Check float level

[frankd]

I want to check the float level on my 89, and I've read the directions and other posts. If you've done this, how have you connected the tubing to the carb. drain screw so that it doesn't leak? I read where Yammie has a special tool for this, but I saw that it looks like Dingy had something just pushed into the hole that he was able to connect a hose to.

 

What's worked for you?

 

Frank D.

[Snaggletooth]

I just used a short piece of clear airline tubing left over from the fish tank and connected it to the drain line with a male/male coupler from NAPA.

 

Plug them together and hold it up along side the diaphragm housing where the cast line is. (Center line for the slides)

 

Start the bike and open the drain screw up a turn or two until you see gas rising in the clear line. Match that to the line on the carb body. For the life of me I can't remember how far below the line it should be but I'll check and post if if somebody else don't.

 

It's a good way to check before tearing the carbs off. When I first got into this bike I had the carbs off several times making adjustments until they were all in the same place. I installed new floats from the 1st gen V-Max during that process and haven't had a problem since.

 

Mike

[frankd]

My memory made me ask that question....I had it in my mind that when you loosened the drain screw the gas came out that hole. I opened the first screw and gas came out of the vent hose. I was going to come in and tell that I had it wrong, but I didn't quite get here in time....I used to drain my 83 carbs when I stored it for the winter, but lately I've just been Staybiling the gas.

 

Anyway, I leveled the bike. Side to side was relatively easy, but front to back I had to let all the air out of the front suspension and then lower the front tire pressure. Any then I found that when the left set of carbs was level, the right carbs weren't. I'd suspect that there not quite down all the way. I split the difference and measured the fuel levels. I've got 1 cylinder that measures 15mm, one that measures 14.5mm, one 14mm, and the winner is 11mm. (Spec on MkII bikes is 15.5-16.5mm) I've also got 1 cylinder that flows very little gas when you loosen the drain screw. The level in the tubing moves very slow, at first I didn't think I was getting any gas out. I lowered the tubing and gas came out of the vent 1 drop at a time.

 

My 89 used to get 40MPG @ 72 actual MPH (75 on speedometer), but after I put in the new diaphragms, my mileage went down. That makes sense because the needle is being pulled out of the main jet more now, but on my trip the gas mileage went real low when I started pulling those long grades if I left the cruise on. If I disengaged the cruise and kept the throttle from opening so much and shifted down to 4th gear on grades, it was better. On my last 2 tanks in Illinois, I set the cruise on 68 MPH actual, and I only got 35.5 & 36MPG with a very strong tail wind.

 

Do I need to do more than just adjust my floats?

 

Frank

[Snaggletooth]

I've got 1 cylinder that measures 15mm, one that measures 14.5mm, one 14mm, and the winner is 11mm. (Spec on MkII bikes is 15.5-16.5mm) I've also got 1 cylinder that flows very little gas when you loosen the drain screw. The level in the tubing moves very slow, at first I didn't think I was getting any gas out. I lowered the tubing and gas came out of the vent 1 drop at a time.

 

 

Do I need to do more than just adjust my floats?

 

Frank

 

I'd want to tweak that 11mm up a bit but the others are pretty close. Gotta be careful when bendin the brass tang. It don't take much to change the level a lot. All at the same level is great. Close is pretty danged good.

 

You have new diaphragms don't ya?

 

 

I'll leave the question on the needle adjusment to the better informed carb guys.

 

Mike

[frankd]

Well, after a fight, I've got the carbs on the bench. By fight, I mean that first I couldn't get the choke cable clamp screw to turn, even with an impact driver. I was supporting the bracket with a screwdriver so it wouldn't bend, and with the other hand I held the impact driver. My wife (the carpenter's daughter) hit the impact driver. Nothing. We finally finished stripping out the head. I ended up drilling the head off the screw. And then shank of the screw just turned right out. Then I couldn't get the carbs out of the boots. Yes, I had the clamps very loose--actually to the end of the screw, but still I had to pry them up to get them to move. I don't remember fighting with my 1200 the 2 times I had the engine out (2nd gear and then broken frame).

