How many carry when on the road.

[Redneck]

Another chart shows gun ownership in comparison to level of education. Apparently, people with more education have less of a need to own guns. Can anybody put a spin on that one?

 

I believe Don hit it pretty close.

If you want spin here is some spin. Once the brain becomes saturated with book knowledge there is less room left for common sense.

 

[Squeeze]

What i said ...

 

 

I believe only in Statistics i fabricated on my own ..... :D :D :rotf:

[Iowa Guy]

Interesting Thread. It got me to wondering so I have been reading up on the laws in various states. Then I went to the local sheriff and put in my application for a permit. Iowa is a May Issue state at the discretion of the individual sheriffs. I see that two counties nearby usually issue but rarely in Jefferson Co where I live. I am a Licensed Mental Health Counselor and frequently work with abuse victims. More than occasionally I receive threats from family members as I advocate change; the last one just last week. "I am going to come in and take care of you" He didn't show but it certainly causes a person to think. Now I have had a ball bat in my office but its reach is limited. I'd be more than willing to take the safety course and stay qualified.

 

I haven't had serious trouble for a long time. Years ago, I had a knife at my throat and a gun aimed in my direction by some outlaw Grim Reapers. I was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. Can't say that it was a very pleasant experience. It could have turned out very different.

 

Hmmm....

[Guest kober]

"Another chart shows gun ownership in comparison to level of education. Apparently, people with more education have less of a need to own guns. Can anybody put a spin on that one?"

 

No spin, just a simple answer:

 

Higher education = higher income.

Higher income = better neighborhood.

Better neighborhood = less crime.

Less crime = less fear of being a victim.

 

Force some of these Yale and Harvard perfessers to leave their gated subdivisions with their armed guards and force them to live in the barrios of LA or Tucson or slums of Chicago, Detroit etc. without their 24hr patrols and alarm systems etc. and watch them become 2nd Amendment advocates real quick.

 

I love our Hollywood hypocrites who think guns should absolutely be outlawed but insist on hiring their own well armed body guards. I guess their lives are just much more important than Joe Sixpacs'.

[hig4s]

"Another chart shows gun ownership in comparison to level of education. Apparently, people with more education have less of a need to own guns. Can anybody put a spin on that one?"

 

No spin, just a simple answer:

 

Higher education = higher income.

Higher income = better neighborhood.

Better neighborhood = less crime.

Less crime = less fear of being a victim.

 

Force some of these Yale and Harvard perfessers to leave their gated subdivisions with their armed guards and force them to live in the barrios of LA or Tucson or slums of Chicago, Detroit etc. without their 24hr patrols and alarm systems etc. and watch them become 2nd Amendment advocates real quick.

 

 

 

I lived less than a half mile from Telegraph and 8mi Rd junction of Detroit for 12 years. My wife grew up in the projects of Louisville KY. Have moved since but never owned a hand gun even when I lived in Detroit. Never felt the need. And the only guns ever waved in my direction that caused me fear were by over zealous LEOs.

While I don't believe in a total gun ban, I am for stricter controls on hand guns. The fact is that for personal protection at home shotgun is much better than a hand gun.

 

And as far as higher education = higher income.. Teachers, including college professors, are the lowest paid profession per # of years education of any profession. Research scientists are next. Neither makes that much money.

 

And a good percentage of the Hollywood rich you disagree with barely made it out of high school. And being rich, having gated mansions and body guards doesn't seem to keep musicians and pro athletes from thinking they have to carry guns and shoot at people. The difference is not the money.

 

If it was the money and neighborhoods, then all politicians would be for the bans, seeing as all of them are rich, live in better or gated areas and have personal body guards. Yet it is about 50/50 split with politicians.

[Redneck]

I lived less than a half mile from Telegraph and 8mi Rd junction of Detroit for 12 years. My wife grew up in the projects of Louisville KY. Have moved since but never owned a hand gun even when I lived in Detroit. Never felt the need. And the only guns ever waved in my direction that caused me fear were by over zealous LEOs.

While I don't believe in a total gun ban, I am for stricter controls on hand guns. The fact is that for personal protection at home shotgun is much better than a hand gun.

 

And as far as higher education = higher income.. Teachers, including college professors, are the lowest paid profession per # of years education of any profession. Research scientists are next. Neither makes that much money.

