Automotive Economy Strangeness

[V7Goose]

Motorcycles make more sense that autos and trucks.

 

My wife's main vehicle has always been a big Jaguar XJ8 (I'll admit that I love it too!). But now that we are moving to a small mountain town in New Mexico, I just do not trust ever finding a qualified Jaguar mechanic there. I do just about all my own work on the Jag, just like the bikes, but there are some complicated things on that vehicle that I have no experience with, so I would really want a shop I could trust. We agreed to sell the Jag here in the Fort Worth area and buy a sensible Japanese compact all-wheel-drive for the mountains. So far, so good, but that is where it started getting weird for me.

 

The Jaguar XJ8 is a big 4-door luxury sedan with a 300HP V8 engine - it has enough power that it is sometimes hard to drive it in a sedate way! And this big car gets 32 MPG on the highway! I have absolutely no problems making the entire 600 mile trip from here to Ruidoso on one 19 gallon tank, even when driving a steady 80 miles an hour most of the way.

 

Now the Honda CR-V I just bought today is only rated for highway mileage of 26 MPG, and most of us have learned to never expect to even reach the posted EPA numbers. So what the heck is wrong with the world when a big luxury car with a great V8 engine gets so much better fuel economy than a standard Japanese vehicle with a small to mid size 4 cylinder? That little CR-V seems like a great little vehicle, but I'm betting I'll curse the mediocre fuel economy for years to come.

Goose

 

Anybody wanna buy a big beautiful Jag with GREAT fuel mileage?

[MiCarl]

You pay a pretty hefty penalty in fuel for the AWD.

[uncledj]

I've often wondered about that myself.

Back in the early 80s my friends and I went down to Ft. Lauderdale in my 75 Cutlass with a Rocket 350 in it, loaded down with stuff, and towing a trailer with 4 street bikes on it and still got 23 mpg.

That Cutlass ran like a raped ape too. I think it was a 250 hp engine.

My current Dodge pickup with a 360 in it (1/2 ton, 4x4) gets 12mpg on the highway on a good day.

Something just doesn't seem right.

Maybe it's all a conspiracy to build them to use more gas.

[V7Goose]

You pay a pretty hefty penalty in fuel for the AWD.

Except that the CR-V stays strictly front wheel drive until it senses wheel slip, so rarely any AWD penalty.

[playboy]

You pay a pretty hefty penalty in fuel for the AWD.

 

 

 

My daughters 2wd 04 CRV gets 28 mpg hwy. Great little vehicle for short trips for a long legged fella. But I would have never dreamed a Jag got that kinda mileage.

[Guest tx2sturgis]

I'm guessing that between the towns of Roswell, Alamogordo, Las Cruces, and of course, Albuquerque, there should be a Jaguar shop somewhere!

 

As far as fuel efficiency, It all comes down to aerodynamics. The Jag is slippery!

 

The CRV....not so much. On the other hand, the money you save on repairs will surely pay for the little bit of extra gas it might consume.

 

Also, its been an occasional issue with some European cars that the odometers were 'optimistic'....similar to our bikes. Maybe it got 32 mpg...then again...maybe it didnt.

 

So when is the big move? Hopefully before the snow flies.

 

 

 

 

 

[Marcarl]

I was driving behind one of those BIG Jags today,,,, it looked like an old guy's car, and sure enough, it was an old guy driving it,,,,,, but it had me thinking: wonder when I'll be old enough to drive one of them there awesome machines.

[chabicheka]

I think you passed your chance a few years back, Carl.....at your age, you shouldn't be driving ANY car!

[chabicheka]

Can i still come for tomorrows dinner?

[Redneck]

The biggest killer of fuel efficiency in todays autos is emission requirements.

[CaptainJoe]

Motorcycles make more sense that autos and trucks.

 

My wife's main vehicle has always been a big Jaguar XJ8 (I'll admit that I love it too!). But now that we are moving to a small mountain town in New Mexico, I just do not trust ever finding a qualified Jaguar mechanic there. I do just about all my own work on the Jag, just like the bikes, but there are some complicated things on that vehicle that I have no experience with, so I would really want a shop I could trust. We agreed to sell the Jag here in the Fort Worth area and buy a sensible Japanese compact all-wheel-drive for the mountains. So far, so good, but that is where it started getting weird for me.

 

The Jaguar XJ8 is a big 4-door luxury sedan with a 300HP V8 engine - it has enough power that it is sometimes hard to drive it in a sedate way! And this big car gets 32 MPG on the highway! I have absolutely no problems making the entire 600 mile trip from here to Ruidoso on one 19 gallon tank, even when driving a steady 80 miles an hour most of the way.

