Insurance question. "Cash Value"

[Snaggletooth]

I'm going over to meet with my insurance agent on Wednesday to talk about my bike coverage and adding the new trailer to my policy. I have no issue with my current policy, as I have never made any kind of claim on my bikes or cars, but want to be clear on the terms he keeps bringing up in our e-mail exchanges.

 

The term is "cash value" which I understend, if I'm correct is what it would cost to replace the vehicle or trailer at the time of loss based on KBB or other info they use.

 

I know some of the headaches many have gone through concerning the value, based on what the bike/trailer was worth to them, compared to the insurers opinion based on their data.

 

I try to keep a current file of bikes similiar to mine that were sold to document the prices on the current market in case I ever suffer a loss. Along with that prices of the parts and farkels I have added over the years, which adds up.

 

I can't whine about the cost of my bike policy as it's only $269.00 a year for full coverage. I'm considering dropping my deductable to $100.00 and that would only raise me to $290.00 per year for full bike coverage, Deductable of $100.00 per vehicle as the deductable would apply to both the bike and trailer seperatley. At the current deducable the trailer (paid $250.00) would about be a wash.

 

Any advice on how to look at this?

 

Mike

[Hummingbird]

I just looked up the value of a 1984 Venture Royal using KBB

 

in excellent condition it's worth $1790.00 - have you looked at liability ONLY insurance ?

[Dragonslayer]

I just looked up the value of a 1984 Venture Royal using KBB

 

in excellent condition it's worth $1790.00 - have you looked at liability ONLY insurance ?

Be very careful on this point. KBB value is different than antique, collectible, historically significant, restored value. On my last claim I was awarded $6,800 for my 1987 XVZ1300 VR

I kept the bike no Salvage title and I'm still riding it. The residual damage that I have not fixed already by myself is a scratched and cracked right saddle bag. Which proves it is a doable argument with an insurance company if handled the right way and you do your homework.

[bongobobny]

I just looked up the value of a 1984 Venture Royal using KBB

 

in excellent condition it's worth $1790.00 - have you looked at liability ONLY insurance ?

yes, my '84 costs me just about that many dollars per year, actually $86!

[Hummingbird]

Be very careful on this point. KBB value is different than antique, collectible, historically significant, restored value. On my last claim I was awarded $6,800 for my 1987 XVZ1300 VR

I kept the bike no Salvage title and I'm still riding it. The residual damage that I have not fixed already by myself is a scratched and cracked right saddle bag. Which proves it is a doable argument with an insurance company if handled the right way and you do your homework.

 

there's a GREAT big differance between STATED value and retail value. If something is insured for a stated value then the premium would reflect that value. If a person insures for retail value as everybody does with the exception of classic, historical etc. then that is what generally happens.

As well, if a person thinks that their bike is worth a lot more than retail value it should be insured as such.

[Hummingbird]

Be very careful on this point. KBB value is different than antique, collectible, historically significant, restored value. On my last claim I was awarded $6,800 for my 1987 XVZ1300 VR

I kept the bike no Salvage title and I'm still riding it. The residual damage that I have not fixed already by myself is a scratched and cracked right saddle bag. Which proves it is a doable argument with an insurance company if handled the right way and you do your homework.

 

everybody has their own conscience level

[Dragonslayer]

everybody has their own conscience level

That's true but, if your freshly restored, painted motorcycle that you had hundreds if not thousands of hours, blood, sweat and tears in gets hit while parked by someone who is driving on the wrong side of the road. What would you do?

[GolfVenture]

I learned this summer that Cash Value is ACV or Actual Cash Value per my ins co terminology. ACV is subject to ones supportive argument, or unless you want to specifically state what you want for your m/c if in a totaled situation. But then you will probably pay more for your policy.

My 91 VR had 9600 miles and was about as close to show room condition as a used 91 VR could be and had about $2500 in extra accessories.

First my ins co wanted to give me $3500 based on KKB ($2940) plus 2 m/c comps.

of $3000.00 on a 90 VR an a 92 VR. Then gave me an additional $500.00 for low mileage.

So I came back with NADA Excellent Value of $5085, and several m/c of $4500.00 on VRs that were about 5 years older than my 91 VR . Then added the $500.00 for low mileage the ins co was giving me.

