Help- 4 LCD pictographs and red warning light.

[spitfire9]

I hadn't ridden my 83 VR for a couple weeks due to extreme temps outside. I checked the oil and it was fine, rode to the store with no problems, but got hit with a slew of LCD displays on the way home.

The kickstand, brake, oil and headlight pictographs are all on constantly, and the red warning light flickers brighter the faster I rev. I got home and rechecked oil- ok. Lights all operate, charging system at around 14 when running, temp in the mid green, resevoir at proper level. Brake and clutch fluids all clean and full. Runs like a top but I'm worried it's gonna die on me or I will harm the engine.

I checked it cold also and have same problem, even without starting the engine. When it runs thru the power-up checks, those LCDs just stay on.

Could it be a bad ground in the LCD panel? I read a thread about the repair, but wasn't clear on the symptoms that prompted it.

Edited July 12, 2012 by spitfire9
clarity

[bkuhr]

I think it is unlikely the cmu is defective, or lost either power or ground to it.

 

Most likely,something has happened behind the dash to loosen a plug, or god forbid, you have a critter such as a mouse behind the dash doing a number for you.

 

I guess the first action would be to try to verify if you actually have a fault for each circuit.

 

1. Test kickstand switch. Engine running, kickstand up, clutch in, place in gear then lower kickstand. Engine should die. This is not foolproof, because the lcd uses a different contact in the kickstand switch from what the engine kill used, but should be good enough if remaining tests also indicate no real problems.

 

2.The brake light tests for low brake fluid level in both (front and rear) brake master cylinders. Pretty sure the cmu sees a short to ground when both masters a full. When the ground goes away the fault segment should light. Find the wires going to the front master reservior, disconnect both white/blue wires. You will not be able to determine which goes to cmu or the rear master. Apply a ground to the bike side of both white/blue wires for at least 30sec each and see if the lcd goes out. If so the cmu is working any you have a real problem with front or rear or both masters.

 

3.The engine oil level sensor pretty, sure is opposite the brake level sensors, and indicates a fault when it see's a ground. Find the wire, crusted with dirt, on bottom of motor. Disconnect it and the lcd should go out. Likely the crud was causing a ground, and a good cleaning will solve this.

 

4.The headlight icon monitors BOTH the High and Low beam headlight. This is an actual current(amperage) monitor system. Try the H-L dimmer and VERIFY it actually changes both elements of the bulb. The reserve lighting system can over-ride a bad filiment and force the other than selected filiment on. If this is happening the white dash RLU light should also be on. Even of both filiments of the bulbs are working properly, it is a known problem, with the high current draw running into and out of the cmu for the headlight, the the cmu solder joints melt. They are repairable is this is the case.

 

*finally, if now you are pretty sure you do not have 4 actual fault problems, It would be time to pull the dash, looking for critters, and preparing to get another cmu.

[spitfire9]

Thanks, bkuhr, I did verify that the hi-lo beam is working perfectly, and the kickstand switch was also killing the bike in 1st gear. Appreciate the locations of plugs.

 

Now I just went out to look it over again, and lo and behold, all systems are normal. This morning I rode my cruiser to work because it was still acting goofy for the third day. I guess somewhere there is a loose connection in the dash. Like you said, I'm pretty sure 4 faults didn't suddenly occur (and now go away.) I will take the front end apart (gulp) this weekend and use contact cleaner everywhere. hopefully no mousetraps are necessary.

Edited July 13, 2012 by spitfire9

[Venturous Randy]

With so many systems going at once, I would suspect a loose ground wire, as that is the common link.

RandyA

[bkuhr]

Now I just went out to look it over again, and lo and behold, all systems are normal. .

 

Glad all working.

How has the humidity been? I would suspect with the sudden problem, then sudden clearing of the problem, that you have corrosion internal the cmu, and high humidity causes some of the detector circuits to short to ground thru wet corrosion. Then it drys up and works fine. I would plan on a non-riding weekend to pull the dash and cmu. Clean any corrosion with electrical contact cleaner and nylon brush or pencil eraser. Then reseal exposed solder joints with varnish or wifes fingernail polish. I prefer clear-the natural look seems so much better:)

[bkuhr]

With so many systems going at once, I would suspect a loose ground wire, as that is the common link.

