twigg Posted October 8, 2012 Share #1 Posted October 8, 2012 (edited) From the invention of the motorcycle there have been two areas of riding that can be considered to be the extremes of the pastime. Those who want to ride them faster, and those who want to ride them farther. The way motorcycles are used in day to day activities varies from place to place. In the UK, and in much of Europe, the motorcycle was often the primary form of transport for working men and working class families. When I was a child we didn't have a car, our houses did not have garages. My Dad had an elderly BSA 650 with a Canterbury Double-adult sidecar. He went to work on it, took Mum to the stores, and we would use it for vacations traveling from the north of England to the South to visit with family. That was a journey of nearly two hundred and fifty miles. Dad on the bike, Mum and kids in the sidecar and it could take upwards of ten hours including driving right through central London. I guess my introduction to long journeys on motorcycles started at an early age. My first recollection of riding my own bike a long way was at age 17. I had a BSA Bantam D175. Even then that bike was older than me. I once rode it 450 miles in about sixteen hours ... maybe eighteen. Top speed was close to sixty miles an hour. Compared with what I ride now, that journey was tougher than any Bun Burner Gold or SaddleSore 1000, but I was young, and more than a little foolish. In the US motorcycles have pretty much always been leisure vehicles. Yes there are people who use them as transport, but in the UK they were principally transport and it led to different development paths for both bike and riders. I have friends who think little of riding eleven thousand miles in eleven days, and others who love their motorcycles just as much, but who wouldn't dream of riding more than a couple of hundred miles in one go ... a distance that wouldn't even come close to emptying my gas tanks, yet each is as valuable to the sport as the other. It would be a grey world if we were all the same. There are those who think that riding 1500 miles in under 24 hours is foolish, even dangerous, and others who can't comprehend what it takes to do such a thing but would like to hear more about it. To deal with the safety aspects briefly, because it is a subject we will come back to. Riding a motorcycle is not the safest way to get from A to B. That is reserved for aircraft We all ride, and we know the risks yet choose to accept them. We live in a risk-averse society, yet we also realise that life is a continual balance between risk and reward. We could quit riding motorcycles and take the truck, or SUV, but the price we would pay for that is too much for most to accept. On the other hand, let's not get stupid about it. I have a wife and lots of kids and wherever I roam, they want me back in one piece. So we are going to be looking at not simply how to ride a long distance, but how to do so in as safe a manner as possible. It is notable that the accident statistics for LD Riders are about the same as for all motorcycles. The accident severity is generally less because of the insistence upon All The Gear, All The Time (ATGATT). The other thing that should be said upfront is that LD Riding is not about speed. Every Certificate Ride on the IBA website can be completed within the posted speed limits in the US. Indeed, it makes sense to keep your speed at a moderate level because the stopped time for gas outweighs the time gained by speeding once the speed creeps up to 80mph and beyond. "Performance Awards" from State Troopers are unwelcome expenses and many Rally Masters will disqualify riders who pick up too many tickets. The safest, and least tiring way to make progress is to ride at the speed that has you doing the least work in terms of over-taking and being passed. On most roads that trends towards the speed limit plus a few mph. It varies from place to place. The real secret is not to ride fast, but to keep the wheels turning as much as you can. If you are riding with a friend at a steady sixty miles per hour and you stop for ten minutes, it will take you one hour at seventy miles an hour to catch up with him ... You see how that can work against you? On this site we have broadly two kinds of bikes. The "slow but new" and the "slightly faster but old". We have the first and second generation Yamaha Ventures. The first thing to note is that they are all quite capable of doing anything and everything I will describe in these articles. When we look at buying and choosing a bike, the Venture might not be the first or best choice, but they are the bikes we have, and they are quite capable. Before we get ahead of ourselves though, we need to look at why anyone would do this at all. It is part of the human condition to explore our environments and our personal limits. People choose to do that in any number of ways. Some seek maximum financial gain as a measure. I once heard a billionaire say that the money was irrelevant other than a way of keeping score! Folk run marathons, play sports, write books or find some other hobby in which they strive to excel. Endurance has long played a part in our make-up, and I choose to explore my own limits on a motorcycle. What I am sure of is that many of us need to do "something", because forever sitting on the sofa is simply akin to "waiting for God". There may be readers who do not wish to ride long distances, but simply came here looking for tips on how to make their chosen journeys more efficient or more comfortable. I hope we can help you too. Riding for Certificates, or simply bragging rights is a solitary pastime. It brings it's own rewards. I well remember watching my GPS tick over 1000 miles. I was on a 1977 