1996 RSTD ignition problem

[madmaxx2011]

when I push the start button down the lights draw down and it blows the ignition fuse .

The main wire going to ignition switch on side of bike gets very hot when key in on position.

Any ideas ?

I have replace the starter relay and the starter cut out relay

 

 

Please help...

[dacheedah]

I would check the power wire from relay to starter and make sure it is not grounding somewhere.

 

Next i would check the ground wire from battery to see , is it clean and tight. A loose connection could cause this.

 

If that doesn't fix it Unhook your starter and run the wires to the starter you pulled off and ground it , try the starter button and see if it gets hot...

[madmaxx2011]

I have removed all wires from the harness a peeled all the tape and checked for any frays, all are clean.

Engine spins good with kill switch on, but blows fuse when killswitch is off.

This all started because the bike would shut off after driving a little while, it would restart and shut right back off like I shut key off.

After about an hour it would restart and run fine.

This only happened 2 times so I wanted to figure it out before it left me stranded.

Bike has run perfect for last 5k miles since I purchased it.

[tazmocycle]

i would take the wire off the starter and hook 1 of a set of jumper cables from the postive side of the battery and touch the other end to the starter post and see if the starter turns over, you can do this without having the postive cable on the battery. this will let you know if the starter windingare good or not. problybe good to put a nut on the threads of the post on the starter to keep from messing them up. if that works ok, you may have a bad connection in ingition switch,they are a weak spot in the wiring of these bikes. there are some ways of rerouting some of the wiring from the ign switch with relays to get the load off the switch. is youir ign switch up on the front frame or behind the seat on the right? you can take the ign switch apart and see if the contacts are bad. hope this helps out.

[bkuhr]

when I push the start button down the lights draw down and it blows the ignition fuse .

The main wire going to ignition switch on side of bike gets very hot when key in on position.

Any ideas ?

I have replace the starter relay and the starter cut out relay

 

 

Please help...

 

This one could be difficult to identify.

 

To sum up, ignition fuse blows when start button pressed when emergy stop switch is in normal run position. Does not blow when start button pressed and emergy stop is on STOP position, but starter does turn properly.

 

This eliminates starter and solenoid as problem.

 

Looking for items energized when start button pressed and emerg stop norm, but not when emerg stop is STOP.

 

2 items look to meet this condition. The fuel pump, and the TCI. Replace ing fuse, and disconnect first the fuel pump then the TCI, and try to see if fuse blows.

 

Could also be wiring problems, or other relays. Go ahead and remove cowlings. You may spot a damaged wire, and will need access for further troubleshooting.

[madmaxx2011]

I have removed the TCI from bike , as well as all connections around it. I know bike won't run but it should crank.

I have bypassed the kill switch . Still same problem though.

[bkuhr]

also disconnect the fuel pump and try

[madmaxx2011]

I did disconnect the fuel pump earlier

[bkuhr]

All right, sum up again so we are on the same page.

 

TCI and Fuel pump is unplugged, and still blows ing fuse when start button pressed. Does not blow fuse when emergency stop is STOP, and starter does crank. Does this sound correct?

 

I dont have wiring diagram in front of me now, but I believe we are left with just some relays and wiring.

 

Left start with also diconnect the start cutoff relay. It could be something downstream from when this relay is active, but would give a starting point that does not blow fuse. (or vice versa, quickly isolate problem at/near this relay)

[dacheedah]

I'm thinking your ignition switch has gone bad

[madmaxx2011]

I have ignition switch bypassed, and today after work I will disconnect the starter cutoff relay and try that.

[madmaxx2011]

Ok I came home from work and decided to test the starter cutout relay.

I followed by the book for continuity between blue/yellow and skyblue . Got none at all.

Next applied 12 volts to red/black and ground to black/yellow, then check continuity between blue and blue/white. Nothing at all.

Then I jumped blue and blue/white. Now engine cranks. If I put relay back into it, it wount crank.

Is it probable the starter cutout relay is bad ?

[bkuhr]

sounds like it probably is bad.

Remove it and see if fuse stops blowing

give it a 'sniff test'-elect burnt smell, replace for sure

[madmaxx2011]

If I remove it all together then starter switch does nothing.

However , I jump the blue/white and dark blue . Then starter cranks fine .

