Soliciting Observatrions: 1st Gen vs. 2nd Gen

[csherer]

I have an 83 Royale & a 2000 RSV MM. I owned an 81 Venture for about 16 years and then sold it at the instance of my wife. (wish I still had it). I"ve had my 83 for about 7 yrs and my RSV MM for 2yrs. Ride them both but have ridden my 83 on most of my long distance trips. I decided to change up my routine this year and rode the RSV to Sturgis for the first time. After completing my trip, I made several observations. I'm curious what others have noticed in their own experiences.

 

First: 83 is nimble, agile, corners easilty with great balance; has quite a bit of zip and is extremely comfortable for the long ride. In contrast the RSV is awkward, difficult to corner, seems not just top heavy but front end heavy, in fact, the front end shimmies at times particularly at lower speeds on the way to HWy speeds. I took my left hand off the bar for a second & the front end began to shake so bad it spilled coffee all over the bike that was secured in my mounded beverage holder. Overall ride on the 83 is much smoother and the bikes handles way better then the 2000 RSV.

 

Other differences: 83 has voltmeter, tach, full set of guages, on-board compressor for automatic ride leveling system; 2000 doesn't have any of these.

 

Only difference I saw where the RSV out performed the 83 was in the sound system. Much better in the 2000 with the addition of the rear speakers; when listening to the speakers and not the headset, it has a quadraphonic sound quality.

 

Earlier this spring I mentioned to the shop foreman, that I enjoyed riding the 83 Royale over the 2000 RSV. They didn't have a lot of background on Ventures & didn't believe me until they had worked on both and taken both for test rides. After that, they agreed that the 83 was a much smoother & better handling bike & couldn't believe all the amenities that the 83 came stock with over the present RSVs. The 83 really was ahead of it's time.

 

IMO, the only way to improve on the existing RSV is to make it more commensurate with the 1st Gens!

 

Just curious what others may think.

[Trader]

 

 

I'll bring the popcorn!

[Dragonslayer]

 

 

I'll bring the popcorn!

Pretty much my thoughts as well. You may be interested in reading through this thread posted last week on the same subject.

http://venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=72602

[XV1100SE]

I've never owned or ridden a 1st Gen but....

 

...

First: 83 is nimble, agile, corners easilty with great balance; has quite a bit of zip and is extremely comfortable for the long ride. In contrast the RSV is awkward, difficult to corner, seems not just top heavy but front end heavy, in fact, the front end shimmies at times particularly at lower speeds on the way to HWy speeds. I took my left hand off the bar for a second & the front end began to shake so bad it spilled coffee all over the bike that was secured in my mounded beverage holder. Overall ride on the 83 is much smoother and the bikes handles way better then the 2000 RSV.

 

Interesting... lot of 1st Gen'ers that try a 2nd Gen usually comment about how comfortable the 2nd Gen is on long rides.

 

On the RSV, I tend to find mine to be rear heavy and not top heavy since I'm used to it. Watch how you describe the front end. You say it is front end heavy but that it "shimmies". Two things to correct the front end is to watch your tire pressures (36 front is very important) and to make sure your steering head is properly tightened.

 

My front tire was recently down to 34 1/2lbs and it felt light, like it wanted to wander in turns. Brought it up to 36, 40lbs rear, 3lbs front shocks, 20lbs rear shock and it handles great ! Stays planted in turns and very responsive to input.

 

With the front end shake, your steering head is loose (or you've got really bad tires). There is a post in the 2nd Gen tech section on testing for looseness and tightening it. At one time I found that if I let go of the handle bars and coasted, when it got below 60km/hr it would almost turn into a tank slapper. Adjusted the steering head and the bike stays straight as an arrow down to almost a stop (or as slow as I can go and balance).

 

If your bike isn't running smooth and nimble.... you need to adjust your bike: check tires (not older than 6-7 years old no matter the mileage and with proper air pressure); steering head not loose; rear shock holding air and not failed; front shocks even on pressure (no balance valve like on 1st Gen).

 

Other differences: 83 has voltmeter, tach, full set of guages, on-board compressor for automatic ride leveling system; 2000 doesn't have any of these.

 

A tach on the 2nd Gen would be nice but I shift by engine sound. Only time I need a tach is to check the idle speed when doing a carb synch.

 

Voltmeter... I don't feel it is a necessity. Only time needed is when trouble shooting. Doesn't give you much advance warning of a charging problem... shows when there is a problem.

 

On-board compressor... I don't adjust my shocks everytime I ride and have it set to a happy medium. Rear shock I try to load for 10% of passenger weight/load but usually only adjust this on longer runs (for just me I'll set the rear shock to 20psi, with Nancy I'll add 12psi, more for trailer tongue weight when required). Do 1st Gen'ers adjust their shocks everytime they go for a ride? Probably not.

 

...Only difference I saw where the RSV out performed the 83 was in the sound system. Much better in the 2000 with the addition of the rear speakers; when listening to the speakers and not the headset, it has a quadraphonic sound quality.