Yamaha XS750. It was raining hard and about 40F. I was thoroughly wet, very cold and I was into hour 20. The mixture of misery and elation I felt as I counted down the last mile, in tenths, would earn me a fortune if I could bottle and sell it. http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i418/twigg2324/IBA%20Saddle%20Sore%201000/IMG_0421.jpg Arriving home at end of Saddle Sore 1000 - March 2010 Beyond Certificate riding is a whole world of Rallying. These are like scavenger hunts on crack. The bonus is that you will get to meet many folk from all over the country in a spirit of fun and friendly rivalry. Again, the only prize is satisfaction. We will look at both. The principles are the same even for those simply going on vacation. You still have to manage the miles. You still want to be comfortable, well-hydrated and free of pain. The main difference is that generally the time pressure is removed and you are free to relax and stop where and when you fancy. ** I may edit this. A limitation of the Forum is that I can't save a draft so if it appears to grow in length, or sprout pictures you might want to scan through for stuff I added Part Two: http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=73853 Part Three: http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=74050 Edited October 30, 2012 by twigg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miles Posted October 8, 2012 Share #2 Posted October 8, 2012 Twigg, "It is notable that the accident statistics for LD Riders are about the same as for all motorcycles. The accident severity is generally less because of the insistence upon All The Gear, All The Time (ATGATT)." Your article is well written, and I really like where you have taken us, and the direction this is going. I would like to offer one very small correction. The quote I copied above, from your post, is incorrect. When you say that the accident statistics of LD Riders are about the same as for all motorcycles (I think you meant...motorcyclists)...that is not true. It is well know in the IBA, of which I know you are a member, that LD riding is based on safe riding, and the statistics have shown and proven that LD Riders have far fewer accidents than the vast majority of all other motorcyclists, simply due to experience, preparation for the ride, and a higher level of riding aptitude. And example is that during the bi-annual IronButt Rally (IBR), the 100 riders in the IBR ride approximately 1,000,000 miles combined during that 11 day event. Sometimes there are accidents, but not always. And when compared to any other 100 riders (non LD Riders) around this country, when these other 100 riders finally do complete 1,000,000 miles, the number of accidents, injuries, and even deaths are astronomical compared to the LD Riders that participate in the IBR. My very simple, and small point is...when it comes to riding safe miles, LD Riders are in a completely different realm than the normal, usual...(whatever)...motorcycle rider in this country. That is "not" meant to say that anyone on this list is normal, usual, or (whatever), but I think you get the point. Please...continue with your posts on this, as it will be very informative to all the abnormal, unusual riders on this list. Helpful too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twigg Posted October 8, 2012 Author Share #3 Posted October 8, 2012 Twigg, "It is notable that the accident statistics for LD Riders are about the same as for all motorcycles. The accident severity is generally less because of the insistence upon All The Gear, All The Time (ATGATT)." Please...continue with your posts on this, as it will be very informative to all the abnormal, unusual riders on this list. Helpful too. Y'all deserve an explanation for that point ... I generally believe that LD Riders, by virtue of all the things said in the comment, have better accident rates than motorcyclists generally. Indeed I have said as much before. Recently, however, there was a protracted discussion on the LD Rider List that cast some doubt on that belief. While I personally still believe that we are generally safer, I was not prepared to actually make the claim and stand accused of putting too good a gloss on the real situation. The sport is really too small for significant accident stats to emerge, and they don't always measure the right things anyway. When people ask me about riding 1000 miles I generally try to put them off. I need to be persuaded that they really are up for this, before we start talking about "how". So you may be quite correct. Please excuse my caution on this matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twigg Posted October 8, 2012 Author Share #4 Posted October 8, 2012 I'll expand on that a little ... It would be very reasonable to suggest that the "per mile" risk to LD Riders is minute compared to the general riding population. It is also true that one is exposed to that risk for a much greater period of time than the average rider. LD Riders are amongst the most experienced, and most competent ... and many of the miles are Interstate miles, which are the safest of all. But accidents do happen. Often fatigue is blamed, yet there is little evidence for this and the whole sport is continually discussing ways to manage tiredness, and ride within your limits .... and knowing what those limits are. We will come back to this because it is key. