Harley Death "Wobble"

[ronjolly]

Last week a few friends were coming home from Sturgus, our friend waz (is) 75 on an Elec Glide just put $5k in it. They stopped for a break in Kansas and said lets pic it up a little we were doing 75-80, got up to 90 when we looked back he waz not there. Turned around went back cars were stopped around him , he was unconsince ribs broke arm all scent up from road rash. He is in the hospitial in Kas. Havent heard yet how he is doing..

Check out Google. Harley Death Wobble. Never heard of it before..

[Ghostman]

Yikes... That is scary stuff. Hope your friend is alright.

[XV1100SE]

http://www.2keller.com/library/harley-davidson-wobble.cfm

[etcswjoe]

Never heard of it either, prayers to your friend.

[Cougar]

Had that same thing happened to me when I was 29

on a KZ1000

went down at 75 mph.... very scary

only had about 300 stitches.

I hope your friend has a speedy recovery!

Jeff

[PBJ]

prayer to your friend never good when a rider goes down, no matter what they are riding.

[hunter 1500]

There have been some discussions on this on another forum and all the Harley riders claim it just isn't so. Not sure if it is or not but it is something to think about.

[OB-1]

Back in the late 70's when I started riding I had a 76 Harley FLH. That bike had a load of Harley AMF problems, but a "death wobble wasn't one of them. Being a youngster at the time I rode very agressively and never experienced the "death wobble". I put 100,000 miles on that bike before selling it. I think that if such a "death wobble" existed as some sort of design flaw I would have experienced it at least once. Just my opinion. YMMV:backinmyday:

 

Prayers sent for a full and speedy recovery for the gentlman that went down.

[MikeWa]

Yes I never had a flat tire so flat tires don't exist. I have driven hundreds of thousands of miles. So if there was such a thing I would have experienced it.

 

Mike

[Squidley]

I saw some info on this, it seems that it in some of the newer models. I recalled that they actually had a trained bike cop that crashed because of it. They recalled the bikes, so much so that now you see a lot more metrics replacing the H/D's with the cops.

 

I see a lot of wings and ST1300's on police forces these days all over the country.

[Guest scarylarry]

Unless you are in the high rent area, some areas here have went to BMW, and they are in a lawsuit over a seat...So we pick local LEO's every chance we can get..

[Squidley]

Unless you are in the high rent area, some areas here have went to BMW, and they are in a lawsuit over a seat...So we pick local LEO's every chance we can get..

 

I truly think it's whose bottom line is the best, although I know I see less H/D's and more G/W. I have seen some Beemers too, but those can be a picky bike too.

[FuzzyRSTD]

My friend JD Holbrooks rides a Harley Road King and he experienced the death wobble in West Virginia as we where on a ride and he was going into a curve at a little faster speed than was posted, but not a dangerous stupid speed. He is a good responsible rider and we have a great respect for each other and the motorcycles we ride. It scared me and him both to a point that we stopped and took an hour brake before we returned back to riding. He was in front of me and almost completely lost it, but right as he was going into the guard rail, with the help and mercy of God, he regained enough control to get it slowed down and back into the road. I was riding the same speed behind him and I could not figure out what in the world caused the wobble. I thought that maybe his kick stand came down or something. That experience really made a believer out of me and JD. Will his next bike be a Harley, I do not know about that, but for me, I think I will stick to something else because of that very day and experience that really made me sick to my stomach thinking about the what if, into the guard rail. Thank God JD was not hurt and no other traffic was behind us.

 

No disrespect to those with a Harley, but it is true and please be aware. I saw it with my own eyes, and it was unreal. The wobble was very dramatic and sharp at an instance.

 

PS: Prayers for your friend. I hope he recovers quickly. When he feels like it, ask him what happened and let us know.

 

Fuzzy

Edited September 2, 2012 by FuzzyRSTD

[Guest scarylarry]

I truly think it's whose bottom line is the best, although I know I see less H/D's and more G/W. I have seen some Beemers too, but those can be a picky bike too.

