unnessasary tazer death

[bobnlaurie]

"unnessasary tazer death"

 

So I'm guessing you were there to make this judgement huh?

I've been a cop long enough to know that most people either back the police or don't....not much in between. Usually the ones who don't have had a bad experiance with the police or blame them for giving them a ticket.

The huge majority of cops I know and work with applaude the system when a "bad" cop is help accountable.

This is not an easy job for me or my family. Let's wait for the facts.

The group of cops that I go to Sturgis with every year are no different than anyone else here. We love to ride, love our families, love God, and just want to go home at the end of the day.

Have a great weekend all.

Bob

[Guest kozman01]

Hipshot's comment ont he 90 lbs German Shepherd is spot on! Even thought mine is pushing 95 lbs (he's a few pounds over, but HIGHLY trained), I would not want to be on the business end of this dog for anything. He's my little 10 year-old daughters best friend though. That dog loves nothing more than my daughter, with the exception maybe being a big raw turkey neck. That dog has saved me from running after suspects more than a few times. The problem I have is that I don't know what I would do if Sammy ever got killed on the job, my daughters heart would be completely broken. She knows he's a police officer just like dad, but the dog is way cooler to my daughter than her dad is:)

 

A few posters made some comments I'd like to comment on, actually agree on. That the taser is mearly a tool available, it's not the magic answer to everythting and that the vast, vast majority of cops hate bad cops and love seeing them hung out to dry and dismissed form serving the public.

 

Everyone, have a safe day and kiss your kids/wife/husband/dog when you get home today and tell them you love them.

 

By the way "Wayne" if you offended anyone, they don't belong on this forum or in LE, I assume were all big boys and girls here. Your opinion or thoughts are woth just as much as the next guys and my opinions and thoughts can be as worthless as the next guys. It's all good!

[Snarley Bill]

i could never be a cop .i would be in jail and have my gun taken away the first week.could'nt even carry a gun if it was legal,still would'nt make it a week.guess it's my irish temper and the fact that i have no use for derelects.snarley bill

[Freebird]

Well...I have a policeman story from last night. I am embarrassed to even tell it but here goes anyway.

 

Yesterday my son got out of school early due to him finishing him mid term exams early. Since he has no school today either, he called and asked if he could go to a friends house. We told him yes and then I went to pick him up around 10:00 PM last night. I picked him up and was headed back home. Came through the little town of Oberlin around 10:15 or so. Oberlin is pretty much deserted that time of the evening so there was really no traffic at all. As I was just getting through town, probably the last traffic light, my son said "you know...you just went through a red light". It startled me because driving is a very big part of what I do everyday on my job and I am typically a very safe driver. When he told me that, I glanced in my rear view mirror and saw a car quickly pull out onto the road behind me. I knew it was a police officer.

 

So, I pulled over just about the time that he turned his flashing lights on. Took my driver's license out of my wallet and waited for him. He came to my window and said "how are you tonight sir". I greeted him in a friendly manner and told him I was fine except for running a red light. He said "man, you ran it big time. It had been red for a while before you approached". There was nothing I could say except "yes sir, I know. I'm sorry and have no idea where my head was". Now I wasn't speeding, the speed limit there was 35 MPH and I think I was probably driving about 25-30 MPH. Very casual, wasn't in any kind of hurry at all.

 

The policeman was very professional and friendly. Probably in his early 30s. I simply told him that I knew I ran the light when my son told me. That I had no idea why I had not seen it and that I had no excuses. I told him that I had a clean record and was usually a very safe driver and that I was simply sorry. He took my license and asked me to wait in the car. He went to his car and ran my information then came back. He said "Mr. Nelson, you are sure telling me the truth. You have no violations of any kind on your record". He said that he was not going to give me a ticket nor even a warning because he said "we all zone out at times" and your record is proof that this is not a usual thing for you. He told me that there was no reason to punish me with a ticket for making an honest mistake and that the real punishment would have been if another vehicle and crashed into me and injured them, myself or my son. I thanked him, we shook hands, and I went on my way.

 

I felt very bad about it but at the same time, I am thankful that if I had to do something that stupid that I was glad there was no accident. Since there was no accident, I am sort of glad that my 15 year old son was with me. I was able to demonstrate to him how to show the proper respect to a law enforcement official. He was able to see that officers in general are nice and professional people. I told him as we headed home that I hoped he learned some lessons from the experience. First of all, that you should always be respectful to law enforcement people. I told him that even if I had gotten a ticket (I fully expected to) that he should always maintain that respect and courtesy. That I was guilty and if I had received a ticket that it would have been nobodies fault but my own. I told him that being courteous and respectful would NOT always...maybe not even usually...get you out of a ticket but that was not the point. The point is to admit and take ownership of your mistakes and not to place the blame on a person who is just doing their job.