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncledj Posted October 8, 2012 Share #5 Posted October 8, 2012 I know that after 400 miles or so in one day, I'm not as fresh, perhaps not as focused, a bit uncomfortable, (iron butt) and more concerned with getting where I'm going than enjoying the ride. I remember once when I was in my early 20s, after a long ride, fighting to stay awake on a ride somewhere between Ft. Lauderdale and Key Largo. Riding these long distances can be dangerous for some folks. There really should be a law against such dangerous activity....maybe limiting riding time to 8 to ten hours per day, similar to what truckers have to abide by. I'd just like everyone to be safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twigg Posted October 8, 2012 Author Share #6 Posted October 8, 2012 I know that after 400 miles or so in one day, I'm not as fresh, perhaps not as focused, a bit uncomfortable, (iron butt) and more concerned with getting where I'm going than enjoying the ride. I remember once when I was in my early 20s, after a long ride, fighting to stay awake on a ride somewhere between Ft. Lauderdale and Key Largo. Riding these long distances can be dangerous for some folks. There really should be a law against such dangerous activity....maybe limiting riding time to 8 to ten hours per day, similar to what truckers have to abide by. I'd just like everyone to be safe. The amount of time a person spends doing ANY activity is a matter of personal responsibility. Professional drivers face outside pressures that leisure riders do not, and limiting their driving removes that external influence. There are many activities that other people might consider dangerous, including car driving. As motorcyclists we are no different to any other road users, and we need to resist efforts to single us out for special treatment. There would be far fewer motorcycle accidents if car drivers paid more attention, and while I don't have actual figures I have never heard that fatigue is a major cause of motorcycle accidents although it is a significant factor in car accidents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainJoe Posted October 8, 2012 Share #7 Posted October 8, 2012 Good read. There are variables to be considered, that will have a huge impact, on how you feel about a longe distance rides. Had a nephew that rode to California on a Harley Sportster 10 or so years ago. He doesn't ride much now. Rode to Cape Canavrial, 1000 mi, in 500 mile legs on a V-star 650 (without a windshield) and it just about killed me. Was stopping every 100 mi. to fuel up and recover. The very next year went back to the Cape with a Memphis Shades windshield in 500 mi. legs and it was no biggie... The next year, went ot Eugune, OR "on the same bike" with the longest leg being a little over 700 mi. and my butt was so sore(tailbones) that I bought an Air Hawk for the return trip home. I bought the 2007 midnight Venture and can truthfully say riding out the 200 mi tank full of gas at the speed limit, and, riding 600 mi. a day is very enjoyable. In fact I feel spoiled with all the amenities the Venture has. Thinking some of it depends on past experiences? looking forward to doing a trip through the Grand Canyon, then onto the mountains of Colorado late spring early summer next year. Guess it's on my Bucket list...LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trader Posted October 8, 2012 Share #8 Posted October 8, 2012 Well written and I'm looking forward to reading the entire series! I ride because it is FUN even at reasonable speeds. Hour after hour on a superslab which are relatively straight and flat, is not what I would consider interesting or fun! Also, I am a marshmallow butt. By the end of a tank of gas I'm ready to stretch my legs for a few minutes. I would imagine that the rallies or poker run type of thing would be more suited to my type of riding...although I've never taken part in anything like that either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twigg Posted October 8, 2012 Author Share #9 Posted October 8, 2012 Well written and I'm looking forward to reading the entire series! I ride because it is FUN even at reasonable speeds. Hour after hour on a superslab which are relatively straight and flat, is not what I would consider interesting or fun! Also, I am a marshmallow butt. By the end of a tank of gas I'm ready to stretch my legs for a few minutes. I would imagine that the rallies or poker run type of thing would be more suited to my type of riding...although I've never taken part in anything like that either. On the less extreme IBA rides there is plenty of time to get off the bike and rest, walk around etc. 1000 miles in 24 hours is only a moving average of 43 mph. Sixteen to eighteen hours riding is about average for most who do it. The extreme rides are trickier, and for those you need to prepare both yourself and your bike ... We will cover that. The IBA will not allow anyone to claim a Cert. for an extreme ride before they have completed one of the easier ones ... I use the term "easier", advisedly On my last Rally I completed an SS1000 during the event. That included very little Interstate, lots of bonus hunting and even seven miles on a dirt road. It also included a five hour rest stop. I got the timed receipt two minutes under the 24 hours having covered around 1030 miles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddevilmedic Posted October 8, 2012 Share #10 Posted October 8, 2012 good read, but, "slightly faster"?... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twigg Posted October 8, 2012 Author Share #11 Posted October 8, 2012 good read, but, "slightly faster"?... I'm a great believer in "something for everyone" I once wrote an article that included the phrase "and who the hell wants to ride across Kansas?" ... I can still hear the howls of protest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miles Posted October 8, 2012 Share #12 Posted October 8, 2012 (edited) Riding these long distances can be dangerous for some folks. There really should be a law against such dangerous activity....maybe limiting riding time to 8 to ten hours per day, similar to what truckers have to abide by. PLEASE...PLEASE do not say that to anyone else outside your own home. I am all for people having an opinion, and I respect your opinion. But there is a huge difference between a truck driver that is hauling 80,000 lbs. of iron/goods versus a LD rider that is maybe 1000 lbs fully loaded. There should be no laws restricting the number of hours a motorcycle rider can...ride in a day. As my comrade from Maine says...Educate, don't legislate. Edited October 8, 2012 by Freebird Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pktexas Posted October 8, 2012 Share #13 Posted October 8, 2012 Twigg, thanks for the thread. LD riding is not for everyone and can be hard to explain to others why we do it. We don't take these rides lightly, and do them for various reasons of our own. Looking forward for future writings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus1300 Posted October 8, 2012 Share #14 Posted October 8, 2012 (edited) Hi Twigg Thank you for taking the time to write these articles. I personally have a great interest in LD riding tho I will probably never do any.I still enjoy learning about it and I am sure that some of the ideas and tips you post will help me in the riding/traveling that I do. Edited October 8, 2012 by Pegasus1300 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeS Posted October 8, 2012 Share #15 Posted October 8, 2012 How far to ride on a given day ?? It boils down to, did you get a good nights sleep ? do you have all the gear you need ? Is your bike up to the task ? Do you have a good set of tires? Are you prepared for whatever weather you might encounter? And another point, which is hard to pin down is that little voice, in the back of your mind, that seems to tell you to keep going, after 500 miles, OR, its time to hang it up for the day. Just because you went 500 miles yesterday, don't mean that its a good thing to do today!! Some days, the ride goes good, other days, things happen and its best to hang it up !! I have a rule, if Three Things happen , on the road that are " Not Good " I hit the first Motel 6 I see !!! Like what ?? Well there was the Truck Tire Caseing that flew Over the Top of the car that was right next to me on I-5 comeing thru Eugene Oregon about 2 years ago. That would be a good example of " Things that happen " on the road. I know, we all have about 50 of these stories, but I'm sure we all get the point. Seems to me, that the point of this thread, is simply, Use your head !!! Make good decisions, sometimes a T-Bone Steak and a good nights sleep, is far more important then another 200 Miles !!! Ride Safe, my friends !! :whistling: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twigg Posted October 8, 2012 Author Share #16 Posted October 8, 2012 How far to ride on a given day ?? It boils down to, did you get a good nights sleep ? do you have all the gear you need ? Is your bike up to the task ? Do you have a good set of tires? Are you prepared for whatever weather you might encounter? And another point, which is hard to pin down is that little voice, in the back of your mind, that seems to tell you to keep going, after 500 miles, OR, its time to hang it up for the day. Just because you went 500 miles yesterday, don't mean that its a good thing to do today!! Some days, the ride goes good, other days, things happen and its best to hang it up !! I have a rule, if Three Things happen , on the road that are " Not Good " I hit the first Motel 6 I see !!! Like what ?? Well there was the Truck Tire Caseing that flew Over the Top of the car that was right next to me on I-5 comeing thru Eugene Oregon about 2 years ago. That would be a good example of " Things that happen " on the road. I know, we all have about 50 of these stories, but I'm sure we all get the point. Seems to me, that the point of this thread, is simply, Use your head !!! Make good decisions, sometimes a T-Bone Steak and a good nights sleep, is far more important then another 200 Miles !!! Ride Safe, my friends !! :whistling: Good comment. The title of the next in the Series is "Know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em". Knowing when to stop is by far the single most important thing here ... and we will look at examples, and what the signs are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleeperhawk Posted October 8, 2012 Share #17 Posted October 8, 2012 I'm a great believer in "something for everyone" I once wrote an article that included the phrase "and who the hell wants to ride across Kansas?" ... I can still hear the howls of protest And you said that considering your in Oklahoma with all that red dirt? I know when I leave Kansas into Oklahoma, bamm there is the red dirt. Oh, and we will be crossing Oklahoma this week going to Kansas :rasberry: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twigg Posted October 8, 2012 Author Share #18 Posted October 8, 2012 And you said that considering your in Oklahoma with all that red dirt? I know when I leave Kansas into Oklahoma, bamm there is the red dirt. Oh, and we will be crossing Oklahoma this week going to Kansas :rasberry: Having ridden across Oklahoma, Kansas and Nebraska, I'd take Oklahoma. A ride West through the OK panhandle is quite something, very different to the almost endless "sameness" of the other two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncledj Posted October 8, 2012 Share #19 Posted October 8, 2012 I know that after 400 miles or so in one day, I'm not as fresh, perhaps not as focused, a bit uncomfortable, (iron butt) and more concerned with getting where I'm going than enjoying the ride. I remember once when I was in my early 