 

Now it looks to me like I have to split the carbs into left and right pairs in order to remove the float cover and adjust them. I can't get the bracket screws to move with a #3 Phillips (by brackets I mean the pieces that hold the carbs to each other). Do I need to use the impact driver OR are they Loctited? Or are mine just more stubborn than average (like the choke cable screw)?

 

 

Frank D.

[twigg]

Well, after a fight, I've got the carbs on the bench. By fight, I mean that first I couldn't get the choke cable clamp screw to turn, even with an impact driver. I was supporting the bracket with a screwdriver so it wouldn't bend, and with the other hand I held the impact driver. My wife (the carpenter's daughter) hit the impact driver. Nothing. We finally finished stripping out the head. I ended up drilling the head off the screw. And then shank of the screw just turned right out. Then I couldn't get the carbs out of the boots. Yes, I had the clamps very loose--actually to the end of the screw, but still I had to pry them up to get them to move. I don't remember fighting with my 1200 the 2 times I had the engine out (2nd gear and then broken frame).

 

Now it looks to me like I have to split the carbs into left and right pairs in order to remove the float cover and adjust them. I can't get the bracket screws to move with a #3 Phillips (by brackets I mean the pieces that hold the carbs to each other). Do I need to use the impact driver OR are they Loctited? Or are mine just more stubborn than average (like the choke cable screw)?

 

 

Frank D.

 

Yep ... You do have to split them, front pair from rears to get at the float chambers. The screws should move pretty easily with a little persuasion. You can replace them with socket head screws from Lowes. A little blue loctite won't hurt.

 

While you are in there you may want to check the pilot jets. They are tiny, block easily and are only about three bucks each. If the carbs are suspect at all I would rebuild the jet blocks which will cost around $100 in parts, but then it's done.

 

If they are generally okay, don't disturb them.

[frankd]

Well, I split the carbs into 2 sections, and pulled the float cover off of the first pair. I fiddled with them, but I didn't get them right. Then I went and re-read what Dingy and Squidley had to say when Squidley was working on an 86, and that info. made setting them relatively easy. Thanks Squidley and Dingy!!!

 

Then I went to the 2nd pair......I got the first 7 screws out of the float covers, but one wouldn't co-operate. I ended up drilling the head off of that one and replacing it. I set those the same way, and all 4 are now reading very close to 16mm below the center line. Tomorrow will be a shorter day, but I'll work on putting the carbs back together. I will work on getting them flatter (all 4 at equal height) than they were. I know they weren't put together correct because I could get the left side level when they were on the bike, and then the right side wouldn't be level. So much fun.

 

Twigg.....My carbs worked, except my gas mileage went down quite a bit after I replaced the diaphragms. 3 of my floats were a little high, but one was 5mm high. I was surprised how clean the float bowls were.

 

Frank

[jdog910]

insted of drilling out the screws on your carbs the best way i found was to just take a dremall tool with a small cutting wheel and make them flat heads instead of phillips then they come right out ( you cant get enough torque with phillips) :lightbulb:and you dont have to worry about messing up the threds on the carb body.

[twigg]

The way I have always removed them is to put your philips screwdriver in the screw, hold it tight in the "undo" direction and give it a sharp "rap" with a mallet. Do this two or three times and it's a very rare carb screw that won't loosen.

 

It's like a mini impact driver ... go easy.

[mbrood]

I bought a #3 phillips bit and use an appropriate socket and ratchet...you have to fit the right tool or it's disaster waiting to happen...

 

My previous owner must have only owned American gauge sockets and allens... where I found a buggered nut or bolt, I knew there was a problem there and needed attention... real poor way to find out but at least it got some new bolts out of the deal.

 

You wouldn't believe what a pain the clutch slave is if you strip those allens in there !

[frankd]

Twigg & Mbrood....Thanks for the ideas. Actually I came up with a slightly different way and already had them put back together. I took my 3/8" air impact, put a #3 phillips bit in the socket that goes on my hammer-impact, and turned the torque way down so it would hammer but not put a lot of twist on the screws. They came out relatively easy.