That supports mt NADA Excellent of $5085.

I also argued that NADA has 5 conditional value for Excellent, Very Good, Good, Fair & Poor

While KKB only had 1 Value.

Then I saw that the KKB Value was about $470.00 less from NADAs Very Good Value of $3410.

I made a conclusion that KKB single value is probably equivalent to NADAs Very Good value for the NADAs Good value was $1600.

So I created an Algebraic expression to calculate KKBs Excellent Value, since I knew the following.

NADAs Excellect, NADA Very Good, KKBs Very Good. But I did not know KKBs Excellect Value.

So here I how I calculated KKBs Excellent Value.

NADAs Excellect KKBs Excellect

_______________ = _____________ Now plug in the values

NADAs VeryGood KKBs VeryGood

$5085 KKBs Excellent

_____ = _____________

$3410 $2940

You cross multiply ($5085) x ($2940) = ($3410) x KKBs Excellent

Then you divide each side by ($3410) to solve for KKBs Excellect

KKBs Excellent would = $4385

Oh I also called on both the ins co m/c comps and discovered

The 90 was in excellent condition except it had damages on the non pictured side.

The 92 CASS was not working.

So I said that if each of these owners were claiming that their VR were in excellent value but did not disclose these damages on their add, then I could conclude that there could be other hidden damage that art not being disclosed. So I totally disallowed these comps.

Each step I took I kept building my case.

The ins co then offered $4012 which was calculated by adding

NADAs Excellent ($5085) + KKB Single Value ($2940) divide by 2 = $4012

Then they added $500 for low mileage = $4512

Oh along the way I did mentioned that the Book values are naked VRs with the Royale package. So new I need compensation for my $2500 of accessories. And these accessories of $2500 was ebay purchases in the last two years. Well I did not get the $2500 added to the $4512 for a total of $6912, but the ins co did allow $750 for accessories. Making it $5212.00.

During this negotiation process I did come down to about $5450. I was going to see if the ins co would split the difference but I decided not to push to any farther so I accepted the $5212 + licenses fee + sales tax = about $5850.00. Looking back I should have tried splitting the difference.

So the ACV is all what you and the ins co come to an agreement to.

PS: Also my policy specifically stated that the ACV would be a max of $3500.00. The voice recording of my talk with the sales agent did not record anything about a max ACV of $3500.00 but rather reference to book value.

The other thing is that the claim started on 19 June and we settled in late September. I never onced called the ins co. I forced them to call me or email 1st all the time. And I was willing to go the full 3 years. Ins co has to review all their claims every few days and the longer a claim is open the worst it looks on the claims agent. The claims agent also has some authority before going to its supervisor.

[Hummingbird]

That's true but, if your freshly restored, painted motorcycle that you had hundreds if not thousands of hours, blood, sweat and tears in gets hit while parked by someone who is driving on the wrong side of the road. What would you do?

 

You are evidently a fine negotiater - It appears that your ins. co. paid you damages and not a total value for the bike. When a vehicle is totaled it is then a Salvage vehicle, bike or car. If you have your bike with a clear title, then it wasn't totaled.

Good on you !!

[Venturous Randy]

You are evidently a fine negotiator - It appears that your ins. co. paid you damages and not a total value for the bike. When a vehicle is totaled it is then a Salvage vehicle, bike or car. If you have your bike with a clear title, then it wasn't totaled.

Good on you !!

 

When my 83 was knocked over by a truck, their insurance totaled my bike and sold it back to me for $200, with the original settlement being $3,660. I was told that technically the bike was totaled, but the lady doing the dealing with me told me that she doubted the insurance company would pursue going through the process of getting a salvage title, as it would cost them even more money.

I never did receive a salvage title in the mail and when ever I have re-tagged the bike, there has never been a title concern. So, what it comes down to is in this situation, you may end up with a salvage title, or you may not, it just depends on whether the insurance wants to spend the money to get it retitled.

RandyA

[Dragonslayer]

You are evidently a fine negotiater - It appears that your ins. co. paid you damages and not a total value for the bike. When a vehicle is totaled it is then a Salvage vehicle, bike or car. If you have your bike with a clear title, then it wasn't totaled.