20s, after a long ride, fighting to stay awake on a ride somewhere between Ft. Lauderdale and Key Largo. Riding these long distances can be dangerous for some folks. There really should be a law against such dangerous activity....maybe limiting riding time to 8 to ten hours per day, similar to what truckers have to abide by. I'd just like everyone to be safe. Don't get too upset. I was being facetious. A bike, a car, a truck or any other vehicle driven on the road by a fatigued operator can cause a lot more damage than just to the operator. A motorist trying to avoid an errant motorcyle can easily cause injury or death to others, as compared to a biker who chooses not to wear a helmet, who can only injure or kill themselves. The same goes for riding in the rain, when a bike is less safe than a car, since the center of gravity changes on a bike, making it easier to slide out on a curve than a car, as well as the impaired visibility of a rain covered windshield or helmet visor on a bike; again, making the bike more dangerous. I was just trying to make the point that the less regulation, and the more reliance on personal responsibility and restraint the better. Sorry to get everyone off track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XV1100SE Posted October 8, 2012 Share #20 Posted October 8, 2012 ... I am sure that some of the ideas and tips you post will help me in the riding/traveling that I do. Agree with you. I don't have a problem riding a long distance if I'm going somewhere specific. In planning a "long distance" ride/vacation, I'm intending to stop to sight see, call it a day if I'm tired. But looking forward to any tips I can pick up thru this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rody 1949 Posted October 8, 2012 Share #21 Posted October 8, 2012 WOW! This is much more than what was expecting, and you have not even started. Thanks again, I'm looking fordward to read an re-read the entire thread. Rudy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eck Posted October 8, 2012 Share #22 Posted October 8, 2012 (edited) This thread was edited by ECK to eliminate "certain words" and or "phrases", in an effort to keep the writers point of view / opinon, and I also deleted a couple posts from this thread to keep original thread intent on its course of LD riding. Please do not be offended if I deleted your post. Heck Ive had 5 of mine deleted already since Ive been a member here.. Edited October 8, 2012 by Eck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XV1100SE Posted October 8, 2012 Share #23 Posted October 8, 2012 ....A sleepy motorcycle rider traveling at 80 mph, and has been riding straight for 18 hours can absolutely wipe out a minivan full of kids. ... Good point ! This is where size doesn't matter. Any object travelling at a high rate of speed can inflict a lot of damage when it comes to a sudden stop. ...A bike, a car, a truck or any other vehicle driven on the road by a fatigued operator can cause a lot more damage than just to the operator. A motorist trying to avoid an errant motorcyle can easily cause injury or death to others, ... The same goes for riding in the rain, when a bike is less safe than a car, since the center of gravity changes on a bike, making it easier to slide out on a curve than a car, as well as the impaired visibility of a rain covered windshield or helmet visor on a bike; again, making the bike more dangerous..... Another good point, one that goes outside the boundaries of just driving (any vehicle) when you are tired. Hadn't thought about the "risks" involved in riding in the rain with sliding or reduced visability. But where do you draw the line on being a responsible citizen? Not only do truck drivers have limitations, so do bus drivers, pilots and even train operators. Think some of the limits imposed are to reduce liability of the operator/owner but also because our thought patterns and reasoning are impacted by fatigue. Everyone has a different limit. And yes... it is to protect the operator from demanding employers too. Do I want to be in front of a trucker that has been driving for 24 hours straight? Not a chance... just like a trucker (or anyone for that matter) doesn't want a car coming towards them where the driver has been drinking. ....the less regulation, and the more reliance on personal responsibility and restraint the better. There are two sides in this arguement. One is responsible people taking responsible actions. The other side is the need for legislation to protect people from themselves. See Darwin awards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddyRich Posted October 8, 2012 Share #24 Posted October 8, 2012 Heck Ive had 5 of mine deleted already since Ive been a member here..[/b] Yea, Then we showed up at your door with big sticks and you stop doin that didn't you?:rotf: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmelah Posted October 8, 2012 Share #25 Posted October 8, 2012 Twigg i enjoyed reading what you have written so far and look forward to reading more. as an ex professional cross country truck driver i have spent many hours behind the wheel of a big truck and have visited all lower 48 states (49 by a proxy load going to Hawaii) as well as 3 Canadian provinces (beautiful country) and have traveled long distance to Philadelphia PA and over to Wildwood NJ 1483 mi. in 22 hrs (Grand Paw passed away) on a Honda Shadow 1100 that was my first LD ride on a bike and was done with no pre trip planing boy did i forget some things to take on the trip planing is a key as well as safety and knowing when to stop for rest that was 20+ years ago. Keep writing and ill keep reading Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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