Thinking about upgrading my brakes

[raybear71]

As most already know the brakes on the MK1 suck. I found a nice set of forks for a 90-93 on ebay but missed the end of the auction. I sent the seller a pm and hope he gets back to me. Is $100 shipped a decent price? I figure I will get everything piece by piece until I have everything to do the job.

[bongobobny]

It's a fair price depending on the condition of them, but not the deal of the century. Shipping is the biggie! It would be a good idea to rebuild the shocks and put progressive shocks in them as long as they are off the bike anyway. That will avoid taking them off at a later date and you would know everytrhing is fresh.

 

Stainless steel brake lines are also an improvement as they do not expand like rubber lines do. You should also hunt around for a set of Yamaha R1 calipers as they are 4 piston as oposed to 2 piston that the MK2 calipers are...

[GaryZ]

You should also hunt around for a set of Yamaha R1 calipers as they are 4 piston as oposed to 2 piston that the MK2 calipers are...

 

I'm not sure why there are folks that believe a 4-pot is better than a 2-pot for street bikes. If the swept area is the same, there should be little noticeable difference.

[Royalstargazer]

I'm not sure why there are folks that believe a 4-pot is better than a 2-pot for street bikes. If the swept area is the same, there should be little noticeable difference.

 

 

Gary,

 

Speaking from experience, since I just upgraded my RSV brakes to the R1 brake calipers, there is a BIG difference in the stopping power. My main reason was since I plan to pull a trailer. There is a firmer feel to the brake lever, and with the same amount of pressure on the lever the bikes stops way better and quicker. But that is just my opinion.

 

George

[bongobobny]

the difference is you have force squeezing the calipers on both sides, not jamming the caliper together, and double the force area on the pads, the area of the stock on the one pad plus the area on the second pad...

[Snaggletooth]

It's a fair price depending on the condition of them, but not the deal of the century. Shipping is the biggie! It would be a good idea to rebuild the shocks and put progressive shocks in them as long as they are off the bike anyway. That will avoid taking them off at a later date and you would know everytrhing is fresh.

 

Stainless steel brake lines are also an improvement as they do not expand like rubber lines do. You should also hunt around for a set of Yamaha R1 calipers as they are 4 piston as oposed to 2 piston that the MK2 calipers are...

 

 

And don't forget you'll be needing to get 2nd gen rotors also.

 

I've been pulling together parts for the upgrade for two years now. I've got everything I need now.... almost. Worst of my luck has been with finding decent, usable, rebuildable fork sets. I've bought three sets so far. With every set there has been one problem or another. Damaged inner forks, you wouldn't belive how many missing parts there have been, and even found one set of outer legs that looked like they had taken the seals out with a chisel.

 

The last set beat all. The PO had appartently used JB Weld or another epoxy to install the oil locks in the forks. They ain't coming out.

 

I don't blame the sellers (EBay items) as they all appeared to be usable. But the PO's sure had good reason to get rid of the bikes.

 

But for sure, open up what you buy and do an inspection and rebuild for you own safety.

 

Mike

[dingy]

the difference is you have force squeezing the calipers on both sides, not jamming the caliper together, and double the force area on the pads, the area of the stock on the one pad plus the area on the second pad...

 

OK Bob, I would like to think I am somewhat of an expert on 1st gen brakes, but you lost me here.

 

The stock calipers, have 2 pistons, one on either side. The R1's have four pistons, 2 on each side. Other than that, the dynamics of the braking action is the same, or am I overlooking something.

 

Gary

[GaryZ]

OK Bob, I would like to think I am somewhat of an expert on 1st gen brakes, but you lost me here.

 

The stock calipers, have 2 pistons, one on either side. The R1's have four pistons, 2 on each side. Other than that, the dynamics of the braking action is the same, or am I overlooking something.

 

Gary

 

As I said, given the same swept area, there should be little difference. However, if the R1 pads are larger, the swept area is greater and there would be more powerful brake action. I think folks want 4 and 6 pot brakes because 200HP race bikes have them.

[Squeeze]

The major Difference between the MKII and the R1 Calipers is the MKII's are made of two Pieces and bolted togehter whereas the R1's are casted in one Piece and machined afterwards.

 

Believe it or not, that makes a huge Difference, especially when things get hot.

 

Which is, as you might know it, the Case in every Braking Manouver.

 

If the MKII Calipers would be as great as you imply, they still would be used on every new Yamaha which is leaving the Factory. But, that's not the Case. They did away with them Calipers on every Model they built. They don't come up with more sophisticated Technology for no Reason. Standard nowadays is radial mounted, six Piston Calipers with 320 mm Rotors.

[raybear71]

C'mon fellas, I didn't mean to start arguments here. I just wanted some input on the forks. I pm'd the guy and got them for $100 shipped to my door. Here are some pic's. Um....when you're done looking at the pics feel free to argue some more about the brakes, I haven't decided which calipers to use yet.:rotf: Oh, and don't forget to give me your on the forks. Thanks, Ray.

[bongobobny]

OK Bob, I would like to think I am somewhat of an expert on 1st gen brakes, but you lost me here.

 

The stock calipers, have 2 pistons, one on either side. The R1's have four pistons, 2 on each side. Other than that, the dynamics of the braking action is the same, or am I overlooking something.

 

Gary

Yes, my bad! For some reason I was thinking the MK2 calipers only had pistons on one side and were a two piston instead of a 4 piston!! It's been a while since I worked on them! Been too busy researching Honda automotive calipers and replacing the brakes on the Monte Carlo! Without thinking about it I gave the reasoning behind bistons on both sides as opposed to pistons on one side only!

