Ethanol Fuel issues!!

[af226]

Just watched Motoring 2012 on TSN and they were talking about Ethanol fuel in carburated engines. Ethanol causes deterioration of rubber carb parts. Any ideas as to which gas stations sell regular gas with no ethanol in Canada??

 

Learned something new today!!

[Flyinfool]

I have been running the 10% ethanol crap gas in my 1st gen for the last 5 years, And since the bike was local, I assume that the PO did also. My carbs have not yet needed a rebuild.

I do add Seafoam regularly because it has oil as one of its ingredients which helps the carbs out.

 

Once you get outside of the ethanol mandated area here, there are some stations that carry ethanol free in the premium gas.

I have no idea whats available in Canada.

[mbrood]

Just click on your state...

http://pure-gas.org/

[tazmocycle]

sta-bil has a new formula for the ethanol gas if you let it set up for anytime. i added the regular sta-bil to mine in 09 when i had surgery and after 5 month it wouldn't crank, when i broke down the carbs, they had a lot of white jelly looking gunk and real fine white sand look stuff in them. first time i've ever seen anything like it and i always run sea foam or techron thru them regularly.

[Guest scarylarry]

sta-bil has a new formula for the ethanol gas if you let it set up for anytime. i added the regular sta-bil to mine in 09 when i had surgery and after 5 month it wouldn't crank, when i broke down the carbs, they had a lot of white jelly looking gunk and real fine white sand look stuff in them. first time i've ever seen anything like it and i always run sea foam or techron thru them regularly.

 

What I saw was a green sta-bil and was for marine but will work in any engine just marines motors are more subject to damage is what I was told...

[steamer]

Seafoam for cleaning, tectron for daily use and storage.

[twigg]

It is possible that ethanol affects rubber, and Venture carbs have more rubber than most. Most simply have the butterfly shaft seals, but we also have the jetblock bungs.

 

I can't help feeling that most issues are more related to age and hardening, and fresh rubber parts would last years before the ethanol really affected them much.

 

If it were a major issue then pretty much all carbs would be affected, quite quickly ... and they aren't.

[friesman]

I have noticed in Canada Shell puts it right on the pumps that low end will be up to 15%, mid up to 5% and that their best fuel has no ethanol at all in it. Thats why i run a premium tank every once in a while.

 

Brian

[Mike G in SC]

Look for STARTRON in stores. In WalMart it is in the marine section next to the boat oil.

The bottle is Windex blue. About $8 but goes a long way.

It is for both ethanol and water in gas. Good stuff, will make ethanol gas safe for months.

 

 

 

 

http://content.westmarine.com/images/catalog/large/5617741.jpg

Edited October 8, 2012 by Mike G in SC

[Pegasus1300]

+1 on the Startron.Not all Wal-Marts have it though. And as boating season fades in some areas thry may not carry it for awhile.

[Guest scarylarry]

Most MC dealers and TSC carries it as well..

[darthandy]

The ethanol mixtures I've seen advertised here in Ontario were never more than 10% ethanol. As well, I've been doing a lot of reading on the subject as there is quite a controversy regarding the ethanol industry's attempt to move to a 15% mixture. In a nutshell, the worst problems for carbureted machines occur to those machines built before 1991 when all motors were required to be able to handle up to 10% ethanol. In newer machines, the main problem occurs when gas is left to sit for a long time without some type of stabilizer to prevent varnish build up. Obviously, the problem is greater for those of us with older bikes that have not had their carburettors updated with ethanol compatible parts. Of course, the info on this subject is far more detailed than what I have here, but basically, if you have a machine newer than 1991, be sure to add gas stabilizer to your gas if you're storing your machine for more than a few days (Yeah, that's right - days not weeks) or you run the risk of varnish build up clogging the jets. On older machines, the reports I've read all say the same thing. Either upgrade your carbs with ethanol compatible parts or eventually, the plastic and rubber parts will deteriorate at a greater than normal rate. As it stands, tests have shown that a greater than 10% ethanol mixture will be harmful to even the newer carbureted machines. The reports stated that additives will not have much of an effect on the deterioration of plastic and rubber parts. Those parts were made to handle a 10% mixture and it seems that extra 5% may be too much for them. And by the way, this goes for ATV's, lawn mowers, snow blowers, etc.

 

Ain't life fun?

 

Andy

[dacheedah]

If you can buy aircraft gas, it has no ethanol and it won't varnish. If our government wanted to get really better gas mileage they would nix the ethanol, your gas mileage goes up without the ethanol.