 

Now about the carbs. I adjusted all 4 floats and now they are in spec. I put it all back together and it was running great. I took it for a ride, and I noticed that my idle speed was getting slower and slower. Then I started smelling gas and when I got back home I noticed that gas was coming out of the left rear carb overflow hose. I drained the 2 left carbs and let the fuel pump fill them back up. No more overflow. I took it for another ride and about 10 minutes after I left home I started smelling gas again and the idle speed started dropping. I took everything back apart and checked the floats and needle valves. I could find nothing wrong. I checked the fuel level again on the left carbs. and both were fine, and the level was stable. When I opened the float chambers, everything looked fine. The spring was hooked around the float tab like it's supposed to be, and the chamber was clean. I blew out the needle's seat, but they looked clean before I did.

 

Any ideas??

 

Frank D.

[Squidley]

Unless you have some contaminants in the fuel system (small particles) perhaps a float was soaked and a bit heavy. Did you put new floats needles in when you broke the carbs apart?

 

Did you try to tap on the bowl and see if the fuel would stop flowing? A few more specifics and I'm sure we can track it down

[frankd]

No new parts were installed. I didn't tap the float chamber, but I did drain the gas out of the carbs and then refilled them and that stopped the overflow.

 

I don't think that one of my floats has taken on any gas because all 4 show the same level (as close as you can get them) dry (when compared to the line on the jet tube) and the gas level is within .5mm of each other. I would think that a heavy float would give me a higher gas level. After the first re-assembly, I adjusted the idle mixture, carb. sync. and idle speed the bike idled for quite a while and it was running great. Then I took it for a ride and THEN the gas level went up and overflowed and the idle speed started coming down.

 

Is it normal to replace the needles? They appear to be fine, but I'm sure the tip has gotten harder over time.

 

Brad, you said something about particles in the gas. I was wondering about particles coming off the gas supply hose. When I took it apart, there wasn't a clamp on the line, but there was a mark where one had been. It hadn't been leaking though. Of course I put a clamp on the hose. I wondered if some of the hose liner had broken off the hose. Nobody else has had that problem though, and I did swab the inside of the hose with a Q-tip.....I did get some black discoloration from the hose, but no particles. I probably should change it just in case.

 

Frank

[twigg]

Float bowls can only overflow if too much gas is getting in.

 

That can only happen if the needle valve isn't closing. The system is pressurized, so even a tiny leak on that seat will cause too much to be pumped through.

 

So you have a dirty valve seat, a faulty needle, a faulty float or the mechanism not assembled correctly.

 

I can't think of another reason off the top of my head

[frankd]

Twigg,

 

I've been having the same thoughts because as you said, there are only a few things that would cause this......

 

The floats appear to be fine and everything was put together properly. When Squidley asked me if I'd changed the needles, I started wondering if the tips might be getting hard on the old ones, although Viton holds up pretty well. That leaves crud on the seat. I couldn't see any, but I blew out the seats this time. Where did the crud come from??? The carbs were clean when I pulled them apart, so it looks like it's something I disturbed. This could come from 2 sources.....the first is the hose falling apart, and when I replaced the missing clamp or moved the hose around it could happen. Or did something get in the hose while it was open and the carbs were out. It's also a possibility. I'm going to stop at the auto parts store and see if I can buy some 1/4" gas hose, hopefully with some kind of high temperature protection like the original hose has. If not, I will flush out the hose by cycling the kill switch before putting it back on the carbs.

[ChrisFrench]

Saisissez du texte, l'adresse d'un site Web ou importez un document à traduire.

Annuler

 

 

 

Exemple d'utilisation de "" :

 

traduction automatique de Google

 

 

 

 

Alpha

 

 

 

Hello,

 

I had the same problem, it was the black seal on the brass body

 

Chris

[frankd]

At least 1 of my needles has been leaking for as long as I've owned the bike and while I've got everything apart, I'm going to replace all 4. Whenever the bike was shut off for more than 1/2 hour, when you turned the ignition ON, you'd hear the fuel pump cycle a couple of times. Overnight it would cycle 5-6 times at least. I saw a post somewhere that said that the fuel pumps on Mk II bikes might have a cracked inlet valve that would cause this and it sounded about right. Well, it wasn't. I replaced the fuel hose (between the carbs and the fuel pump) and got the idea that I could block off the end of the new hose, cycle the fuel pump, and see if it leaks. It's been sitting about 3 hours now, and still hasn't needed to cycle. That means I've had 1 or more needles seeping or leaking for the last 4 years.

