Block plate design.....FAIL!

[jimmyenglish]

Hi guys, so I'm smoke testing my prog springs, R1 rotors, EBC HH's front and rear, new rear EBC. I thought I'd follow everyone's lead and ditch the power robbing AD's. I'd talked to Skydoc and I know he's busy now so I thought I'd fashion a couple of my own.

 

Cut out some steel and lined the opening with gasket maker. Sat overnight. Loaded up prog springs and 13.5oz 10wt each leg tightened everything up. Dropped off center stand and SPLAT! I was wearing at least $6 of my $10 fork oil. Blasted out from the block plates. I had those things cranked down! I should have taken a picture so I could nominate myself for "Worst Bel-Ray Rep Of The Year." Even worse after I rode 8 miles. I'm starting to assume the o rings are necessary? I hate to tote the AD's around just to act as a cover

 

Has anybody else made any? What's the key? Thanks!

 

(I know this is pretty ugly but I'm kinda in a hurry as I'm going to Germany next year and am not sure what kind of space I'm going to have.)

[Squidley]

Yeah...the orings are necessary, from the front look of that plate, I would say that it's got a lot of pitting on it. You want plates as smooth as glass and of a reasonable thickness, 1/4" or a bit better. Stainless is what I would put on it myself if I were to make a set....or just buy a set from Earl

[jimmyenglish]

That's the bad side of the plate. The other side is actually glass smooth. Certainly not 1/4" thick though and no o ring. It has a noring. Haha. Not funny as I'm blasting down the hwy, oddly licking my lips thinking it's sprinkling. My glasses are all speckled. Taste's weird.

 

"There goes the Village Idiot," my neighbors think as I go by. Oh well, somebody has to do it. I pondered for a sec if it was too thin. Ugh. Mission Abort.

 

Thanks for writing! I'll check into alternatives. Oddly enough, today I rode probably 20 miles through bad urban roads, hills and some light hwy. I drained the rest of the oil out last night and aside from the squeaking of the springs, It rode nice. Very firm.

 

Cheers!

[Snaggletooth]

Thank God I'm not alone in this world after all. I thought it was just me that did things like that.

 

I did the same thing back when I did my second rebuild on the MKI forks a few years back. Made my own plates out of 3/8 steel plate and polished the heck out of them so they would be smooth. Even made a lil place for the o-ring to seat (I hoped).

 

Well much like you I was stunned when the oil ran right out on the ground. So much for straight, flat, smooth and strong. I think my failure was not getting the o-rings spot on an malformed them when I tightened the plates down.

 

But I ordered a set from Earl the next week and when I did the rebuild for the MKII forks I ordered a set for them to.

 

The key to a sucessfull block off plate is to have Earl make em for ya. Worked for me.

 

 

Mike

[Flyinfool]

I was just going to order a set from Earl, But now you guys are starting to make it sound like a challenge.....

[jimmyenglish]

Yeah, I want too as well. I figured it's just a little plate and weld delve into my fabrication side. Obviously it was a hard landing. Face first. EPIC FAIL!

[KIC]

Yeah, I want too as well. I figured it's just a little plate and weld delve into my fabrication side. Obviously it was a hard landing. Face first. EPIC FAIL!

 

Yea...but at least you tried.... gave us all a laugh, and now you can move on while one of us pulls the next laughable stunt...

[Snaggletooth]

Could have been worse ya know.

[jimmyenglish]

True that. Especially when I got home and noticed the NEW tire was covered in oil. Oh man. The E3's are great though and R1's huge diff. Whiplash inducing stopping power! I tried it out good on some of these insane hillsides in Tacoma.

 

It's so much more like a regular bike now (minus the rolling, kinetic ad for Bel-Ray. Thanks guys! Works well as a moisturizer too).

[SaltyDog]

I have a 1983 with the hydraulic antidives and in 2010 I removed the hydraulic piston on top and made a manual adjuster. This gave two benefits, first,it let me remove the hydraulic delay/loss to the front brake actuation and second,it allows me to still have a adjustable compression valve on the front fork dampers. I can screw in the adjustment and increase the compression damping just like when the hydraulic system shifted it during braking in the stock system. This manual adjustment is full time so I can stiffen up the front fork compression when I want to. Not hard to do and it avoided having to deal with the fluid pressure and possible leakage that the block off plate has to contend with.

[jimmyenglish]

That's a trick idea Salty. However, since I'm ignorant to much of this, what is the difference between having the EAD thing whatever it is, air suspension combined with [insert preferred oil weight] and that ? How would one dial in all 3?

