I got GREMLINS

[Marcarl]

Here's the scoop:

1985 Venture Royale

148,000 km

New stator and RR

AGM battery showing 12.36 volts, sitting for 36 hours

All lights are LEDs except for headlight, signals and driving lights.

LEDs are wiring in to the running light circuits at random, and brake lights are LEDs as well.

Outside temp about 10 degrees C or 50 degrees F

 

Here's the gremlin(s)

Wayne and I were out for a ride on Wednesday night. Rode for about 1.5 hours then stopped for coffee. Wayne said that one of my LED banks in my trunk was flickering, so after coffee went out to check it out. I turned on the key to light up my life and low and behold, NONE of the LEDs were working. I tried again but still nothing. So I fired up the scoot and revved it up, blink, blink and all the lights were working. Turned everything off and had the same scenario. So I drove home figuring to check it out and fix the issue. Now I don't have any issues at all,,,,can't get it to repeat.

Did I leave the gremlins at Timmies, or are they hiding somewhere?

[Flyinfool]

Sure sounds like a loose or bad connection.

Follow all of the wires looking for some rubbed insulation or a bad connection. Don't forget about the ground side.

 

Do a lot of wiggling and shaking of the wire harness, it is possible to have a break in a wire inside of the insulation with no visible damage to the outside of the wire. Been there chased that one for days.

[saddlebum]

Check the gaurdian bell. Make sure there is no road build up inside the bell from all those dirt roads you love to ride on. The buildup, may be preventing the bell from ringing clearly and reduce its effetiveness.

[reddevilmedic]

i chased lighting issues for 4 months last year. i ran resistors to the LED turns, resoldered the grounds at taillights, repaired a couple of other hacked wires from PO that were from trunk lights, updated fuse block. added a VR bell... i ended up putting stock bulbs back in stoplights. good to go!

[bongobobny]

Bad Ground...

 

 

Or UFO's!

[BradT]

can't get it to repeat.

 

So what you worried about. If it comes back take them all off and problem solved.

 

Brad

[Marcarl]

It did it again,,, this morning of all times, just turned the ignition on, and voila, no LEDs. So did further checking. All incandescents work. I have the front air scoop and the wheel covers with incandescent in them, and they came on. Brakes lights worked, LEDs. Headlight and driving lights worked, also incandescent.

So what doesn't work are the running lights that are LEDs. They are not all grounded together, so I have more than one grounding spot. They are powered from the running light circuit at random, so also not from a central spot.

When I start the bike, they come on right away.

[bongobobny]

Voo Doo...

[Flyinfool]

It did it again,,, this morning of all times, just turned the ignition on, and voila, no LEDs. So did further checking. All incandescents work. I have the front air scoop and the wheel covers with incandescent in them, and they came on. Brakes lights worked, LEDs. Headlight and driving lights worked, also incandescent.

So what doesn't work are the running lights that are LEDs. They are not all grounded together, so I have more than one grounding spot. They are powered from the running light circuit at random, so also not from a central spot.

When I start the bike, they come on right away.

 

Sounds like a good sluthin project for MD. There should be plenty of well lubed minds to put on it...........

 

I'll have my BFH there.....

[GeorgeS]

there is a large plug with about 15 wires going thru it under the passenger section of the seat.

Open it up, and clean it, the black wire is the ground for all or most of the rear lighting.

But if its just your added, LED, lighting, the double check all the Added wireing.

[Thom]

Check your voltage , leds need the prefect voltage , check when they don't work than check when motor is running

[bongobobny]

Maybe Pigmeys...

[Dano]

Dang, guess I got ONE bike to work on when we're at Don's!!!

[spitfire9]

It did it again,,, this morning of all times, just turned the ignition on, and voila, no LEDs. So did further checking. All incandescents work. I have the front air scoop and the wheel covers with incandescent in them, and they came on. Brakes lights worked, LEDs. Headlight and driving lights worked, also incandescent.

So what doesn't work are the running lights that are LEDs. They are not all grounded together, so I have more than one grounding spot. They are powered from the running light circuit at random, so also not from a central spot.

When I start the bike, they come on right away.