 

I think it was a good lesson to him. I'm thankful that the officer did not give me a ticket but even if he had, he was a very professional and nice young man. I know that not ALL are and yes, I've had one or two run ins in my life with some that were not but they have been the exception, not the norm.

 

Thanks to all that you do and I truly do respect you for what you put up with.

[Silver Bullet]

I'm not putting any one down here,but I wonder how many of those people would still be alive if they would not have been tazed? I don't think policemen or lawmen who deal with the public get payed enough to put there lives on the line every time they go to work....but I don't remember hearing of this many people dying by law enforcment before the tazer. In the hands of a well trained officer they are very good alternative to a glock 45. .but I think we need to rethink the tazer as it is today.. because ,,unless every one that has some health problem.don't have a sign around thier necks,,, more people are going to needlesly die.. I'm not taking the side of the bad guys here... just think what or how these deaths affect the officers that pull the trigger and the per son dies...no officer I know sleeps very well for a long time after somthing like this happens... so lets take another look and see if there is a better way,,so a life isn't taken....... my two cents.

[dynodon]

Freebird, Great story and a good lesson for your son.

 

Yesterday I was sitting at the front of the right lane at a red light at a busy intersection in our city and the left lane was empty and the left turn lane was occupied. There were several cars across in the opposing lane, and other cars waiting to turn on the cross street. I had a red light and the cross street still had green.

 

Woman in a compact car came past in the lane next to me (left) at probaby 5 over the 35 limit, and ran the light without ever slowing. Of course she had a cell phone to her ear. Never slowed or gave an idea that she could have killed someone if there had been cross traffic. Luckily there was none, so it wasn't a near miss, just a drive through. No police to witness.

 

Really scary. In your case Freebird, you were in a deserted area and although you had a loss of attention, I suspect had there been lots of cars in the intersection like we had yesterday, you would have easily made the stop and been safe.

 

Been a long time since I have gotten a warning or a pass, and I maybe average one ticket every 5 years? I used to get warnings when younger, but I guess they expect you to know better when older? Anyway, I am always polite, and take responsibility if I am in the wrong.

[Z Factor]

A Tazer should only be used in a case of an actual physical altercation with an officer, not as a tool for compliance.

 

Since there are no details about what has happened in this situation, I'll reserve my judgment for a later date.

 

I agree with what you said to an extent. However compliance could be verbal orders to get into a safe position for the officers to make an arrest. So if an LEO instructs a suspect to lay down or to get out of a vehicle, and the suspect refuses, what would you have them do?

 

From the other side of the coin, I think tasers are used too often just because the officer might not want to deal with delays in compliance, or an attitude from the citizen. We have all seen video of women that are upset or being stubborn getting tasered. If that woman were to die just because they were giving the LEO a little attitude, it would be criminal.

 

The irony is that tasers have probably saved more lives than people realize. In the past, club or knife wielding suspects were often dealt with using lethal force (i.e. firearms). In those situations, the taser is a great LE tool that prevents the need for deadly force.

 

In my view tasers need to be reassessed by an independent study to determine why several hundred people have died after being tasered. Presumably some of those deaths were not caused by the taser, but certainly some of them could be. The best thing that could happen from such a study would be to re-classify a taser as a less lethal weapon, not a non lethal one. Then different protocols could be established by the various law enforcement agencies to limit the use of the taser more so than is being currently being done.

[flb_78]

I'm not putting any one down here,but I wonder how many of those people would still be alive if they would not have been tazed? I don't think policemen or lawmen who deal with the public get payed enough to put there lives on the line every time they go to work....but I don't remember hearing of this many people dying by law enforcment before the tazer. In the hands of a well trained officer they are very good alternative to a glock 45. .but I think we need to rethink the tazer as it is today.. because ,,unless every one that has some health problem.don't have a sign around thier necks,,, more people are going to needlesly die.. I'm not taking the side of the bad guys here... just think what or how these deaths affect the officers that pull the trigger and the per son dies...no officer I know sleeps very well for a long time after somthing like this happens... so lets take another look and see if there is a better way,,so a life isn't taken....... my two cents.

 

 

OR maybe, if someone knows they have a heart condition, they shouldn't fight the police and get tazed. The tazer is a tool, like the gun, the police car and pepper spray.