RandyA

I would expect loss of a main cmu ground to cause the cmu to fail to display anything.

[spitfire9]

Glad all working.

How has the humidity been? I would suspect with the sudden problem, then sudden clearing of the problem, that you have corrosion internal the cmu, and high humidity causes some of the detector circuits to short to ground thru wet corrosion. Then it drys up and works fine. I would plan on a non-riding weekend to pull the dash and cmu. Clean any corrosion with electrical contact cleaner and nylon brush or pencil eraser. Then reseal exposed solder joints with varnish or wifes fingernail polish. I prefer clear-the natural look seems so much better:)

 

 

Yeah, I've always been partial to the "french nails" look myself.

 

Gonna also do this...

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=33328

[spitfire9]

Sigh- no luck so far. I took the dash out and resoldered all of the pins where the main plug comes into the display, cleaned all connections with contact cleaner and its still goofy.

The display itself works properly, but something still telling it to throw kickstand, oil and brakes as well as warning led blinking.

It has come and gone a couple of times and sometimes the headlamp warning comes on too. I took it out to open it up yesterday and rode it up to 90mph with all the warning lights on and it ran like a top. Parked it and then restarted it and they were off. Today- on. Also still has the "sluggish" tachometer.

 

One question- is there a relay in the back of the bike somewhere? You can hear a click back there in starting sequence. Compressor?

 

I think the fusebox is next place to start looking. Any other suggestions definitely appreciated.

[bkuhr]

The display itself works properly, but something still telling it to throw kickstand, oil and brakes as well as warning led blinking.

It has come and gone a couple of times and sometimes the headlamp warning comes on too. .

 

Did you split the borads in the cmu? I am suspecting corrosion such as pic needs fixed

[dingy]

 

One question- is there a relay in the back of the bike somewhere? You can hear a click back there in starting sequence. Compressor?

 

I think the fusebox is next place to start looking. Any other suggestions definitely appreciated.

 

 

The 'relay' you hear is probably the fuel pump running to fill carb bowls. This will happen on almost every start up. Will be a series of clicks lasting less than 4 seconds.

 

Gary

[spitfire9]

Thanks, dingy that must be it. Bkuhr yes it split the boards and resoldered and those large traces.

Here's a weird clue maybe- I started it and all 4 came on, then I revved it and the headlamp went out and stayed out.

[bkuhr]

Here is wire pinout of the plug

 

Backstab with ohm meter the effected circuits, (sidestand, brake level, engine oil level) and check for ground. This would give us indication if problem is from bike or internal cmu.

Headlight would be tested for volts in and volts out.

 

As for tach, I had a slow tach that needed lube of the mechanics. I over did it an ruined the electric board on the tach. Use light amount of instrument oil (3in1) and work needle by hand. Also lube speedo mechanics, and grease in the speedo cable head. I also lubed my volt and temp gages.

 

Make sure needle of gages are on correct side of stop pins before reassemble

[spitfire9]

Thanks a bunch, Bkuhr. I appreciate the pin out diagram. I ran out of sweat for today- its like 95 in my garage. Will check those pins to ground as soon as I can.

[KIC]

If it is a different symptom, the headlight working or not working might have to do with the starter button sticking just a tadge, or is it a tidge ? , in. If it happens again, try pulling the starter switch out. If that is the problem, a little electrical cleaner in there will help.

 

There is a thread in tech area on cleaning the swtiches in the handle bar areas.

[Yammer Dan]

If it is a different symptom, the headlight working or not working might have to do with the starter button sticking just a tadge, or is it a tidge ? , in. If it happens again, try pulling the starter switch out. If that is the problem, a little electrical cleaner in there will help.

 

There is a thread in tech area on cleaning the swtiches in the handle bar areas.

 

 

Yeah I need to do that on the 85. It sat for years.

[rbig1]

well i just finished doing my display. then had to replace headlight. and had to clean high low switch for headlights. i had rings around the solder joints and crud between terminals. and by the way the eraser was the greatest tip for cleaning board. all warning lights are out:):):)wew something worked the first try:cool10: sorry was just about to give up this bike has fought the whole way back to life.....

[spitfire9]

Could that switch cause an error light and the headlight still operate? I downloaded the pdf's on the cleaning, but haven't had time yet to get into it again. Think I will have time tonight if I can stand 104F in the garage. Hey what's the melting point of a Venture, anyway?