 

And a good percentage of the Hollywood rich you disagree with barely made it out of high school. And being rich, having gated mansions and body guards doesn't seem to keep musicians and pro athletes from thinking they have to carry guns and shoot at people. The difference is not the money.

 

If it was the money and neighborhoods, then all politicians would be for the bans, seeing as all of them are rich, live in better or gated areas and have personal body guards. Yet it is about 50/50 split with politicians.

What is your reasoning for advocating stricter restrictions on hand guns?

I don't know anybody that looks forward to shooting a person even if they are a threat to there own lives. I have been shooting since I was old enough to hold up a gun. I have been carrying for many years and have been licensed to carry for 10 years I have drawn my weapon 1 time when a gang decided they were going to kill me for being in a public place they said they owned. I never had to point the gun just draw it and the problem was solved. I like guns and shooting of all different kinds I collect guns because I see them as fine pieces of art and examples of genius engineering and craftsmanship. I have a passion for guns just as I have a passion for motorcycles. Having restrictions on gun ownership for law abiding citizens is no different than restricting motorcycle ownership for law abiding citizens motorcycles kill and injure many times more people than guns. Would you also support restrictions on motorcycles , knives , hammers , rocks?

[hig4s]

What is your reasoning for advocating stricter restrictions on hand guns?

 

 

Did you miss the whole Virginia Tech thing? A young person with a history of mental illness went in applied for a gun, passed the back ground check, and killed a bunch of people in a shooting spree. You don't think things should be more strict than that? And the fact is in many states at gun shows selling between private collectors has little or no restrictions..

 

The did a check on the guns confiscated in Washington DC a few years back and over 70% were from Virginia, one of the easiest places to get a gun.

 

We have a guy here at work who on several occasions has mentioned his hand guns.. His nickname is HotHead, he has threatened people with physical violence at work three times in the last few years, and he is on depression medicine, I wonder if he should really be allowed a hand gun?

[86er]

I gotta believe the outcome at Virginia Tech would have

been different had the students been allowed to carry wepons.

 

[Tom]

Same situation as Redneck kind of..I drive a truck all over the place.Truck Drivers and Cops seem to see the lowest form of life out there and A gang came after me in OKC...I drew down on them and they scattered..Just glad I was carrying,I called the cops and they had said alot of drivers had been severely beaten there and robbed..No,I was not at a place I should not have been, I was at a delivery at a grocery warehouse in a parking lot waiting for my appt...I thank God I have the FREEDOM to protect myself,as good as cops are they cant be everywhere all the time. Just my 2 cents.

[Guest kober]

Did you miss the whole Virginia Tech thing? A young person with a history of mental illness went in applied for a gun, passed the back ground check, and killed a bunch of people in a shooting spree.

 

In a perfect world he would have been unable to lay his hands on a gun. In a perfect world old people would be unable to kill and maim a couple dozen people with their car when they mistake the gas pedal for the brakes. In a perfect world drunk drivers wouldn't kill 25,000 people every year. If we gave up all our rights and responsibilities based what a few misfits do we would all be living in padded rubber rooms.

 

I think it comes down to freedom of choice. In our country, rightly or wrongly, the government is still forced constitutionally to trust its citizens with the means to defend themselves. Who knows for how long this will last? The day will come when such freedoms will have dissapeared and The State will be totally responsible for it's children, from cradle to grave.

 

Responsibilities and rights go hand in hand. Once citizens turn over all responsibility to their government they will simultaneously have turned over their rights also. Much of the world today is well on it's way to this end.

 

As long as it still legal to do so I will own firearms. Once we too loose that right - well, that might just be reason enough to add to my collection.

[flb_78]

Did you miss the whole Virginia Tech thing? A young person with a history of mental illness went in applied for a gun, passed the back ground check, and killed a bunch of people in a shooting spree.

 

Virginia Tech's blood is on the hand of the Faculty that runs that place. It doesn't matter if he had a history of mental illness with the school if the school doesn't report it to the authorities. Instead, they were worried about their image and not the student's safety. He had been turned in for stalking by many girls, yet the school chose to handle it internally and miserably failed. He should of been turned into the police instead where he then would of had a public record of mental problems and it would of came up on the NCIS check and he would of been denied the sale of the gun. The Dealer did nothing wrong, the laws were not wrong, THE SCHOOL WAS WRONG FOR BEING WORRIED ABOUT THEIR IMAGE AND NOT REPORTING HIM!!!!

