Sloppy Front End

[ablumny]

Hi riders!

 

My 03 2nd gen is giving me trouble. The front end is a mess. It feels sloppy and unsettling all the time. In a lean, the front end is wobbly. I put it on a lift, grabbed the front wheel, don't feel any head bearing clicking. I don't get any bounce back when I send the bars to one side or the other. The tire is perfect, no cupping, the wheel is rotating as it should be.

 

Back on the ground, and facing down hill, I let it roll a bit, hit the front brake and I can feel a click. I don't feel the forks bounce unusually. I have a new Works rear shock which is fine.

 

I've got 21k on it. Never did either the bearings of fork work. Anyone want to come to long island and help replace it all ? Any ideas.

[ablumny]

Thanks for the reply.ive reviewed all the standard tests to draw the conclusions I listed. Have a carbon one liftsdapter , great product , I keep tire pressure constant and these Dunlop e3's are a year old with no abnormal signs of wear. I have a small hand pump made for the task, each shock has zero psi however when I tested.

 

I've done no maintenance on the front end, ever. Ill put it back on the lift tomorrow. I know there's a prob there somewhere .....

 

Thx

[Miles]

Just a few added notes here: I think you might want to check, and then re-check, that new rear shock installation. Something may not be right there, or may be loose. Generally, but not always, a bad feeling front end can be attributed to a problem in the rear of the bike.

 

While you say in your second post that you are running I year old Dunlop E-3's, and you say the tire pressue is constant...that doesn't say much. It is constant at...what pressures? While my esteemed colleague from Ontario suggests using the OEM recommended tires pressures of 35 psi in front, and 40 psi on the rear...I would raise that front pressure to either 38 psi or up to as high as 40 psi.

 

I am a tire (nut), and have the time, equipment, and dollars to be able to test tires and pressures. On my last ride, last 10 days on the road, but only 5 days of actual riding, I covered 4217 miles, with i year old Dunlop E-3's, and I checked my tire pressures every second day, due to altitude changes and road temps. I have found that 38 psi on the front, and 40 on the rear, work best for me. But as a caviat, I will say that I run my bike at very high speeds, and ride for 12 to 16 hours straight each day. Sometimes a solid 24 hour ride if I have to.

 

IMHO (ha ha), I would look at the rear of your bike.

[Flyinfool]

Thanks for the reply.ive reviewed all the standard tests to draw the conclusions I listed. Have a carbon one liftsdapter , great product , I keep tire pressure constant and these Dunlop e3's are a year old with no abnormal signs of wear. I have a small hand pump made for the task, each shock has zero psi however when I tested.

 

I've done no maintenance on the front end, ever. Ill put it back on the lift tomorrow. I know there's a prob there somewhere .....

 

Thx

 

When you say EACH shock has zero pressure?? Unless you have progressive springs in the front I thought you want some pressure in them.

[ablumny]

Thanks everyone.

 

I am also fixated on proper tire maintenance, cars and bike, bike more sofor obvious reasons. I'm a big boy so I keep the front at 36-38# and the rear at 45. I check before every ride other then short trips.

 

Yea, I thought about checking that rear shock install and while I'm looking back there, check what I can related to suspension. I'll recheck front components again this weekend.

 

I'll have updated facts afterwards.

 

Thx again.

[Red1]

Just my recent experience - Checking air pressures before I left for MN for the PIP, I put the front and rear tires at 36 psi. I had the rear of the bike loaded pretty good. But I thought I'd put a little pressure in the front shocks before I left anyway. It seemed to make the front end a little squirrely, so at the first gas stop I let all the air out of the fronts and increased the rear shock pressure to 45 psi. Made a noticeable improvement in the handling. If you're a big guy (I'm 160) - I'd try increasing rear tire and shock pressure to "lift" the rear of the bike, shifting more weight to the front tire.

[ablumny]

Had the bike on a jack all day, checking everything over again.

 

- few month old rear Works shock is still mounted properly and both bolts still tight. Not leaking, no issues. Links are properly installed still.

- jump up and down on the seat, no unexpected rear bounce or noises.

- seat is tight

- couldn't do much with the rear end suspension other then spinning the tire, pushing the rear end left and right, up and down looking for obvious loose parts, clicks, noises. Nothing.

- Front wheel rotates fine, doesn't have any abnormal movement.

- front tire is evenly worn, no cupping, no visual issues. Spun it as fast as possible, looked for abnormal surface run out, nada

- both tires holding the same psi from last weekends check

- grabbed the front wheel, lifted up and down looking for movement in the head bearing, nope.

- tossed the handlebars to one side, did get an unexpected bouncy back this time. Tossed them to the other side, kinda the same but harder to say with all then cables and hoses preventing complete steering lock.

 

So I decide that the steering head bearing might need to be tightened. I've done this before using a "cheat" method I read about here. I take a small headlong punch and tap the bottom nut. I go just more then a 1/4 turn. The is to side bounce test is much better.