 

 

This is the lawsuit:

http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2012/04/30/calif-man-sues-bmw-for-persistent-erection/

[hog]

I used to own a 88 Kawasaki Voyager 1200 which most of the Voyagers was known to have a low speed wobble,parking lot speeds etc. that was easily cured by installing a front fork brace called the super brace which replaced the weak factory one.Well my bike did not have one and the low speed wobble was bearable no big problem.But once I had it up to 110 MPH I started to feel a slight wobble in the front so I backed off the throttle.But one afternoon I was coming home from work and it started raining and I knew that the one road was being resurfaced and that what they were doing was putting down oil after they had milled the surface then would asphalt over it and from riding to work that morning and seeing them oiling I knew that somewhere I was going to hit a spot where there was oil with the rain on top of it but did not know where.Suddenly it opened up and started pouring rain my visibility was terrible I had to lean out around the windshield to see where I was then I saw a sign and so I slowed to 30mph and then felt the drop off from the fresh asphalt to the oiled road and instantly my handlebars started to wobble and shake back and forth so hard it took all my strength to just hang on to them it was bad so I slowly applied my back brake till I got down to about 10 mph and it finally went away,but then I notice with the oil and water it literally felt as if I was on ice I had a hill about a half mile long to go up and was only doing about 5 mph up this hill with both feet down and rear tire spinning all the way up the hill.How I kept from going down I will never know.But that wobble scared the living crap out of me.So I guess what I am getting to here is even though I am not a Harley fan,they are way overrated and way overpriced but they are not the only manufacturer of motorcycles that know they have a problem because Kawasaki knew of this problem on the Voyagers for years and never did a thing to correct it.

[Squidley]

This is the lawsuit:

http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2012/04/30/calif-man-sues-bmw-for-persistent-erection/

 

Thats too funny

[CaptainJoe]

If something changes (potholes etc...)that takes weight off of the front wheel combined with an unbalanced condition or slightly turned wheel... STUFF can and will happen...

 

 

And thats on ALL bikes.

 

The pressure in your front forks and the rake of the forks is very, very important...

Edited September 3, 2012 by CaptainJoe

[Whistler]

I've have bought a voyager x11 and i also had a Harley Ultra now i have venture..and first of all we ride cause we love the feeling ... And secound of all any one that wants to go 90 miles an hour or more needs there head looked at . they are a danger to them self and any one else on the road .... ride respondabley and in a safe way and everyone else that rides a cycle won't be looked on as low life.... Ron:cool10:

[Guest tx2sturgis]

We didnt call it the 'harley death wobble'...we just called it a high speed wobble and accepted it as part of the experience.

 

Some riders I knew had experienced it, and I added a 'ride str8' unit to fix the wobble on my ElectraGlide. The wobble was a 'perfect storm' of sorts.

 

It tended to be present under the following conditions:

 

• Touring bike, (FLH) with 3 rubber motor mounts.The FLH's also have a reversed triple tree arrangement. The fork tubes are behind the pivot point.
  
  
• Brand new, OR..older bike with LOTS of miles on it. Brand new meaning the rider hauls ass one day around a corner and not knowing it can happen, he has a surprise tank-slapper. OR...an older bike that has worn motor-mounts and/or an alignment issue, and/or a worn swingarm bushing or neck bearings out of adjustment.
  
• Going around a curve (at high speeds) where the road also has rippled, or rough up-down patches, or tar snakes or longitudinal grooves. (Something that upsets the frame or steering during the lean-over)Other bikes and or conditions could get thrown into the mix, but this seemed to be the prevailing situation when it occured.
  
• From a high speed, applying a LOT of front brake, causing a front-end wobble. This one usually is cured by releasing the brake, but you may hit what you were trying to avoid.
  
  
• Tires that are worn, under-inflated, or have cupping in the tread, or an imbalance due to missing wheel weights.
  
• Improper pressures in the airshocks, forks, or worn out front springs, or even previously blown fork seals and/or worn out rear shocks.
  
  

 

 

I'm not professing to be an expert on this....but I did have it start to happen to me several times during 120,000 miles of riding Harleys. I consider myself to be a reasonably skilled rider, since I have ridden motorcycles, street and dirt, most of my life. During the initial phase of the wobble, its important to NOT add in any quick control inputs. I suspect that some riders instinctively hit the brakes, chopped the throttle, tensed up on the bars, or attempted to adjust the lean angle, which made the wobble worse (or they steered off the curve and into a ditch or guardrail)

 

Remember that during the event, if you are leaned way over in a turn, and the chassis is nearing contact with the pavement, any chassis movement up-down, or sideways could cause a lowside slide if the hard parts touch the ground aggressively. Generally I found that a gentle easing up on the throttle and a VERY gentle application of rear brake ONLY helped ease me out of the situation.