[saddlebum]

Hey Stan would you go hunting with a 9mm browning.? or an AK47..? No, these are the weapons used by the gangs to kill each other and innocent bystanders.. I believe these are the weapons "they" are trying to eliminate from the streets, not your 30/30, 12 gauge shotgun, or any other rifle for the recreation hunter...

IF THIS IS TTRUE WHY IS IT EVERYTIME THERE IS A GUN RELATED CRIME THEY PASS MORE GUN CONTROL LAWS ON RESPONSIBLE GUN OWNERS WHO DO NOT OWN 9MM OR AK47 ETC.

THERE ARE LAWS AND ALWAYS HAVE BEEN THAT SAY IT IS UNLAWFULL TO COMMIT ASSUALT OR MURDER REGARDLESS OF THE WEAPON USED, AND OUR GOVERNMENT SIMPLY NEEDS TO ENFORCE THESE LAWS AND NOT BE AFRAID TO EXACT PROPER HARSH PUNISHMENT ON THOSE WHO COMMIT SUCH CRIMES. CURRANT GUN CONTROL ONLY SERVES TO LET THE WEAK MINDED BELIEVE THE GOVERNMENT IS DOING SOMETHING IN OTHER WORDS A SMOKE SCREEN. SINCE GUN CONTROL HAS BEEN IMPLEMENTED GUN RELATED CRIMES HAVE ACTUALLY INCREASED. YOU CAN ADD ALL THE JUNK YARD DOGS TO A COMPOUND YOU WANT BUT IF YOU PUT MUZZELS ON THEM WHAT GOOD IS IT. WELCOME TO CANADA

 

 

WHEN GUNS ARE OUTLAWED ONLY OUTLAWS WILL HAVE GUNS

[hig4s]

In a perfect world he would have been unable to lay his hands on a gun. In a perfect world old people would be unable to kill and maim a couple dozen people with their car when they mistake the gas pedal for the brakes. In a perfect world drunk drivers wouldn't kill 25,000 people every year. If we gave up all our rights and responsibilities based what a few misfits do we would all be living in padded rubber rooms.

 

I think it comes down to freedom of choice. In our country, rightly or wrongly, the government is still forced constitutionally to trust its citizens with the means to defend themselves. Who knows for how long this will last? The day will come when such freedoms will have disappeared and The State will be totally responsible for it's children, from cradle to grave.

 

Responsibilities and rights go hand in hand. Once citizens turn over all responsibility to their government they will simultaneously have turned over their rights also. Much of the world today is well on it's way to this end.

 

As long as it still legal to do so I will own firearms. Once we too loose that right - well, that might just be reason enough to add to my collection.

 

 

Not one of your statements there is in question. But that doesn't mean everyone should be allowed to do whatever they want whenever they want. If that was the case, why bother with laws at all. But the inconsistencies, the ridiculous hypocrisy, and the uncontrolled bureaucracy of the gun control issue is too much. One side fights the smallest change no matter how good it would be and the other just tries to ban everything. And in the meantime anyone that wants a gun can get one. The controls in place are unbelievably easy to get around. I could get a handgun, legally, without a background check anytime if I wanted. I wouldn't legally be allowed to carry, but once someone had a gun, does that stop them?

[BEER30]

I think I have read all the post , so I will say this if it hasn't already been said . "Guns do not kill , it's the person whom pulls the trigger that kills "!

We have so many laws on the books now days , a common person is somewhat actually confused . We don't need new laws , we just need to enforce the laws we have and punish the law breakers to the fullest extent to show the law-breakers that we law-biding citizen means business and regain the respect where it is needed . All these "SHEEPLES" whom think taking the guns out of the hands of honest people , need to rethink . Because if killing is a crime , these "SHEEPLES" are killing me with their ridicules beliefs ! But everyone has the right to speak out what they think , and I respect that . But it is a good debate !