 

Don't know about 1st Gen speakers but better speakers on the 2nd Gen would be nice. Several people have tried upgrading them.

 

... they agreed that the 83 was a much smoother & better handling bike & couldn't believe all the amenities that the 83 came stock with over the present RSVs. The 83 really was ahead of it's time.

 

Still think you need to properly set up the 2nd Gen. When was the last time you did a carb synch or run SeaFoam thru it (if you ride the 1st Gen most of the time and let the 2nd Gen sit in the garage, SeaFoam will probably help). Your handling problems come down to tires (age, wear, and pressure), properly adjusted pressure in shocks, and carbs needing to be synched.

 

No bashing of the 1st Gen here. I think you are right in that it was ahead of its time. In some ways the 1st Gen (if it were new) would be better than the 2nd Gen, but the 2nd Gen is better than the 1st Gen in others.

 

Head to head with both bikes running properly (and brand new) ... think it will be a toss-up on which one is better. Each one has its own characteristics and personal preference impacts choice (styling for example).

[XV1100SE]

I'll bring the popcorn!

 

This is always an interesting topic. As you can see, I kept my response civil (was typing while you posted your comment).

 

If the 2nd Gen he has is handling as poorly as he says it is, then I don't think anyone on here will disagree with me that there are things he needs to adjust/fix.

 

Lets not get into negative comparisons of the two Gens. From what the OP says.... I don't think his 2nd Gen is a safe ride until he does some maintenance. Lets try to help him fix the issues stated. The comparison is less important.

 

Let him fix his 2nd Gen.... then redo the comparison.

[bongobobny]

I agree with your observations, but also agree with all the comments that your front end needs fixing!!! If anything, my 2nd gen was more stable for shimmy than my stock 1st gen was. New tires and wheel bearings along with a super brace fixed up my 1st gen.

 

Check the air pressure in both front shocks. Check the front tire for cupping. Check the neck bearings for proper tightness...

[BoomerCPO]

Years ago I used to make fun of the 1st Genners here on the Forum....After trying to keep up with Kbran while doing the "Bogalusa Twisties" I learned to respect them!

Boomer....who sez even de pygmies can't catch a 1st Gen....unless dey are stopped at a Dairy Queen.

[etcswjoe]

I have owned both and there are such different bikes it's really hard to compare.

 

 

Any updates on the control issues?

[GeorgeS]

Get it fixed !! Pronto, this condition is Extremely Dangerous!!!!!!!!!!

 

Torque on the Steering head Nut, needs to be adjusted !!! I personally know folks who have gone down on various bikes because of this situation. ( My father in law, for one, )

[Squidley]

FWIW...

 

I have had 5 1st gens and 3 2nd gens, if you have a shimmy in the 2nd gen something is wrong and it needs to be fixed. There is a learning curve when going from a 1st gen to a 2nd. I have put better than 50K on both gens, hands down for me the G2 is a much more comfortable ride for myself and my wife.

 

As far as nimble, yes the 1st gen is a bit better in the twisties, but I can guarantee you that a 1st gen will not walk away from a G2 with someone that knows how to ride it. Personally my knees dont like the petal position with my feet under me on the 1st gens anymore. I am hurting more on longer rides on the 1st gen than I ever have been on the G2.

 

They are 2 TOTALLY different machines with the only thing in common is the V4 powerplant. They are both great machines, but the next one I will own is going to be another G2 when I get my funds in order....

[dingy]

Years ago I used to make fun of the 1st Genners here on the Forum....After trying to keep up with Kbran while doing the "Bogalusa Twisties" I learned to respect them!

 

Boomer....who sez even de pygmies can't catch a 1st Gen....unless dey are stopped at a Dairy Queen.

 

It certainly is a cold day in Hell right now.

 

 

Gary

[csherer]

Thanks for everyone's comments. I'll check the tires, fork pressure & steering head. I actually picked the bike up from the shop on a Sunday and left for Sturgis the next day. I had the rear mono shock replaced so assumed all was well with the bike. The shop did notice issues with the front end earlier with the spring tune up but couldn't find an issue. I'll bring your observations to the table to for trouble shooting.

 

I actually run more PSI in the shocks because I pull a trailer, so on th 83, yes, I change the air pressure in he leveling system more often than not to adjust for the ride/load.

 

Thanks again for all the comments.

[XV1100SE]

Sorry Charles (OP). I'm sure this isn't the type of comments you were expecting, but definitely something is wrong with your 2nd Gen that needs to be fixed. Hope you follow the advice in this thread before you take your next ride on the 2nd Gen.

 

Checking and tightening steering head - with the bike on a lift..."the front would fall to one side or the other without me even touching it unless I had it perfectly centered. That is too loose. The front should stay where you have it and if you gently push it one way or the other...it should gently come to a stop but not be binding or hard to push. If you gently push the bars so that it bounces off the stops, it should rebound gently and stop...maybe even ever so slightly oscillate back just a tiny bit but if it oscillates back and forth 2 or 3 times, it is definitely too loose." For me, I tightened mine until it would hold in one position. Some say that is still too loose but I've been happy since.