 

Now the Honda CR-V I just bought today is only rated for highway mileage of 26 MPG, and most of us have learned to never expect to even reach the posted EPA numbers. So what the heck is wrong with the world when a big luxury car with a great V8 engine gets so much better fuel economy than a standard Japanese vehicle with a small to mid size 4 cylinder? That little CR-V seems like a great little vehicle, but I'm betting I'll curse the mediocre fuel economy for years to come.

Goose

 

Anybody wanna buy a big beautiful Jag with GREAT fuel mileage?

 

Lower RPM's, more torque, and, I certainly agree less emmission controls play a big part.

 

Case in point: I bought a 6 vylinder 2002 Pontiac Firebird to commute 25,000 mi. annually. The salesman showed me that the V8 2002 Pontiac Firebird Trans AM got better gas milage "due to lower RPM's and higher Torque" ... I told him it still doesn't justify the $+10,000 price difference.

 

Although... it would have looked Cooler and had a higher resale...

Edited October 9, 2012 by CaptainJoe

[AKRefugee]

The newer "economy" cars are set up for best economy in the 45 to 55 mph range, kind of the average for a daily commute vehicle. Vehicles like your Jag and the 1995 Mercedes S420 I have are set up for cruising and get better mileage on long higher speed runs. Bet your Jag is not getting anywhere like the 30 + mpg you are getting out on the open highway when you use it to run around town.

 

 

Ride Happy, Ride Safe

[djh3]

Certainly could be gearing. I had a Ford Escort when they came out. Wasnt long after they mandated the 55 mph federal speedlimit (remember that). But the little car was built just before I think. I got better fuel mpg @ like 65 than 50-55. And on the cheapest gas I could find, better gas worse milage. Never did figure it out. Thats part of why now so many cars have 6 or more speeds with overdrive. Lower gearing for around town and OD for highways.

[GeorgeS]

08 TrailBlazer, with In line 6 cylinder.

 

Freeway cruzeing, it gets 20.5 to 21.5 mpg, but in " just around town driveing "

it never tops 16 to 18 mpg.

But its a big square " box " Something to be said here for the aerodynamic,

shape of the Jag !!

My 03 Blazer is about the same, 15 around town, and about 19 to 20 freeway cruzing.

( another square box ) ( V 6 engine )

 

Oh another comment concerning british cars. My brother in law builds high performance engines, and also re-builds whatever type of engine that gets delivered to his engine overhaul shop down in LA. When I'm there I like to watch the process of all the different re-builds, in progress,

Was there couple months ago, and he had " Rolls Royce about 1998 V8 " engine torn down to be Re-built. So I'm looking at all the parts, first time I had ever seen a RR engine torn down.

I ask Jim, " hey Jim, whats your opinion of RR engines, as to Quality? " Jim says, --- " They are Junk !! " --- Now I will have to admit, I was surprised, but he seemed satisfied with his opinion. ( he walked away, as if there was absolutly no need for any further comment )

 

Hmmmm I'm standing there, thinking, I just heard a master engine re-builder, say that this RR engine is a piece of junk ?????

 

Well, guess its time to go have a cup of coffee. ????

Edited October 9, 2012 by GeorgeS

[lonewolf96]

Another thing to think about is almost all of the newer light duty PU's and SUV's use CV axles that are always turning as the wheels turn. Even if the 4 wheel drive is not engaged you're still turning the axles and gears in the differentials unless you have lockable/unlockable hubs at the wheels like alot of the 3/4 and 1 ton PU's. I can definately tell when I forget to unlock my hubs after being off road by my MPG's.

[Pegasus1300]

If you really like the Jag that much you might actually do a search in the area for competent mechanics to work on your car.It sounds like you only need one once in awhile anyway, or is the Jag at a point where it may become a maintenence nightmare? I do know that no matter how good a mileage they get they all need to stop at a pump sooner or later and you need to have enjoyed the ride or you wont enjoy the fillup no matter how small.

[BigLenny]

I don't see anyone here mentioning power to weight ratio. Or maybe I missed it. A little 4 banger pulling a chunk of weight sometimes doesn't get the mileage a big V-8 will get because the V-8 doesn't have to work as hard to pull the weight.

 

I wonder what the weight difference between the Jag and the CRV is. You might be surprised to find that it's not that much different.

 

And yes, aerodynamics play a big difference too.

