the trailer's axle should be about 1.5 times the length of the axle. More is better.

 

Example: axle length is 40 inches. So the distance from the axle to the coupler should be 60 inches. (Or a few inches more.)

 

As far as balancing, if you have the 8 inch wheels, I dont think they can be balanced on normal balancing machines. I could be wrong, since I have never actually tried.

 

I just manually balance them by hand and apply small stick-on balancing weights.

 

 

 

 

 

[cabreco]

The measurement of 40 inches: From where to where?

 

For stability, when pulled by a motorcycle, the distance from the coupler to the trailer's axle should be about 1.5 times the length of the axle. More is better.

 

Example: axle length is 40 inches. So the distance from the axle to the coupler should be 60 inches. (Or a few inches more.)

 

As far as balancing, if you have the 8 inch wheels, I dont think they can be balanced on normal balancing machines. I could be wrong, since I have never actually tried.

 

I just manually balance them by hand and apply small stick-on balancing weights.

 

 

The 40" is from coupler center to front face of frame.

I just remeasured. Right now the distance from the axle center to center coupler 65". That puts me a 1.625. Just barely above the 1.5 margin.

 

Welding in a longer tongue would not be a problem if needed. I will have to load & test run it down the highway & check

[Guest tx2sturgis]

The 40" is from coupler center to front face of frame.

I just remeasured. Right now the distance from the axle center to center coupler 65". That puts me a 1.625. Just barely above the 1.5 margin.

 

Welding in a longer tongue would not be a problem if needed. I will have to load & test run it down the highway & check

 

You should be OK. If you DO have any noticeable wobble, it would probably be due to loading issues. You want more weight in the trailer ahead of the axle than behind it, but you want to keep the tongue weight at about 10-20% of the total trailer weight with cargo.

 

You should also check alignment when your done with all your mods to the trailer, but before any welding. One way to do this: Take the wheels off and with the trailer supported on stands, measure from center of coupler to the tip of each axle spindle. The distance should be the same.

 

Others may have better/faster/other ideas. But assuming the axle is straight and the spindles, hubs and wheels are 'true', this should certainly get you in the ballpark.

 

 

[Flyinfool]

Measure the width from the center of the wheel to the center of the wheel. The 40" width that Brian used was just an example of how to do the formula, the bed of this trailer is 40" wide the distance across the tire centers will be more than that. Then take your measured 65" tongue divided by your new width number.

[mini-muffin]

Not really sure why you all are changing the configuration of the trailer. You don't need to cut or add to it. We've been traveling with a harbor freight since 2005. You need tongue weight you need the heavy stuff over the axle. If you load it right and keep the tire pressure low you'll be fine. We've towed a lot of stuff behind the bikes on that trailer. Just recently towed a Bergman behind the wing from silver springs MA to NC and then back up to Fredericksburg this weekend. We have a bunkhouse that we also tow when camping. The pic of the Bergman backwards was coming back from Silver springs the other is when we took it back up to Fredericksburg.

Margaret

[Guest tx2sturgis]

Just recently towed a Bergman behind the wing from silver springs MA to NC and then back up to Fredericksburg this weekend. We have a bunkhouse that we also tow when camping. The pic of the Bergman backwards was coming back from Silver springs the other is when we took it back up to Fredericksburg.

 

Margaret

 

WOW!

 

Everyone has different experiences. I wouldnt tow that type of load with a motorcycle, but I guess others will. I also adhere to the rule of thumb for bikes pulling trailers: The loaded trailer weight should not exceed HALF the weight of the towing bike. Which limits most trailers to about 300-400 pounds, TOTAL. But I have seen and read of others who pull MUCH heavier loads with a bike.

 

If you ever have an 'oh-sh*t' moment while towing that scooter, and laws of physics take over, you might need all the luck you can get. Yall should probably play the lottery!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 15, 2012 by tx2sturgis

[Flyinfool]

I tried everything from 10 to 70 lbs on the tongue of my HF trailer and it swayed no matter how it was loaded. There are a few people that have said they have no sway issues with the stock HF trailer. They are in the minority, or don't mind the sway.

[mini-muffin]

You have to load the trailer weight properly as well and not fill the tires all the way.

Margaret

[Flyinfool]

I have been loading and towing trailers for over 30 years including professionally, I have a clue how it is done. I would really love to do some measuring of one of the HF trailers that pulls straight with "no" modifications. I have yet to see one personally. I'm betting that there is something different about it. Maybe a bent axle giving a touch of tow-in or camber. either of which will help to stabilize a trailer, neither of which is designed into the HF trailer. Not all HF axles are welded straight.