 

BEER30

[Guest kober]

Not one of your statements there is in question. But that doesn't mean everyone should be allowed to do whatever they want whenever they want. If that was the case, why bother with laws at all. But the inconsistencies, the ridiculous hypocrisy, and the uncontrolled bureaucracy of the gun control issue is too much. One side fights the smallest change no matter how good it would be and the other just tries to ban everything. And in the meantime anyone that wants a gun can get one. The controls in place are unbelievably easy to get around. I could get a handgun, legally, without a background check anytime if I wanted. I wouldn't legally be allowed to carry, but once someone had a gun, does that stop them?

 

All but 2 states in our union have open carry laws, some more restrictive than others.

 

I agree 100% that we need to start enforcing the laws we already have before adding to them.

 

Our schools are able and willing to enforce a zero tolerance attitude and kick 6 year old kids out of school for hugging each other or drawing a picture of a gun but drunk drivers get to kill 20,000 people every year and maim 250,000 people every year and life goes on as usual.

 

Someone in my very extended family just got her 2nd extreme DUI and still has her license. She spent one night in jail (on a weekend to make it more convenient for her) and it cost her about $2,000 in attorney fees and for 90 days she could only drive to go shopping or to church or work. Some punishment. If and when she finally ends up hurting someone I'll be expected to forgive and feel sorry for her. Yea, right.

 

Meanwhile she happens to be one of those who think I'm some sort of gun nut because I hunt and shoot clays etc. She hates the fact that I'm allowed to carry a weapon whenever I want and buy all the guns and ammo I want. Go figure.

[hig4s]

All but 2 states in our union have open carry laws, some more restrictive than others.

 

 

In 2001

"Sen. John McCain says he will force Senate consideration of a controversial gun control measure early next year bolstered by a newly powerful argument: Foreign terrorists have exploited a loophole to buy weapons at gun shows while bypassing federal background checks."

 

full article. http://www.usatoday.com/news/sept11/2001/11/27/guns.htm

 

after that for 6 years, nothing,,

now.

In January 2007, Representatives Mike Castle (R-DE), Christopher Shays (R-CT), and Mark Kirk (R-IL) introduced the “Gun Show Loophole Closing Act of 2007” (H.R. 96). The bill would require background checks on the sale of all firearms at gun shows, and increase penalties for record keeping and criminal background check violations. The bill has yet to be considered in committee.

Additionally, Senator Joseph Biden (D-DE) has introduced S. 2237, the “Crime Control and Prevention Act of 2007,” which would require background checks on sale of all firearms at gun shows.

In August 2007, the Virginia Tech Review Panel issued their final report which recommended that the "Gun Show Loophole" be closed in Virginia, stating “In an age of widespread information technology, it should not be too difficult for anyone, including private sellers, to contact the Virginia Firearms Transaction Program for a background check that usually only takes minutes before transferring a firearm”.

[flb_78]

There are no "gun show loopholes" .

 

Have you ever been to a gun show? They are dealers selling to people and to purchase a firearm, they have to do a background check. My last gun was bought at a gun show and I had to go through a background check. I don't know where all these gun shows are that allow dealers to sell to anybody with the NCIS check.

 

This is the 2nd time you've mentioned Virginia Tech and this time it has absolutely ZERO relevance. He did not buy his guns from a gun show, he bought them through a dealer and he passed the NCIS background check because Virginia Techs counselors and president did not want to turn him in because they did not wish to tarnish their reputation.

 

I don't know what your fascination is with the Virginia Tech shooting is. It has nothing to do with this topic.

[Guest kober]

I have bad news for them. I can open my newspaper right now and find all sorts of guns for sale by private owners such as myself. If I chose to sell my entire collection there would be no background check or record keeping requirement.

[hig4s]

There are no "gun show loopholes" .

 

Have you ever been to a gun show? They are dealers selling to people and to purchase a firearm, they have to do a background check. My last gun was bought at a gun show and I had to go through a background check. I don't know where all these gun shows are that allow dealers to sell to anybody with the NCIS check.

 

This is the 2nd time you've mentioned Virginia Tech and this time it has absolutely ZERO relevance. He did not buy his guns from a gun show, he bought them through a dealer and he passed the NCIS background check because Virginia Techs counselors and president did not want to turn him in because they did not wish to tarnish their reputation.

 

I don't know what your fascination is with the Virginia Tech shooting is. It has nothing to do with this topic.

 

I didn't mention Virgina Tech again. I just listed the people that are now trying to get the "Gun Show Loophole" taken care of.. And the Virgina Tech Review board happens to be one of them..