[rbig1]

the way i would test is at the plug behind cmu. is there a voltage drop between the in and out wire. mine is about 1 volt max. the back of my high low switch was filthy cleaned this up and head lamp was brighter and display worked correct. but dont go by me. first time repairing this. by the way was 100 where i worked on mine fan saved me. took me a little over 2 hrs to complete.

[spitfire9]

OK I found some stuff out, and came up with more questions. The main big plug on the back of the dash is 9 pin, not 17, and there is another smaller 14 pin connector. The colors on the chart given match though.

 

All values with engine off, ignition on.

 

Yellow/green stripe(HL-LO) to Green(HL-LO). Plugged-in .26V drop when switched on. Unplugged, 0V high beam switched, 11.76V lo beam switched.

 

Green/red stripe(HL-HI) to yellow/red stripe(HL-HI). Plugged-in .24V drop switched on. Unplugged, 0V lo beam switched, 11.76V Hi beam switched.

 

Yellow to yellow/blk stripe (brake). Unhooked- 0V, then 11.76V with pedal depressed.

 

(I think) that the headlight and brake switches are giving a clean connection.

 

When I played around with fusebox, my tach decided to get lively. I had great fun revving the crap out of it in the garage and listening to the pipes sing. So I unhooked the battery and pulled fuses, cleaning contacts and squeezing the fuse grips together a little. Reconnected everything and tach less lively. Sigh. No change in dash errors.

 

The errors all light up when I plug in the smaller plug, so I guess thats the next step. I also need to look at that oil switch wire, along with completely redoing the fusebox, which is actually laying on top of the battery, and has 2 1-1/4" fuses where they should be 20mm.

[DragonRider]

If you still have the original fuse box with the glass fuses, replace it with the upgraded fuse box that Skydoc17 sells, it a great fix and cleans up all the extra wiring and uses the small spade type fuses. Its easy to install and fixes all your electrial problems stemming from that old antique fuse block. I did it and it only took about 45 mins to do, but go out and buy the fuses before it gets there........they dont come with the kit. Not knocking Earl on that, it keeps the costs down. He has adds in the classified section for several of his upgrades for the 1st gens and all are of fantastic quality and reasonably priced.

 

 

OK I found some stuff out, and came up with more questions. The main big plug on the back of the dash is 9 pin, not 17, and there is another smaller 14 pin connector. The colors on the chart given match though.

 

All values with engine off, ignition on.

 

Yellow/green stripe(HL-LO) to Green(HL-LO). Plugged-in .26V drop when switched on. Unplugged, 0V high beam switched, 11.76V lo beam switched.

 

Green/red stripe(HL-HI) to yellow/red stripe(HL-HI). Plugged-in .24V drop switched on. Unplugged, 0V lo beam switched, 11.76V Hi beam switched.

 

Yellow to yellow/blk stripe (brake). Unhooked- 0V, then 11.76V with pedal depressed.

 

(I think) that the headlight and brake switches are giving a clean connection.

 

When I played around with fusebox, my tach decided to get lively. I had great fun revving the crap out of it in the garage and listening to the pipes sing. So I unhooked the battery and pulled fuses, cleaning contacts and squeezing the fuse grips together a little. Reconnected everything and tach less lively. Sigh. No change in dash errors.

 

The errors all light up when I plug in the smaller plug, so I guess thats the next step. I also need to look at that oil switch wire, along with completely redoing the fusebox, which is actually laying on top of the battery, and has 2 1-1/4" fuses where they should be 20mm.

[bkuhr]

OK I found some stuff out, and came up with more questions. The main big plug on the back of the dash is 9 pin, not 17, and there is another smaller 14 pin connector. The colors on the chart given match though. The chart is based on 83 cmu

 

All values with engine off, ignition on.

 

Yellow/green stripe(HL-LO) to Green(HL-LO). Plugged-in .26V drop when switched on. Unplugged, 0V high beam switched, 11.76V lo beam switched. Seems ok

 

Green/red stripe(HL-HI) to yellow/red stripe(HL-HI). Plugged-in .24V drop switched on. Unplugged, 0V lo beam switched, 11.76V Hi beam switched. Seems ok

FYI, Both headlight high & low use the SAME Large light icon.