 

The advantage of the R1's is they are lighter weight and as Squeeze mentioned, far superior in design! They are also a lot less expensive and easier to rebuild...

[GaryZ]

The major Difference between the MKII and the R1 Calipers is the MKII's are made of two Pieces and bolted togehter whereas the R1's are casted in one Piece and machined afterwards.

 

You think that race bike parts are needed on the street. The performance difference of two-piece vs one-piece is not going to be noticed on a street bike unless it does double duty as a weekend track bike. Lots of folks want the cool stuff, and that's OK. Just try to not rationalize why you think you need it . . .

 

If the MKII Calipers would be as great as you imply, they still would be used on every new Yamaha which is leaving the Factory. But, that's not the Case. They did away with them Calipers on every Model they built. They don't come up with more sophisticated Technology for no Reason. Standard nowadays is radial mounted, six Piston Calipers with 320 mm Rotors.

 

There are lots of reasons why a manufacturer changes to different parts and assemblies. You will find few parts used on a 1985 motorcycle still used today. And, the standard brakes on a Honda GL1800 Goldwing are:

 

Front: Dual full-floating 296mm discs with CBS three-piston calipers

Rear: Single ventilated 316mm disc with CBS three-piston caliper

 

This brake set-up is a long way from the "radial-mounted, six piston calipers with 320mm rotors" found on premium sport bikes. Why? Because the fancy brakes are over-kill and would drive the MSRP up. Let's try and keep it real. If you want fancy brakes, do it. But, let's not confuse the new guys.

[Yammer Dan]

BRAKES??? Who needs em?? Just another thing ta slow ya down!!

[raybear71]

Are the r-1 calipers a direct fit or do I need a bracket of some sort? I'm assuming I will need a different master cylinder, what years-bikes should I get one from? Will the master and lever from an r-1 fit my venture?

[raybear71]

I forgot to mention that the linked brakes have grown on me. Should I also upgrade the rear brakes? If yes what is the best route to go? Thanks

[bongobobny]

OK the R1's are direct bolt on with the MK2 and 2nd Gen but you need the 4 piston which is '05 and older I think. You can switch to the MK2 rear 4 piston caliper, which is still being used on the 2nd gens, but you also need the caliper mounting arm, and you have to modify the pivot on the swing arm to a larger diameter, and you have to change out the rear rotor as well.

 

I agree, I kind of like the linked brakes...

[Squeeze]

You think that race bike parts are needed on the street. The performance difference of two-piece vs one-piece is not going to be noticed on a street bike unless it does double duty as a weekend track bike. Lots of folks want the cool stuff, and that's OK. Just try to not rationalize why you think you need it . . .

 

 

 

There are lots of reasons why a manufacturer changes to different parts and assemblies. You will find few parts used on a 1985 motorcycle still used today. And, the standard brakes on a Honda GL1800 Goldwing are:

 

Front: Dual full-floating 296mm discs with CBS three-piston calipers

Rear: Single ventilated 316mm disc with CBS three-piston caliper

 

This brake set-up is a long way from the "radial-mounted, six piston calipers with 320mm rotors" found on premium sport bikes. Why? Because the fancy brakes are over-kill and would drive the MSRP up. Let's try and keep it real. If you want fancy brakes, do it. But, let's not confuse the new guys.

 

You go very well around the technical Side of the Business. "The performance difference of two-piece vs one-piece is not going to be noticed on a street bike"

 

Honestly, your Words sound like you have no Idea what you're talking about. More Weight creates more Heat during every Braking, these 2-Piece Calipers give away long before the Fluid starts to think about it's boiling Point.

 

But anyway, needed on the Street is a wide open Field, fancy Brakes, may be, but also, what about Availabilty at reasonable Price ?

 

Honestly, i don't care what Honda sees fitting their premium 3-Bedroom, Kitchen, AC and Grill Tourer, but if the System would fit to a 1Gen Bike AND could be had at a reasonable Price, i'd be all in, would even think about mounting the ABS which should be fitted with the whole System. Ooops, ain't gonny work ?

 

Well, three to four Hundred Dollars will upgrade a 1Gen Brake, around two hundred Dollars for 2Gen to a seriously better performing System. I 'd venture to guess, those super Honda Brakes might be available for the same Money, but will they fit ?

 

If you feel offended about using YZF-R1 Calipers, ok, no Problem, go with FJR 1300 Calipers instead, it's a Tourer, no Sports Bike, those Brakes should be OK for use with a big but older Tourer. Ok, they use these dangerously sporty 320 mm Rotors too at later Years, but one could just ignore THAT Fact.

 

We can argue all these Points to death, it's like beating a dead Horse, we had these Discussion here in the Past. I could come up with some, maybe sixty PN's about the Issue with three Members here. Some Member here have done the Switch and i think for the most Part they're happy with what has been suggested. Some of them even may vouch for the Upgrades suggested. Believe it or not, newer Generation Brakes are just that, newer and better. Starts with Materials used, goes on with more performant Hydraulics and is not limited to the use of newer Friction Materials and free or semi-floating Rotors.

 

I for one, would never suggest or recommend rebuilding stock Calipers used on our Bikes. Just too much Money and Time involved for still non-adequate Performance, but if you feel it's better for you, just ignore what has been said here and stay with your stock System. The OP said, he's thinking about upgrading the Brakes and that's what we talk about in this Thread.

[raybear71]

will the front rotors from an r-1 also fit?

[Squeeze]

No, not without extra Brackets.

 

Most R1-Rotors are 298 mm, the later are 320 mm. There are also different inner mounting Patterns and Diameters. For a Bolt-On to the MKII Forks, you'll need 282 mm Rotors, six Bolts, 132mm inner Diameter, 150mm Bore Diameter.