[Bvinson]

Goose,

 

I own a Honda Ridgline that is the same 4WD system as the CRV. Mine has the V6 and real world mileage is 16-18 around town and 20-21 on the road. It work very well when we get the occasional snow & ice here in the metroplex. Rides more like a car than a truck and even has a trunk that you will use more than you think.

[timgray]

All Wheel drive plus lower "offroad" gearing is what you paid for. that CRV is getting phenomenal gas mileage for a off road 4X4. If you drive mostly highway, you should have bought a civic or prelude. I can out drive 4X4 SUV's in my civic on heavy snow roads. Mostly because I ride on snow tires in the winter. And I get far more snow here in michigan than they do in the rockies... Typical 48" of snowfall in January. Not uncommon to wake up to 1-2 feet of fresh on the ground. I will drive 40 miles into work and beat all the other guys that have 4WD trucks.

[oldfaithful]

I must admit that this is a topic that I've studied, discussed, researched and argued for years...yet still I'm mystified. I'm beginning to wonder if indeed there might be a conspiracy to push us out of our automobiles by driving up the cost per mile! Nontheless, all of the reasons given by previous contributors are certainly valid and combined might bring theory in line with experience.

 

Years ago I owned an 86 Escort GT, and it regularly got 45 mpg. I liked it so much that after being totaled by a malicious semi driver, I bought another one just like it. That one only got 42 mpg, but I still happily drove it into the ground. That vehicle was designed & built over 26 years ago, yet you are hard pressed to buy a car today that will beat its fuel economy! It would accelerate with traffic (but just barely), had "adequate" seating for my 6'2" frame (Tho much improved by unbolting the driver's seat, welding in more support material, drilling new holes, and moving the seat back several inches!) and was much cheaper to purchase than any flex fuel, hybrid, electric or combination thereof.

 

Interestingly enough, my 84 XVZ12 has only shown a best of 42 mpg...but even when I try, I can't stay out of the throttle!

[Guest tx2sturgis]

And I get far more snow here in michigan than they do in the rockies... Typical 48" of snowfall in January. Not uncommon to wake up to 1-2 feet of fresh on the ground. I will drive 40 miles into work and beat all the other guys that have 4WD trucks.

 

 

Its not unusual to get 10 FEET of the whitestuff in the southern Rockies during a hard snowfall..although 2 or 3 feet is more normal...but even if the snowfall amounts were the same or less, there are huge differences in geography and topography.

 

In these higher elevations, the roads are not flat, straight, and level. You have LOTS of grades to negotiate, maybe even a climb of 500 feet in a couple of miles, just to get to the store, work, or a friends house. There are gullies, dips, washouts, and huge drifts that accumulate due to the tall pine trees and the lay of the land. I have had to chain up in that area more than once, and I'm here to tell you, a low front wheel drive car can get buried, stuck, or run off the road no matter who is driving it. Same thing with a 4x4 of course, but a high ground-clearance, 4wheel drive, with aggressive tread will sometimes STILL be a handful up there.

 

Many residents use side-by-side ATVs, with a cab kit, to get around in the winter. Some are more hardy and use snowmobiles and open ATVs...one of my friends there works for a communications company, and to service the equipment in the winter, they have to haul a Snowcat to the foot of the mountain, and ride that sucker to the top of the mountain where the tower and equipment building is located.

 

Of course the main roads are bladed, and sanded or cindered, but the various little skinny residential roads that wind up and down the mountains, just outside the city limits, are not. They are mostly too steep for that.

 

Ruidoso lays claim to the southermost ski area in the US...and for good reason...although to be fair, the winters can be severe during a week of bad weather, but its not a blizzard for weeks on end. Normally the harsh weather will subside after a few days, and then you might have a week or two of temps climbing into the 50's or even 60's.

 

Its a beautiful area, with 2 major bike rallies every year, and a great place to live in the summer. In fact, in the summer, on holiday weekends, the vehicles displaying Texas license plates outnumber the NM plates 2 to 1.

 

I have several friends that live in the area, and some who live there only in the summers. I'm not sure any of them are native of the area, or even if they know any homegrown residents there.

 

Goose will feel right at home, as there are many Texans there...learning to love the tall pines and clean crisp air.

 

But not many of them bring along a Honda Civic, or a Jaguar for that matter.

 

 

Edited October 9, 2012 by tx2sturgis

[CaptainJoe]

Keep the Jag...

 

Buy this instead:

http://www.snowmobile.com/manufacturers/yamaha/2013-yamaha-nytro-mtx-162-turbo-review-video-1589.html