[SaltyDog]

My setup allows me to adjust the compression action of the front forks instantly with the turn of the adjusting screw. I could drain the fork oil and add lighter or heavier oil to change the compression AND rebound together. I could add air to the forks and increase the compression (spring) rate and the electric antidives (i have hydraulic, since I have a 1983 model) will only stiffen the compression damping during braking when the solenoid is energized by the brake signal. This is a noticable electrical draw I hear but have not had to deal with. My hydraulic actuated antidives just steal brake fluid from the initial brake application and delay brake actuation.

 

So my adjusting plate doesn't affect the spring rate (I have Progressive springs installed), it doesn't affect the rebound rate and it can be easily changed to suit my load or riding conditions. Plus it can be returned to stock very easily without draining the fork oil.

 

Just my way of dealing with the OEM antidive situation without too much hassle....

[dingy]

Having cut open several sets of forks & anti-dive valves, it is my humble opinion that the anti dives are very slightly better than worthless.

 

I do not see anyway from a mechanical point of view where the AD's can have any influence on the shock dampening at anywhere but the last 3/4" of travel.

 

Below is a CAD drawing I did which represents an 83-85 system. Fork is shown at 1 1/2" from bottoming and another at 1/4" from bottom. Note the two ports on the AD valve that breach the inner fork wall. Until the lower shock bushing passes the upper port hole, the 2 ports are connected to the same cavity, thus, no effect.

 

I do think the AD's will prevent a hard bottom out scenario, but not much else.

 

Doing CAD work like this is what I have done since early 80's, so I think I got it fairly close. 2 things in pictures below is bottom screw is shown as left hand thread incorrectly, and I don't think wave washers are shown.

 

Gary

 

http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af193/gdingy101/ForkTubeat11-2inch.jpg

 

http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af193/gdingy101/ForkTubeat1-4inch.jpg

[johnnydemonic]

Any reason you couldn't simply tap the two holes and thread a couple short bolts in with some thread sealant?

[dingy]

Any reason you couldn't simply tap the two holes and thread a couple short bolts in with some thread sealant?

That might work.

 

I would drill the clearance hole out as small as possible for whatever tap you use. Machinist handbook will have a range. Smaller tap will mean more thread engagement & possibly better sealing chance.

 

I can get you tap drill size if you decide to go that route.

 

Gary

[johnnydemonic]

I can get you tap drill size if you decide to go that route.

 

Gary

 

That would be great, I would appreciate that.

 

 

I have an "83", I was going to just leave the antidives on there and disconnect them from hydraulic pressure, but "dead weight" bothers me, so that was my solution.

 

The only real problem I forsee is getting aluminum shavings into the forks, but I have had great luck coating a tap with heavy grease first to capture the shavings.

 

Sorry to the O.P. for halfway hijacking this thread, but if you are looking for a cheap and easy way to block off the a.d. ports, maybe this will appeal, you could even get some bolts with cool looking heads, like maybe stainless button head allens, or something similar.

[skydoc_17]

First Off,

I still have a few sets of the MKI Block Off Plates made up! Here is the link:

http://www.venturerider.org/classifieds/showproduct.php?product=3777&title=first-genmki-vr-anti-dive-s-sblock-off-plates-21&cat=22

 

Second Off, Jimmyenglish, in your pic, your rotor looks like a MKI Rotor. Do you need Block Off plates for an 83' to 85' VR?

I apologize for the delay, I am in the process of moving to a new home, with a much bigger shop, and have not completed the move yet.

Earl

[Yamamike]

Could have been worse ya know.

 

Ooooh! Bet that left a mark!!

[dingy]

That would be great, I would appreciate that.

 

 

I have an "83", I was going to just leave the antidives on there and disconnect them from hydraulic pressure, but "dead weight" bothers me, so that was my solution.

 

The only real problem I forsee is getting aluminum shavings into the forks, but I have had great luck coating a tap with heavy grease first to capture the shavings.

 

Sorry to the O.P. for halfway hijacking this thread, but if you are looking for a cheap and easy way to block off the a.d. ports, maybe this will appeal, you could even get some bolts with cool looking heads, like maybe stainless button head allens, or something similar.

 

Looks like you may be in luck. I have two different lower fork sections I checked & both have a hole size of 0.430"

 

The tap drill size for a 1/2-20 thread is 0.4351" so I think this would be doable.

 

Just for the lawyer thing, I am supplying helpful info only and not endorsing any modifications not supplied by Yamaha. Now with that bit of nasty business out of the way, let us know how your adventure turns out.

 

Gary

[johnnydemonic]

Nice. I have that tap in my toolbox.

That is great news, cause I am confident I can tap the holes "in situ" without getting any cuttings into the forks, but if I had to drill the holes out, I think it would be a disassembly situation.