Another fuel pump question

[TEW47]

Well bike won't run. Filled up with gas on thursday and washed it. Saturday went to crank it up and it only ran for about 30 seconds and quit. Fuel pump did not click on. Today I drained the tank and carbs. Still no clicking from fuel pump. Tested with ohmn meter and got no resistance between the blue/black and black wires going to fuel pump. Is there a fuse and where is it? Battery is good Cutoff switch is on and have new gas with seafoam.

HELP!

 

tew47

[Gary N.]

If there was gas in the bowls it should have fired up. The fuel pump relay times out after about 10 seconds or so if the engine doesn't start. If you can bypass the pump and get the motor running the pump should run continuously. If it doesn't then it's gone bad. I just replaced mine with one from Car Quest. Part number 41501. A little work to get it mounted but a lot less money than the one form Yamaha.

Edited June 18, 2012 by Gary N.

[Marcarl]

Run a couple of wires from the battery, or from a charger, directly to the pump to see if it will work, if it does, then you need to work on the relay, if it doesn't, replace the pump as Gary indicated.

[TEW47]

Pulled fuel pump, full of crud, changed fuel filter. Then I ran a couple of wires to pump and it ran. Put pump in vice and filled it with seafoam. Will put it back on tomorrow and see what happens. Where is the relay? Drained Carbs first, then tried, still no clicking, no pumping.

 

tew47

[allwx]

Most likely the pump is dead. It is a common failure on these bikes. Mine went intermittent at around 20k miles. It stayed intermittent for a couple of weeks while I wondered why the bike would be so balky when first started up. Then it failed completely. Very unlikely to be the relay.

 

I *think* the pump relay is behind the rightside cover, just below the saddle. There's more than one device in there, though, and I don't know which one is the relay, if any.

[TEW47]

Went to Advance auto parts place and got a Mr. gasket 42S. will put it on tomorrow. $45 sure beats over $200 at dealer. Dealer said if it was gummed up from ethanol they would not warrenty it and I would have to sign the work order so if that was the problem I would have to pay for the new fuel pump. No, I don't think so.

 

tew47

[V7Goose]

Just a quick word of advice - if you use an aftermarket fuel pump without a positive cutoff (blocks the fuel flow when the power is off), you should get used to shutting off the gas when you stop the bike. This was standard procedure before the 80s when vacuum operated petcocks became common, and there were even thousands of us who successfully ignored it, but you do run a risk of a leaking carb float valve and resulting engine problems. I THINK I know of two instances of these problems with Ventures.

 

Even if the risk is slight, there are two very bad things that can happen if you end up with a leaking float valve. If the engine is stopped with the intake valve open, the slow trickle of gas can drain past the rings and massively dilute the oil, causing major internal engine damage over time. Second, if the engine stops with the intake valve closed, the gas can pool at the valve, then when you try to start it - hydro-lock. Result can be bent con rod and engine destruction.

 

Finally, the fact that ALL RSV and RSTD carb floats are set WAY TO HIGH from the factory significantly increases your risk of this problem if they have not been corrected.

 

The cheapest aftermarket pumps do NOT have positive fuel cutoff, so the easy solution is simply to use the fuel shutoff valve at the tank when you stop the bike.

Goose

Edited June 19, 2012 by V7Goose

[Guest scarylarry]

Can you buy a aftermarket with a positive fuel cut off pump?

[V7Goose]

Yes, I listed both types of fuel pumps in the alternative parts list you can find in the tech library. Generally, light aircraft use the non-cutoff type because they cannot afford to have the engine stop if the pump fails, but other small engines are safer with the positive cutoff.

 

The other important specification to pay attention to is the low fuel pressure required by our bikes. Most aftermarket pumps are too high. Higher fuel pressure m3eans higher float levels before the needle valve shuts it completely off.

Goose

Edited June 19, 2012 by V7Goose

[Gary N.]

Just a quick word of advice - if you use an aftermarket fuel pump without a positive cutoff (blocks the fuel flow when the power is off),

Finally, the fact that ALL RSV and RSTD carb floats are set WAY TO HIGH from the factory significantly increases your risk of this problem if they have not been corrected.

 

The cheapest aftermarket pumps do NOT have positive fuel cutoff, so the easy solution is simply to use the fuel shutoff valve at the tank when you stop the bike.

Goose

 

Kent, is there a simple way to tell if the aftermarket pump we buy has this positive cutoff? Maybe remove the hoses and try blowing through with the key turned off? Or removing the carb side hose from the pump and turning the petcock on to see if fuel flows?

[V7Goose]

Kent, is there a simple way to tell if the aftermarket pump we buy has this positive cutoff? Maybe remove the hoses and try blowing through with the key turned off? Or removing the carb side hose from the pump and turning the petcock on to see if fuel flows?

That's about it. I have no idea if blowing air would show anything, but it is an interesting idea. But just turning on the gas without the power will tell you easily if the pump has positive shutoff. Unfortunately, you cannot do that until you have already bought the pump. But that is why I listed the two types by part number in the alternative parts list.

Goose

[TEW47]

Thganks to all. I will be turning off the fuel valve when the engine is off. A friend has a shop and can almost brand new pumps and has cross references to all pumps. If I can afford a used one I will get it and use Mr Gasket for a backup. So far runs good and no leaks.

 

tew47

[Guest tx2sturgis]

Ok, I'm just throwing this out there.

 

Suppose a guy installed an aftermarket fuel pump without the check valve. Saved $150. Would an inexpensive add-on solenoid-operated 12v check valve be an option?

 

Something like this maybe:

 

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Water-Air-Gas-Fuel-NC-Solenoid-Valve-1-8-BSPP-12VDC-/261034862271?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cc6e3e6bf

 

Properly installed and wired to the ignition side, would this work?

 

 

 

[allwx]

Facet (also makes the 42S) has a part #FAC-40178 that has a check-valve feature. Costs around $70 here and there.

 

I bought one last year after I installed my 42S. I had read several reviews of the 42S in automotive applications where the users reported short life span for the 42S. Because of this, and because I wanted a check-valve feature, I bought the 40178 and keep it on my shelf waiting for the inevitable 42S failure (which means the 42S will undoubtedly last for ten years).

 

I've gotten back into the habit of turning off the petcock. Not that big a deal.

 

But I occasionally forget to turn the valve back on after a stop. THis is probably what will lead to the early demise of the 42S, running dry for a few seconds now and again. However, so far, it is about a year old and runs great.