 

And yes, there technically no "gun show loophole" but it is still called that.. and it is still a problem.. As is anyone selling handguns to anyone without a background check. But that is legal.

[CrazyHorse]

Hey Stan would you go hunting with a 9mm browning.? or an AK47..? No, these are the weapons used by the gangs to kill each other and innocent bystanders.. I believe these are the weapons "they" are trying to eliminate from the streets, not your 30/30, 12 gauge shotgun, or any other rifle for the recreation hunter...

 

You guys that are afraid of AK47's etc. Hunting rifles are more accurate and more powerful. I would be more scared of a guy with a scoped 30.06 caliber rifle who could pick me off like a sniper hiding in the bushes from 200 meters then a guy with a AK47. Like the LA bank robbery a few years ago they used AK's and HK G3 which were illegally modified to full auto. Those two guys fired 1100 rounds and hit 11 people not to good odds of being hit scary, sure, but you contrast that with the DC sniper who used a scoped rifle (AR15) shot and killed 10, wounded 3 critically each with one well placed round like a hunting rifle would. I would think about that for those of you "hunting guns" are the only ok guns guys. Just think how this nation would be in gripped in fear if several dc sniper type terrorists operating in several areas of the country at the same time. Your hunting guns will now be the "sniper" weapons people will want to confiscate.

[Condor]

Even though the original intent of this thread wasn't what has developed, I think it's been great so far, with folks offering up their opinions, and stories, and I hope it stays that way. There are so many facets of the term 'gun control' that there will always be borderline disagreements as opinions overlap. I hope the disagreements don't cause a 'for and against' atmosphere to develop, and multiple 'yes but' posts to start. Respect for another's opinion, even if you don't agree, creates a debate. Nit picking starts arguments. My 2¢

[Guest Popeye]

This is an education as to how many touring riders carry.

I never thought there would be so many.

 

The fact that so many do carry must be a real drag for the bad guys.

If it's legal to carry where you happen to be, the violent criminals are at an extreme disadvantage.

 

To me, it has always seemed silly to pass laws that only apply to law-breakers.

 

I was born & raised in Detroit, with strict 'gun control', but I still had to respond to the daily 'drive-bys' as a cop.

 

Chicago, NYC, LA, etc., have super strict gun control...and we ALL see how silly that is.

 

Many want to disarm the law-abiding.....?? That's just weird.

[spear]

Picked this up on another forum so I thought I'd inject a little light humour into the thread.

 

Believed to be fact - as reported on Fox News...

Any knowledge of this one?

 

Some "dirtbag" in Polk County Florida who got pulled over in a routine traffic stop ended up "executing" the deputy who stopped him. The deputy was shot 8 times, including once behind his right ear at close range.

Another deputy was wounded and a police dog killed. A statewide manhunt ensued.

The offender was found hiding in a wooded area with his gun. SWAT team officers fired 110 rounds and hit the guy 68 times.

Now here's the question:

Naturally, the media asked why they shot him 68 times. Polk County Sheriff Grady Judd, told the Orlando Sentinel:

 

"That's all the bullets we had!" :no-no-no: :rotf:

[spear]

A gunman killed five people after opening fire at City Hall in the St. Louis suburb of Kirkwood on Thursday night, according to media reports.

The St Louis Post-Dispatch reported the shooter killed a police officer outside City Hall and then entered the building and shot and killed another officer.

"He shot three other people who were attending the council meeting. They also are deceased," the newspaper quoted officer Tracy Panus as saying.

The paper also quoted police as saying they later killed the gunman.

 

- Reuters

 

It's still happening, I see!

[Condor]

A gunman killed five people after opening fire at City Hall in the St. Louis suburb of Kirkwood on Thursday night, according to media reports.

The St Louis Post-Dispatch reported the shooter killed a police officer outside City Hall and then entered the building and shot and killed another officer.

"He shot three other people who were attending the council meeting. They also are deceased," the newspaper quoted officer Tracy Panus as saying.

The paper also quoted police as saying they later killed the gunman.

 

- Reuters

 

It's still happening, I see!

 

Yep, only not as many as auto accident deaths..... It's just more sensational. We're kinda used to the highway slaughter, and I don't think you'll be seeing cars outlawed any time soon....... You carry when you ride?