Good on you !!

Yea that and I think the fact that the insured was the attorney for the insurer I don't think she wanted to explain to her client why she was on the wrong side of the road hitting a parked vehicle and was anxious to settle quickly. May have been a factor she did also include $500 loss of use.

[Dragonslayer]

When my 83 was knocked over by a truck, their insurance totaled my bike and sold it back to me for $200, with the original settlement being $3,660. I was told that technically the bike was totaled, but the lady doing the dealing with me told me that she doubted the insurance company would pursue going through the process of getting a salvage title, as it would cost them even more money.

I never did receive a salvage title in the mail and when ever I have re-tagged the bike, there has never been a title concern. So, what it comes down to is in this situation, you may end up with a salvage title, or you may not, it just depends on whether the insurance wants to spend the money to get it retitled.

RandyA

Through the years since I've owned my bike 5 different insurance companies have totaled and paid off my bike on 5 different occassions due to the negligence of their insured. On every single occassion they never asked for the title and I kept the bike. Each time it was cosmetic damage, scratched and cracked plastic. Since Yamaha retail prices for new OEM Plastic components are so high, it doesn't take much cosmetic damage to total a 1st gen.Each time I fixed the damage myself and put the bike back on the road.

[Venturous Randy]

Through the years since I've owned my bike 5 different insurance companies have totaled and paid off my bike on 5 different occassions due to the negligence of their insured. On every single occassion they never asked for the title and I kept the bike. Each time it was cosmetic damage, scratched and cracked plastic. Since Yamaha retail prices for new OEM Plastic components are so high, it doesn't take much cosmetic damage to total a 1st gen.Each time I fixed the damage myself and put the bike back on the road.

 

I feel my bike has pretty much paid for itself since I purchased it for $2,100 dollars, almost 17 years ago and I have put about 135,000 miles on it. I have actually put very little money in it over the years and still ride it all the time.

It sounds like you have done better than break even.

RandyA

[Dragonslayer]

I feel my bike has pretty much paid for itself since I purchased it for $2,100 dollars, almost 17 years ago and I have put about 135,000 miles on it. I have actually put very little money in it over the years and still ride it all the time.

It sounds like you have done better than break even.

RandyA

If you don't count the value of all the labor hours I have in it.

[OB-1]

Through the years since I've owned my bike 5 different insurance companies have totaled and paid off my bike on 5 different occassions due to the negligence of their insured. On every single occassion they never asked for the title and I kept the bike. Each time it was cosmetic damage, scratched and cracked plastic. Since Yamaha retail prices for new OEM Plastic components are so high, it doesn't take much cosmetic damage to total a 1st gen.Each time I fixed the damage myself and put the bike back on the road.

 

So, in other words, you cleverly use the negligence of others to pay for your hobby of rebuilding 1st Gens?:rotf:

 

Just kidding, no offense intended.

[Snaggletooth]

Well I'm done with my insurance guy. Pretty painless really. Been with him a long time.

 

All I ended up doing was adding the new Tag-Along trailer to the bike policy and dropping the deductible to $100.00 per vechicle. It only added about $35.00 a year to my cost for the bike policy so I'm still under $300.00 for full coverage on both.

 

With my old deductible the trailer would have been a wash anyway. This way it's a lil bit towards getting another trailer. He did ask me about rebulding the trailer if damaged and it took me a while to quit laughing. I guess he's not familer with Harbor Freight.

 

The trailer is fully covered under the bike policy when I am pulling it or it's attached but the deductible would be $100.00 for each one if in an accident and damaged together.

 

If the trailer would be damaged or stolen when not attached to the bike, rather stored here or left unattended while traveling it would still be covered and a $100.00 deductible. Fair enough.

 

I did talk to him a bit on Golf&Venture method of dealing with his loss from his accident. He remarked that it was a very productive way to get a fair settlement on his bike. He thought it would help any rider of an older bike with a considerable investment made into it. No one will ever recover all the money put into a bike, but the documentation presented helped him out a lot. Kudos to Golf&Venture.

 

So I'm happy with my coverage. I hope it stays that way if I ever need to use it.

 

Mike