 

I don't understand the top nut. I thought it was used to lock down the bottom nut. However there are small "straps" (thing with the dot on it in the picture below) that span one nut to the other. They seem to be able to be prayed away and the top nut rotates kind of freely, being held in position and inline with the bottom nut by this "strap".

 

Anyway, I run 45# in the rear, 40#in the front, no air in the front shock. Out for a ride and there is noticeable improvement. I'll take a longer ride tomorrow to see for sure.

 

So I point to the steering head bearings. Not sure how long my cheat fix will last. Anyone know what that top/bottom. It is all about?

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/K56CNIhHFcEGZFWJkknABdMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink

 

Thx

Andrew

Edited September 9, 2012 by ablumny

[ablumny]

Hmmm. The top nut should be tight against the bottom, makes sense but mine is not. I don't see how this is possible as the tab or strap as I described it seems to prevent independent movement of each nut.

 

Went for a longer ride. In the beginning, I'd swear it was better, at the end, felt like it was sloppy again. I'll look at the nuts again.

Edited September 11, 2012 by ablumny

[playboy]

As I understand the Cheat or short cut method of adjusting the steering head. You need to loosen the top cap nut first the chrome one under the handle bars. Then tap the two nuts with the locking tabs. Yes both will turn they can't help it. When this adjustment is done per the manual you would remove the top locking nut and washer and only torque the lower nut to spec. then reinstall the other nut and locking washer. This would obviously take a lot more work just to get to them hence the short cut. But after you have tapped the two locking nuts the chrome nut under the handle bars needs to be re tightened.

 

 

re read your last post and there is a rubber washer between the locking nuts if I'm reading the manual right. This is probably the gap your seeing between the nuts. I first thought you were talking about a gap under the chrome nut.

Edited September 11, 2012 by playboy

[ablumny]

I havethe Clymer manual.

https://picasaweb.google.com/116811512302801092027/VentureStuff#5787072008259027042

 

I see the stack up now. playboy,your description makes sense but The cheat method doesnt allow for removal of the lock washer with the tab then. I'll look around the forum again on the subject. Thx

[reddevilmedic]

so let me get this right.......the nut behind the wheel is loose?

[ablumny]

Nut behind the wheel is loose? Totally!

 

What a week, pressu valve on boiler pops, floods basement. Clean that up, fix problem , 4 days later, cesspool backs up, floods basement...finished basement! Now I need two new cesspools. Seems like the original 40yo block construction cesspools have had it.

 

Anyway.... Got the bike back on the jack. I never focused on the chrome nut. My bad, very bad as the nut was loose. I decided to pinch down the two lock nuts a bit more after doing the handle bar test again, then cranked down the chrome nut. Went for a test ride, definite difference , however still squirrelly in a lean. Back on the jack, change focus to back end. It appears the back tire has some kind of cupping issue. What a mess.

 

https://picasaweb.google.com/116811512302801092027/VentureStuff#5788838455555081122

 

https://picasaweb.google.com/116811512302801092027/VentureStuff#5788838424749479906

 

https://picasaweb.google.com/116811512302801092027/VentureStuff#5788838481891241810

 

I think this tire was made 48th week of 2009? Too long for dunlop to warrant?

 

Thanks for all the advice. I think the rear tire needs to be replaced and I'll pay attention to the head bearings ...

[Ventureless]

Sorry for bringing up an old thread. But I am having a sloppy feeling in my front end. I have done the tests and things feel ok. Front end feels very loose. Recent maintenance includes new Hagon rear shock, new Pirelli rear tire, and new rear pads and rotor. It felt great for a few weeks and then the front end started feeling extremely loose. The reason I dug up this thread was because it talks about the locking tab on the steering head nuts. Looking at the pics it seems the locking tab should be locked in both nuts. Mine is not. It is in a groove on the top nut and then rests on the outside of the bottom nut. Now I am thinking maybe it should be in a groove on the bottom as well. I can post a pic when I get home today. Just some other factors. Dunlop E3 on the front (soon to be replaced but still in good shape). New Hagon shock (Everything is tight and seems to be working with it). Leveling links (Some have said with the aftermarket shock they have removed the links). Front tire pressure right around 42. Rear tire pressure right around 42. Tire pressures have been at those pressures since I got the bike. 0 PSI in the front shocks (been that way since I got the bike). And when I say loose, I mean very light feeling. Slow speeds now take more effort. Curves still feel ok (no wobble or anything). Straight line a pain in the a^^. Feels like the bike really wants to wander. I am going to try to tighten up the head nuts this weekend but other than that, any suggestions.

Edited August 6, 2013 by Ventureless

[Condor]

Sorry for bringing up an old thread. But I am having a sloppy feeling in my front end. I have done the tests and things feel ok. .

 

It seems to me that Y had a problem with the steering head lower bearing race breaking loose, and not being able to adjust the play. This was a long time ago, and it might have only been the one incidence?? If I remember correctly the member could adjust the bearings and they would loosen up after riding a while. I'm not saying this is your problem, but it's one more thing to look at....