Hard to downshift sometimes

[frankd]

I've been working on the 83, the one my brother has been using. When it got here, it had only had the front brake working, a weak alternator, a big oil leak on the left side, and a slipping clutch. plus it had lots of other problems. The last 3 months, I've been working on it, and after fixing everything else and then rebuilding the rear master cylinder I finally took it for a good ride. Another problem has shown up. Sometimes it's real hard to downshift, especially from 4th to 3rd. When this happens, you have to let the clutch out a little and then it'll go. Before I thought of letting the clutch out a little to load 4th gear a little, I thought I might be limping home in 4th. I suppose I should mention that this thing has 140,000 miles on it and at 82K I fixed 2nd gear, but 3 years ago when I last saw it it shifted OK I should also mention that my brother isn't too gentle on the old girl---he likes to powershift, and I've seen him pushing hard on the shift lever.

 

To fix the clutch, I installed a Skydoc spring and full inside clutch plate kit. Now the clutch doesn't slip and it does seem to be disengaging all the way when the lever is pulled in. In this project, I replaced the slave cylnder, and replaced all of the brake fluid. It's clean, fresh and completely bled. The clutch lever feels good, and is engaging at the correct point. When I did 2nd gear (10-12 years ago), I replaced the shift drum and 2nd gear, as per the Yammie service bulletin. I don't think I replaced the 4th gear shift fork, but I did replace 1st and 2nd gear shift forks I've checked the shift linkage----the hole in the left engine cover that the shift linkage shaft passes through is worn a bit, so it's sloppy and the pivot for the shift lever is a bit worn also, however there is no play in the linkage inside of the gearbox itself. I oiled the shift linkage and took it for another ride last night, and it was a lot better, but not correct. If I wanted to shift down from 5 to 3rd, sometimes I had to let the clutch out a little to get it to go from 4th to 3rd. BTW, neutral is a bit of a pain to get into. If you're moving, it'll go from 2nd to neutral fine. If you're stopped and in first, you have to let the clutch out a little briefly like you're taking off, and if you are pulling up on the shift lever when you pull the clutch back in, it'll go to neutral.

 

I'm wondering if my brother didn't bend a shift lever because it feels as if the shift drum is hard to turn. Or, is it because of the 140K and almost 30 years, just worn out? I know that several riders that have heel/toe shifters installed have had something break....does anybody know what they break? The bike is rideable, but if something in the shift linkage is damaged and lets go, it could leave my brother stranded. Any ideas???

 

Frank D.

[Power Trippin]

I don't know what breaks with heel/toe shifters, but it sounds like a bent shift fork or a bad spot on the roller drum. Have your brother fix it, or at least help you fix it, this time. Maybe then after he sees how much work it is, he will be easier on the shifter.

[bkuhr]

The service advisory bulltiens Gary recently posted included a fix for hard to shift, If remember, involved bending slightly the shift fork clutch side.

 

Here is what I was thinking of, but it states for 'hard to find neutral'

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=69317&d=1341682463

Edited July 10, 2012 by bkuhr
add link

[dacheedah]

The other thought is some air in the clutch line, maybe a bleeding is in order. . .

[friesman]

Have you tried spraying some grease along the shifter shaft where it passes through the case? Mine seems to bind there in hot weather unless I keep it well greased.

 

Brian

[Rocket]

I'm wondering if my brother didn't bend a shift lever because it feels as if the shift drum is hard to turn. Quite possibly

 

Or, is it because of the 140K and almost 30 years, just worn out? Not likely

 

I know that several riders that have heel/toe shifters installed have had something break....does anybody know what they break? The bike is rideable, but if something in the shift linkage is damaged and lets go, it could leave my brother stranded. Any ideas???

 

Frank D.

 

Stator case where the shift linkage passes through. It is intended for a relay point only & not to have a heel / toe shifter directly mounted on the shaft. That is what I remember hearing, about that.

[Marcarl]

Had a nephew (6'4", 250 lbs, all muscle) ride mine. He couldn't find 1st and so decided to give the shifter a little harder push, bent the rod behind the middle gear cover, then it was really hard to shift,,,, thanks nephew! Bent the rod back to almost straight and now all is well again. Did the job just by removing the middle gear cover and the foot pegs, then carefully sticking a crow bar in the recess to bend the rod back to near normal. Will do for now, not as good as straight, it would be stronger that way, but it's ok for me.