 

Yellow to yellow/blk stripe (brake). Unhooked- 0V, then 11.76V with pedal depressed. Should be a voltage drop simular to headlight/ based on BOTH 1157 tail/brake bulbs lighting. I had thought we were talking about the brake LEVEL circuit-my mistake.

FYI, Both the tail running lights & the tail brake lights use the SAME Small light icon. They are based on BOTH bulbs working properly.

 

(I think) that the headlight and brake switches are giving a clean connection.

 

When I played around with fusebox, my tach decided to get lively. I had great fun revving the crap out of it in the garage and listening to the pipes sing. So I unhooked the battery and pulled fuses, cleaning contacts and squeezing the fuse grips together a little. Reconnected everything and tach less lively. Sigh. No change in dash errors.

Skydoc17 sells a great ATC fuse block kit, in classified section.

 

The errors all light up when I plug in the smaller plug, so I guess thats the next step. I also need to look at that oil switch wire, along with completely redoing the fusebox, which is actually laying on top of the battery, and has 2 1-1/4" fuses where they should be 20mm.

 

Little bit of operation theory. All 4 lighting circuits, headlight high & low, tail running light, and tail brake light, use a current sensing system. They also share just 2 icons. Big light icon is for headlight faults, and small light icon is for tail light faults.

Each of the 4 circuits has a wire coil on the back pc board of the cmu. Each coil creates an electromagnetic force when operating correctly that actuates a glass reed switch within the middle of each coil.

The reed switch is Normally Closed to ground, and Opens when activated, working on a biased resistor network creates a High logic voltage when open.

One of the IC chips is a quad XOR comparator. The XOR gate monitors both, when a circuit is activated (high voltage), and if the reed switch is activated (high voltage), and sends a output to turn on a fail icon only if 1 input or the other is high.

If both inputs are high, (circuit on & working), or both low (circuit off), The XOR remains off and icons are off.

The moral of all this is, if by chance there is a large non stock external magnet(such as a speaker magnet) in close proxmity of the cmu, it could affect operation of the reed switches.

[spitfire9]

Thanks, I understand the operation better now. Just can't make the connection to what can cause so many to come on at once. Nothing was added or changed. No aftermarket goodies, speakers, gps, anything. It sat in garage in dry heat for 2 weeks then went haywire. Maybe the chip is bad, but not sure why the problem went away once then came back, without riding it and bumping it around any.

I am going to get that fuseblock replaced and go from there. Someone told me in another thread that replacing it fixed his tach and "other problems". I think there was a cmu on ebay last week from an 85- might not hurt to get it to try.

 

update- I like the look of that kit- just ordered one.

Edited July 19, 2012 by spitfire9

[spitfire9]

After all the replies and help I got, I thought I ought to update with the final result. Bought a used 85VR dashboard on ebay and swapped out the cmu. Problem solved. I wonder if I can just replace the chip in the other unit and have a spare Also installed skydoc's fuseblock replacement kit. It starts much quicker now(starter has been replaced recently).

[friesman]

After all the replies and help I got, I thought I ought to update with the final result. Bought a used 85VR dashboard on ebay and swapped out the cmu. Problem solved. I wonder if I can just replace the chip in the other unit and have a spare Also installed skydoc's fuseblock replacement kit. It starts much quicker now(starter has been replaced recently).

 

Thanks for letting us know that it is all working fine now.

 

Brian

[iphlue]

well i just finished doing my display. then had to replace headlight. and had to clean high low switch for headlights. i had rings around the solder joints and crud between terminals. and by the way the eraser was the greatest tip for cleaning board. all warning lights are out:):):)wew something worked the first try:cool10: sorry was just about to give up this bike has fought the whole way back to life.....

 

 

I'll be doing this as well hopefully this weekend. My brake fluid indicator is driving me crazy. I thought I had it narrowed down to the connector on the back but its baaaack... My next suspicion was just as rbig1 described.

 

BTW guys, DEOXIT D5 does miracles on contacts and corrosion stuff. As a maintenance electrician I use it all the time and have seen it do very well with contacts. It also reverses corrosion and leaves a nice layer of protection.

http://store.caig.com/s.nl/it.A/id.1602/.f?sc=2&category=188