In my experience, there was usually some indication ahead of time that there is a problem...you will feel an oscillation in the bars, and a wobbly feeling in the seat....but if the bars have suddenly begun to do a full tankslapper, you are probably in big trouble at that point.

 

Just about all of the guys I rode with who had ridden at high speeds, heeded that 'feeling', that 'feedback', that the bike was being pushed beyond its design limits. We just took it as a warning to 'SLOW DOWN, Stupid!'...and so we did, and normally didnt get close to that point again. Those old FLH frames were designed back when the motors put out only 55 horsepower and most highway speed limits were 55, so most riders back then never saw 90 mph anyway.

The newer FLHs have a redesigned, stiffer frame and I cant say if it has helped or not. I'm not hanging out with as many FLH riders as I used to, and simply dont know.

 

Just to be fair, there are so many more FLH's running up and down the roads than most other touring bikes, and most riders of those bikes tend to ride more often than say, your average Yamaha V-Star or Honda Shadow owner, so yes, more things can happen, and we hear about them.

 

Most of us simply stayed away from the conditions that made the wobble wore likely to happen. We kept the bike maintained well, including tires, motormounts, alignment, and bearings/bushings, and we respected the design limits of the chassis. And we still loved riding those bikes.

 

 

Edited September 3, 2012 by tx2sturgis

[GeorgeS]

Don't fool yourself, this is not just a Harley problem. Any Motorcycle will do it !!!

My 89 started the wobble around 30K. Fix is usually the torque setting on the

steering yoke.

My father in law, went down back in 1970 on a Honda 450 because of head wobble !!! ( there was no doubt about it !! )

 

If you have never taken your bike out on a straight, and level highway, and checked for " Head Shake " up to around 90 MPH, it something you should add

to your yearly Schedule !!!

 

This condition, is dangerous, and it will kill you, and it applies to ANY, Motorcycle

[Guest tx2sturgis]

Don't fool yourself, this is not just a Harley problem. Any Motorcycle will do it !!!

My 89 started the wobble around 30K. Fix is usually the torque setting on the

steering yoke.

My father in law, went down back in 1970 on a Honda 450 because of head wobble !!! ( there was no doubt about it !! )

 

If you have never taken your bike out on a straight, and level highway, and checked for " Head Shake " up to around 90 MPH, it something you should add

to your yearly Schedule !!!

 

This condition, is dangerous, and it will kill you, and it applies to ANY, Motorcycle

 

Good point. In your test, to check for head shake, wobble, or alignment, the rider simply needs to set the cruise at about 60-80 mph, and then slowly begin to lessen his grip on the bars. I didnt say turn loose all at once! But just slowly relax your grip with both hands evenly. If you start to feel a shake or wobble, well by all means, tighten up your grip, but keep your arms 'fluid'.

 

If you can completely release the bars and the bike remains stable, with little to zero vibration, your bike is probably not likely to have the wobble anytime soon, at least at that speed.

 

 

 

Disclaimer: Most of us have done this, so its nothing new. And IF your bike starts a severe tankslapper, then this post was for information ONLY and was not intended to be used on a bike with a tendency to to that.

 

 

[seeing]

Rode in law enforcement years back when we had both tank shift and then finally foot shift and the wobble that we experienced was at high speeds and then we would brake with foot brake just a little and hit the throttle at same time finally it would come out of it. Back home for a new change of uniform lol and shop at that time said there was a hair line crack in the frame and they would have to strip bike down do find it but it is real let me tell you even back at that time I was a young man and it really scared me. Several officers I knew had same experience so Harley has had this problem for years. I am 69 and this was when I was in my late 20's. Note Harley never has a problem hear them tell it but they do and the last Harley I owned was an 02 Ultra Classic that would just quit never with warning on a hot day. This time when it quit the guy behind us was not paying attention and he ran over us. Wife had to have knee replacement from that wreck and no never a Harley again. On a Yamaha RSV today riding two up and enjoying the ride.

[Trader]

not related to death wobble...but "certain people" who may have been out on a boat might be interested.

 

http://www.nbcnews.com/business/harley-davidson-recalls-some-14-motorcycles-8C11408038