 

I have used marine stabil in everything gas I own, except my cars, and it works fine. My marina suggested it after I had three of four injectors replaced, one at a time and over time ( Under warranty ). I have not had an issue since.

[Keemez]

If you can buy aircraft gas, it has no ethanol and it won't varnish.

 

Yeah but AVGAS (100LL) has lead in it. Not good.

[Max]

Any ideas as to which gas stations sell regular gas with no ethanol in Canada??

I've been told that 'premium only' - Shell, PetroCan & Ultramar are the only three without ethanol in Ontario.

[Evan]

There is a web site which has info on stations that have ethanol free gas. It is http://www.pure-gas.com. It claims that premium Canadian Tire gas is also ethanol free.

[darthandy]

There is a web site which has info on stations that have ethanol free gas. It is http://www.pure-gas.com. It claims that premium Canadian Tire gas is also ethanol free.

 

That's quite possible since CTC is supplied by Shell which claims to have no ethanol in their premium.

 

Andy

[jasonm.]

Look for STARTRON in stores. In WalMart it is in the marine section next to the boat oil.

The bottle is Windex blue. About $8 but goes a long way.

It is for both ethanol and water in gas. Good stuff, will make ethanol gas safe for months.

 

 

http://content.westmarine.com/images/catalog/large/5617741.jpg

YES

Stabil is simply not as concentrated.

Edited October 13, 2012 by jasonm.

[JohnT]

Here in my area more stations are replacing ethanol premium with non ethanol. At a somewhat higher price of course. Most stations that have it are selling 91 octane non ethanol.

In anything that the gas does not sit around for a long time I have had little to no issues. My chainsaw has been a PITA though. White "sugary" looking junk in the carb and tank till I started using sta bil and K 100 religiously in it. It gets home owner use so it sits a lot.

My GS 1100 just got the winter fuel load. I add recommended amounts of K 100, Marvel Mystery Oil, and Sta-Bil, then fill the tank and run it for a bit. I have had 0 spring starting issues since and have yet to have to service a carb since doing this. They start in the spring and run decent.

Going to do the same with my VR. The VR is not going to sit as long as the GS though. Still getting it out now and then. Weather permitting.

It's going t be a long winter.

[vee4dfw]

The ethanol eats away at the carb diaphrams and will cause small tears in them. It's always good to take them out after the riding season is over and hold them up to the light for inspection. The poor man's solution for micros tears is a small dab of crazy glue.

 

You don't want to store the bike for the winter with tears because the cold will stiffen the diaphrams and when you fire the bike up after storage they won't be very pliable and the tears will get worse.

[jfoster]

Someone talked about using camping fuel one time... What was the benefit of it?

[darthandy]

Someone talked about using camping fuel one time... What was the benefit of it?

 

If I remember correctly (And if I don't, someone will correct me.) it will act as a fuel system cleaner. In fact, I believe someone on this forum had checked out the "ingredient" list for Seafoam and discovered that a large part of it was basically camp fuel. Of course, by itself, it's missing some of the other useful additives found in Seafoam that allow it to act as a fuel stabilizer as well as a fuel system "antifreeze".

 

Andy

[Guest scarylarry]

Someone talked about using camping fuel one time... What was the benefit of it?

 

I really don't know but reinventing the wheel is not always best..

 

Good question but I would not risk it in anything I own...

[Flyinfool]

The camp fuel is a popular gasoline replacement used in big radio control helicopters.

Camp fuel is just naphtha.

It has an the equivalent of around a 70 something octain rating. so it is only safe in very low compression engines.

It also generates a little less horsepower than gasoline and will require the carbs to be re-tuned to get the mixture correct.

I do use it in some of my model aircraft mainly because it does not stink when I bring them into the house. I would not run a motor vehicle on it. It will most likely cause a lot of engine knock and potentially damage if the engine does not have a knock sensor to retard the timing.

[GaryZ]

There are lots of stations with 100% gas (all grades) in Oklahoma

 

This thread has me thinking about how the "Beast" keeps having carb problems. . .

 

The carbs have 78,000+ miles on them and 20,000 are mine. I have run it about half the time on E10. I did not know, or had not registered, that pre-1991 seals and gaskets were susceptible to E10. Thinking back, it seems to me each time I let the "Beast" sit for a couple of weeks there is another carb problem.

 

Do we know that rebuild kits will have updated seals and gaskets?

 

On a tangent: What do you experts say about E10 and rebuild kits for Q-jet carbs?