[frankd]

Thanks for the help all.

 

Power Trippin----Yes, my brother needs to spend a lot more time working on the ol' girl. He did spend a couple of days with me, but he lives 160 miles away and isn't mechanically inclined. A great brother, but...... When I volunteered to fix a couple of things, I thought it'd be a stator and a Skydoc clutch kit. The list grew and grew and now I want it gone.

 

 

Bkuhr-----I'd read those service bulletins that Dingy posted and a lot of good info there. When I read the one about adjusting the finger for the shift drum, I wished that I didn't have the clutch done already.

 

DaCheeda----The clutch slave is free of air. I replaced the slave, and replaced all of the clutch fluid. I have a vacuum bleeder, so bleeding was easy. After this I bled it the normal method until all traces of bubbles were gone. Then a couple of days later I checked it again. Then after riding it some, I checked it again. NO more bubbles. THe clutch is disengaging completely about 1/2"-3/4" before the clutch lever gets to the end of it's travel. Checking this was the first thing I thought of, especially after replacing the slave cylinder and installing the Skydoc clutch kit.

 

Friesman-----I'd already put a little heavy oil in the pivot, and it did help some. Per your suggestion, I put some spray grease in it yesterday.

 

Rocket......Thanks for that info. The case isn't broken on this one, just worn out a bit. I figured that was where the heel/toe shifters had problems, but nice to know for sure.

 

Carl-----Here from the computer, it sounds like this is what I'm dealing with. My brother is only about 150#, but I saw him get pretty violent on the shift lever. I will check this and see if it's the problem. I did find a new gasket for the middle gear cover when I was looking for other "spare parts" so I don't have to order another gasket before I take the cover off. If my son is free this morning, maybe we can lay the bike over on the right side and look up at the linkage from the bottom. I hope this is the problem...I hope this is the problem. BTW, I did notice that the shift lever did seem to be out of adjustment, and this would also point to this same thing. Of course, I've already re-adjusted the linkage to get it back where it belongs.

 

Thanks,

 

Frank D.

[Yammer Dan]

Just another thought. My 85 with 20k shifts very easy. My 86 with 70k shifts a lot harder.

[Pegasus1300]

One of the problems with the 83's besides the 2nd gear is the indexing wheel on the clutch side.For some reason the little tabs that hold the little rods in place so the shifter can rotate the shift drum get caught and bent up.As these hang up they cause hard shifting. In time the tabs become loose enough to allow the rod to fall out and then you can't shift past that point.It is an easy fix, just put the bike on the side stand, remove the clutch cover, remove the clutch,you will see the wheel and tabs and the one(s) that are bent.If there is a newer part number you may be able to give a permanent fix by replacing the wheel. There wasn't when I had my 83 back in the day.

[Yammer Dan]

One of the problems with the 83's besides the 2nd gear is the indexing wheel on the clutch side.For some reason the little tabs that hold the little rods in place so the shifter can rotate the shift drum get caught and bent up.As these hang up they cause hard shifting. In time the tabs become loose enough to allow the rod to fall out and then you can't shift past that point.It is an easy fix, just put the bike on the side stand, remove the clutch cover, remove the clutch,you will see the wheel and tabs and the one(s) that are bent.If there is a newer part number you may be able to give a permanent fix by replacing the wheel. There wasn't when I had my 83 back in the day.

 

There is a newer part on this fix I think that is supposed to hold up better??

[frankd]

Carl---I checked the shift linkage and it's straight. I did see that I had the shift lever too high, and the rubber cover for the joint that connects the adjusting link (turnbuckle) to the shift lever was rubbing the middle gear cover. After I re-adjusted the linkage lower, it didn't bind in gear anymore. It still doesn't shift anywhere as easy as my 89 (56,000 miles) but it shifts. My brother picked it up tonight, but when time allows, I'll pull the clutch cover and look at the shift wheel and make sure everything is OK there.

 

Frank