[bkuhr]

It seems shorted diodes internal the start cutout relay assemby is causing the problem, still possible after start cutout relay energizes, there is another problem further downstream that could cause a short, but it feel at this time it is unlikely, and a new start cutout relay assy should repair your problem.

 

Good job troubleshooting so far. I do not have an RSV, so I am relying only on wiring diagrams in assisting you.

[madmaxx2011]

Thank you man.

Most frustrating part of this is , I am a ASE certified auto tech for 20 years and this is stumping me.

[madmaxx2011]

Ok another question,

With the key in the on position , not touching starter button, I have a small amount of current at each spark plug wire where it plugs into the spark plug.

The current does not seem to change when I try to start motor.

The current remains constant when I unplug the starter cutout relay and pull all fuses. Except the ignition fuse.

My question is it supposed to have constant current at the sparkplug?.

With out engine running .

[bkuhr]

Ok another question,

With the key in the on position , not touching starter button, I have a small amount of current at each spark plug wire where it plugs into the spark plug.

The current does not seem to change when I try to start motor.

The current remains constant when I unplug the starter cutout relay and pull all fuses. Except the ignition fuse.

My question is it supposed to have constant current at the sparkplug?.

With out engine running .

 

Even with start cutout relay removed, coils and tci still are receiving power in the on position. The ground safety cutoff on the sB wire is removed due to missing start cutoff relay, and tci will not operate, but there could be leakage across the power transistors feeding each coil primary internal the tci, or across each primary itself thru leaky coils.

 

I do not think this is any issue to worry about, but would be curious if this continued with tci unpluged.

[madmaxx2011]

Ok this morning before I left for work I unplugged the TCI and checked for current at the plug, Same amount of current is going to the plug still.

You said you were curious if it was still happening.

[bkuhr]

Ok this morning before I left for work I unplugged the TCI and checked for current at the plug, Same amount of current is going to the plug still.

You said you were curious if it was still happening.

 

Well that is interesting, how current can flow the the coil primary, and be induced on the secondary, when the ground (tci) side of the primary is an open circuit with the tci unplugged. There must be some way for the primary current to 'leak' thru the coil to ground. I still doubt this is a real problem, especially if all four coils preform the same, but now I am curious how you are detecting the 'slight current at the plug'

[madmaxx2011]

I used a test light grounded at the battery , and check the metal portion of the secondary wire at the plug.

There is a faint constant glow...

[frankd]

Max,

 

You have voltage at the coil, not current!!! Also this is NOT what is blowing your fuse. You have something else grounded or shorted.

 

The coils have battery voltage applied at the RB (red with a black stripe) wires when the key is on. The ignition module grounds the other terminal to control the spark, so even if the module is not plugged in, the 12 volts will still be on the R/B wire if the key is on. The high voltage terminal of the coil is connected through the secondary winding to the primary (R/B), but the many turns of light gauge wire has 10K-15Kohm resistance, so the light glows a little bit.

 

If I was working on the bike, what I would do would be to:

 

1) Disconnect the battery negative lead, and connect a car headlight in series with it. this will limit the current to about 5 amps and prevent further damage from heat. Also, if the headlight is glowing brightly you will know you still have a problem.

 

2) Pull your headlight fuse---this will disconnect all the lights on your bike. Even though your problem is NOT in your light circuitry, this will allow the test headlight trick to work better.

 

3) Disconnect the blue wire from the starter solenoid---this will prevent the starter solenoid from picking up, and the starter will not be energized. The starter draws too much current normally for the headlight.

 

4) Turn the key & the kill switch on and then push the starter button. If you have a problem the headlight will light.

 

5) I would then take a DC clamp-on ammeter (this will measure the current in a wire without opening the wire up and connecting an ammeter) and determine exactly where the current is flowing. If you can't find anybody that has one, what you can do now is to disconnect items 1 at a time and troubleshoot it this way.

Edited August 2, 2012 by frankd

[madmaxx2011]

Ok thanks I will try after I get off work tonite

[Reaney in NH]

I know this is an old thread... But was this resolved and what was the problem?

 

Lots of great troubleshooting tricks in this thread.

[Sexagenarian]

bumping this to see if there was ever any resolution to this problem.. As the post previoius to mine stated: Good troubleshooting techniques in this thread .. curious as to what the outcome was.. cheers!!