 

Needles are $13.08/ea. at my dealer. JCWarshawsky has them for $36 for a set of 5, but they're not available at the JCW store, which is only about 35 miles from me, so I'd have to get them shipped. Anyplace else I should check for prices??

 

Frank D.

[bkuhr]

Needles are $13.08/ea. at my dealer. JCWarshawsky has them for $36 for a set of 5, but they're not available at the JCW store, which is only about 35 miles from me, so I'd have to get them shipped. Anyplace else I should check for prices??

 

Frank D.

 

Might try http://www.boats.net $13.47ea

http://www.boats.net/parts/detail/yamaha/Y-22U-14190-15-00.html

[tazmocycle]

i don't see any way any trash can get into the fuel bowl thru the gas line from the fuel pump as the fine screen on the bottom of the needle seat, which is below the blue band in the pic chris french posted at the bottom of his reply, should catch it all. most, i think comes when the gas breaks down and causes corrusion in the bowl. when my royal star set up for about 5 months with stabel in it, when i had my knee and leg surgery, there was a clear-like jelly and really fine sand-like crud in them. i had to take them all the way down and clean them good.

[ChrisFrench]

Voir le fichier:

 

Chris

[frankd]

Chris,

 

Thanks for the info. I ordered 4 of them today from my local dealer.

 

Tazmocycle,

 

Now I'm thinking that the seats needed to be replaced. I've owned this bike for 4 years, and since I bought it you always heard the fuel pump cycle if it's been sitting a half hour or more. You're probably right in assuming that any particles from the hose would get caught in the screen above the seat.

 

Bkuhr,

 

Thanks for the info. I ordered them from my local dealer for a little less. The big saving will be that I can just pick them up there and no additional shipping will be added. It'll also be a bit quicker. My local dealer gives a 20% discount if you order the parts online. If the parts are in stock in the warehouse south of Milwaukee, I could get them tomorrow afternoon. If they come from California, it'll be Tuesday or Wednesday next week.

 

Frank D.

[tazmocycle]

frankd: you are right about if any gas is getting by the black rubber seal around the seat is the only way trash from the gas line can get into the bowls, most all of the ones i pull down are flatten out and they don'tseal off good. you can find metric o-rings at most auto part stores or lowes or home depots. i have a set of all differant sizes and thickness in a kit i've had for years that came from an industrial supply house, when i use to rebuilt a lot of differant food machines that wre from germany and netherlands. i'm sure these are metrics. if your's is leaking pressure down it's either going back thru the fuel pump or those black rubber orings around the seat housing or thru the float seats. hope you get them straighten out, don.

[frankd]

I installed new float needles, and Murphy's law reached out and grabbed me again. The float cover O rings had been re-sealing just fine, but after putting the new needles in, one cover leaked pretty bad. I ordered and received a new O ring for it, and I decided to check the other carbs more carefully.....2 of the others were seeping. I ordered and installed 3 more O rings. I put the carb rack back together, installed the carbs on the bike, synced the carbs, and re-adjusted the idle mixture(s). Then I decided that seeing that I had the left fairing half off already and I planned on rebuilding the forks this winter, it made sense to do it before I put all the Tupperware back on. After all, I had the parts in the drawer....slightly wrong. I only had 1 lower bushing (Yammie calls this a piston?) I ordered another lower bushing and then as many probably saw, Yammie's parts computer was down for almost 2 days. It came in Tuesday and I finished it yesterday (Wednesday). I took it for a ride yesterday and everything seemed fine----No more flooding and it ran great. This morning (Thanksgiving) I took it for a longer ride. The gas mileage seems to be a little better. I rode it hard and it still gave a little over 40MPG and the temperature was about 50 degrees, and today it is extremely windy. If the weather report is correct, it'll be a while before I can take a longer ride. The throttle feels a lot crisper than before I started, so the gas mileage should be fine.

 

Thanks everybody for your help!

 

Happy Thanksgiving

 

Frank D.

[Squidley]

Cool Beans!

 

The 40 mpg is right on par with what I have gotten on all of my Ventures, between 38 and 42 mpg depending upon how I drive. Glad you got after it and made it happen....now just a couple more months and you can start riding again