 

Like I said above

I tried everything from 10 to 70 lbs on the tongue of my HF trailer and it swayed no matter how it was loaded. There are a few people that have said they have no sway issues with the stock HF trailer. They are in the minority, or don't mind the sway.

 

I have seen trailers behind bikes fishtailing back and forth and the driver was either oblivious or it simply was not enough to bother them. Just OK is never good enough for me.

[rickardracing]

WOW!

 

Everyone has different experiences. I wouldnt tow that type of load with a motorcycle, but I guess others will. I also adhere to the rule of thumb for bikes pulling trailers: The loaded trailer weight should not exceed HALF the weight of the towing bike. Which limits most trailers to about 300-400 pounds, TOTAL. But I have seen and read of others who pull MUCH heavier loads with a bike.

 

If you ever have an 'oh-sh*t' moment while towing that scooter, and laws of physics take over, you might need all the luck you can get. Yall should probably play the lottery!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree, I would never have attempted that. That load has a very high center of gravity. Just because a trailer is rated at a cetain amount, does not mean you should try and load it to that amount. Especially with a motorcycle as a tow vehicle. Count your blessings nothing happened. That really is an accident waiting to happen. Holy Moly!

[Brake Pad]

But that bike was a Goldwing, a whole different horse all together. Now I wouldn't pull that with a Venture, No way !!!!

[muffinman]

The point that we were trying to make (mini & I) is all of the bad talk about some of these trailers might be scaring off some of the new to trailer members here.I am in no way suggesting that anyone try to tow anything like I do as far as the center of gravity on the bike I had on my trailer the center of gravity was 12 inches or so above the trailer deck there was no worries on my part about that.the overall weight was less on this than the bunkhouse I tow when we go camping.

If the trailer is stable and in good condition and the load is properly tied down all you have to worry about is the idots in the cages trying to take you out.

you have to be confident in your riding abilities and machinery and keep your attention on the road and everything around you whenever you tow anything with a bike or cage

I also suggest to everyone that is starting out with a trailer that you ride for a while by yourself to get used to towing before you put a passenger on the bike.

[Guest tx2sturgis]

I did NOT intend to 'bad talk' the HF trailers...but I DID want the OP to have some information regarding the setup of his new trailer, and what to do about the issues that might arise.

 

I still do NOT believe that a leaf spring trailer which is set up to handle nearly a half ton will ride comfortably, smoothly, safely, and quietly behind a bike when its only carrying say, 150 pounds of gear. The spring pack will be quite stiff when the trailer is lightly loaded. This isnt really a problem behind an automobile, (which that trailer was designed for) ..but we are talking about a motorcycle pulling that trailer.

 

Conversely, if the springs are modified to be softer, then they wont be able to handle a full sized touring bike if that is what is loaded on the trailer.

 

Most commercial cargo/utility trailers built to be towed by a motorcycle have springs or torsion bars that are rated around 500-600 pounds...there is a reason for that. Heavier springs will be too stiff, and the trailer tires can actually leave the pavement momentarily during turns and bumps.

 

And yes, tire pressure is important too. Some members here will not agree with me on this. But in order to provide the best tire contact patch and treadlife, the 8 inch trailer tires which are RATED at say, 950 pounds at 36 PSI, (each) should be deflated to about 18-24 PSI when the trailer is no more than say, 250 pounds TOTAL. Thats a ROUGH estimate. I have run them as low as 12 PSI..(when the trailer was empty) ....and they track MAH-VUH-LUSLY.

 

I run afoul of others in this belief, but I'd rather get good traction on my trailer tires, and a bit less treadlife than to have a trailer that bounces and bumps around curves because the tires are inflated to 36 or 40 PSI and maybe last a bit longer. Maybe. Anyway, those 8 inch tires are CHEAP.

 

And virtually EVERY commercially built motorcycle trailer built for pulling behind a bike, will adhere to the 1.5 formula for the trailer geometry. Look at the pictures on the internet of them....they ALL have a longer drawbar distance than the HF trailer does, for a given axle length. (axle to coupler distance, not trailer body to coupler)

 

I will let the others with HF trailer experience talk about bearings and fasteners and what all...they can guide others with those issues.

 

I think we can all agree that a $150-$300 trailer designed to pull behind cars and carry a riding mower or 5 bags of concrete might not be QUITE up to the same standards we prefer to see in a safe trailer pulled behind a bike. And for most riders who buy this type of trailer, they probably intend to make some modifications anyway.

 

But I COULD be wrong...its happened before.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 16, 2012 by tx2sturgis