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=511

 

Read V7Goose's post in http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=62980 as well.

 

If you aren't sure about the age of your tires....

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=24465

This was posted by etcswjoe in http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=64928

Look for the letters DOT. (this means department of transportation and any tire that runs on the street must have one)

DOT will only be on one side of the tire .

After DOT there will be an alpha-numeric sequence approximately 10-12 characters long.

The last four digits of this sequence is the date.

It will be stamped....may be in an oval.

Example: 3409.....will be the 34th week of 2009

 

In case you find a tire with 3 digits, it means the tire was made prior to 2000.

Starting with the year 2000 four digits are now used..

 

Rear shock - read post 22 by LilBeaver in http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=51837

[Stanman]

Well, since this subject has been brought up, I will throw in my personal opinion/experience. Let me add at this point I am not simply bashing or taking a cheap shot at the 2nd Gen or those who own them. I own a 1st Gen and had the chance to sit on a Gen 2 recently. Now its no secret that I don't like the "Harley" looks of a Gen 2, but thought the seat looked very comfy. I can honestly say that those looks are deceiving, I found the seat back pushes me forward while the front that turns up to conform to the fuel tank does a fantastic job of trying to push the family jewels back inside the body. I sat on it for less than a minute and decided that will be the last time I sit on a 2nd Gen. I could not see riding that machine for 10 minutes let alone all day. The only thing this bike has going for it is the V4 engine. I realize that there is a lot of members that prefer the 2nd Gen over the earlier model and that is a personal choice. Good for you, I'm glad you have a machine you love as much as I love my '86, but if and when I wish to get a newer bike than a 1st Gen, I must say I will take a much closer look at a Goldwing.

[BoomerCPO]

It certainly is a cold day in Hell right now.

 

 

Gary

 

It prolly is now dat you mention it....

Boomer....who sez he could use a bit of dat "cooler" weather here in Loozeeanner right now...

 

Note: I have never ridden a 1st Gen because I KNOW that I would push the envelope while on it...and that would prolly cost me my life. I am extremely confident and happy with my 2nd Gen thanks to my years of riding experience and the 65K I have put on my 06.

Bottom line for me is simple: Ride WHATEVER BIKE you want because it really is all about being on 2 wheels regardless of what you ride.

[XV1100SE]

... I sat on it for less than a minute and decided that will be the last time I sit on a 2nd Gen...

 

Sorry... sitting on a bike for "less than a minute" isn't a good way to come to a conclusive decision. Take it for a test ride for a couple hours, feet on the floor boards, spouse on the back.... then make a decision.

 

When you met your spouse... did you decide in the first minute that you would marry her? Do you buy your cars that quickly ... sales people must have an easy time with you !

 

Not trying to give you grief. Just saying sitting on the bike stationary is not way to form an opinion.

[bongobobny]

Both are excellent bikes but very different from each other except for the cassette deck...

[dacheedah]

Bongo, I would differ on the cassette decks, on the first gen it's far easier to use and in a better location. On the second gen they put it where only gauges should go. . .

[bongobobny]

True!! I just meant they both have them!!!

[bongobobny]

P.S. Just think of an AM radio on the dash of a 57 Ford...

[XV1100SE]

Bongo, I would differ on the cassette decks, on the first gen it's far easier to use and in a better location. On the second gen they put it where only gauges should go. . .

 

Yes, but at least they hid it !

[Rick Haywood]

I Love my RSV MM Edition. By the way did I tell you I love my 2nd gen:thumbsup2:

[GeorgeS]

Well, bought the new 08 RSTD. Took off for Los Angeles, the seat was Wonderfull!! untill about 3 PM on the Second day of the trip. ( about 750 miles )

 

At that point I realized that the seat will have to be replaced. And in most case's the stock seat on ANY, new bike for the Average Rider, is going to be a piece of junk !!

 

After 10 days, " On the Road ", and about 2 weeks later, my rear was still hurting !!

 

So Much, for the seat that felt wonderfull for the First 750 Miles !!!

 

ie: Go see, the " Russell Day Long " folks, or the " Corbin " folks . And even after all that you might still be doing modifications to your seat, --------- :stirthepot:

[jaymacdoo]

i have 5000kms on my 2012 RSV and as soon as the wife got on i can feel a slight shake at slow speed. My dealer has a beat up 1st gen someone left there 2 years ago and he cant find the guy . Do i need to buy that one too haha?

[playboy]

i have 5000kms on my 2012 RSV and as soon as the wife got on i can feel a slight shake at slow speed. My dealer has a beat up 1st gen someone left there 2 years ago and he cant find the guy . Do i need to buy that one too haha?

 

What are you doing to make her nervous better check your tire pressures max them out ( per mfg rating ) for two up riding.