 

If they ALL come on as soon as you start the bike, that is the important clue. LED's have a resistor in series in the assembly, often 1Kohm. It could be that at the 12.36V, you are not getting enough current through the resistor to light the LED. (assuming they are 1Kohm). V=Ir, so 12.36=I x 1000ohm, and I=v/r or I= 12.36/1000, or .0124A. A RED LED typically requires somewhere near .02A to light. Probably the resistor is less than 1Kohm, but it may be too high to let enough current through at 12.36V, but come on, and possibly flicker, at 14+V when the engine is running.

 

 

Lets try another way to look at it. R= (Vs-Vl)/I

VS = supply voltage

VL = LED voltage (usually 2V, but 4V for blue and white LEDs)

I = LED current

 

I will assume red for the exercise. (.02A)

R= (12.36-2)/.02

gives R= 10.36/.02 = 518ohms

 

So in order to get the required .02mA to a red LED at 12.36V, the resistor is series should be 518ohms. Thats not a standard amount, but 540ohm is. It has a green, yellow, red stripe. Of course these resisitors may be built into a package with the light, and be unchangable. See if there are specs listed in any literature. White and blue would need 270ohm or similar. If you are reading near 1Kohm, they will probably never be completely reliable at 12V.

 

Hope this helps. FWIW I am an Industrial Electrician by trade.

[KIC]

If they ALL come on as soon as you start the bike, that is the important clue. LED's have a resistor in series in the assembly, often 1Kohm. It could be that at the 12.36V, you are not getting enough current through the resistor to light the LED. (assuming they are 1Kohm). V=Ir, so 12.36=I x 1000ohm, and I=v/r or I= 12.36/1000, or .0124A. A RED LED typically requires somewhere near .02A to light. Probably the resistor is less than 1Kohm, but it may be too high to let enough current through at 12.36V, but come on, and possibly flicker, at 14+V when the engine is running.

 

 

Lets try another way to look at it. R= (Vs-Vl)/I

VS = supply voltage

VL = LED voltage (usually 2V, but 4V for blue and white LEDs)

I = LED current

 

I will assume red for the exercise. (.02A)

 

R= (12.36-2)/.02

gives R= 10.36/.02 = 518ohms

 

So in order to get the required .02mA to a red LED at 12.36V, the resistor is series should be 518ohms. Thats not a standard amount, but 540ohm is. It has a green, yellow, red stripe. Of course these resisitors may be built into a package with the light, and be unchangable. See if there are specs listed in any literature. White and blue would need 270ohm or similar. If you are reading near 1Kohm, they will probably never be completely reliable at 12V.

 

Hope this helps. FWIW I am an Industrial Electrician by trade.

 

Dang.......

[mbrood]

Accessory lighting usually uses a chassis ground or a return wire so grounding should be suspect as they all act the same. The power line needs to be chased down.

 

Those incandescents in the rotor cover REALLY need changed to amber LEDs... the old type can heat up and distort the amber lens... have you seen any of 'those' floating around recently?

Edited May 20, 2012 by mbrood

[Flyinfool]

If they ALL come on as soon as you start the bike, that is the important clue. LED's have a resistor in series in the assembly, often 1Kohm. It could be that at the 12.36V, you are not getting enough current through the resistor to light the LED. (assuming they are 1Kohm). V=Ir, so 12.36=I x 1000ohm, and I=v/r or I= 12.36/1000, or .0124A. A RED LED typically requires somewhere near .02A to light. Probably the resistor is less than 1Kohm, but it may be too high to let enough current through at 12.36V, but come on, and possibly flicker, at 14+V when the engine is running.

 

 

Lets try another way to look at it. R= (Vs-Vl)/I

VS = supply voltage

VL = LED voltage (usually 2V, but 4V for blue and white LEDs)

I = LED current

 

I will assume red for the exercise. (.02A)

R= (12.36-2)/.02

gives R= 10.36/.02 = 518ohms

 

So in order to get the required .02mA to a red LED at 12.36V, the resistor is series should be 518ohms. Thats not a standard amount, but 540ohm is. It has a green, yellow, red stripe. Of course these resisitors may be built into a package with the light, and be unchangable. See if there are specs listed in any literature. White and blue would need 270ohm or similar. If you are reading near 1Kohm, they will probably never be completely reliable at 12V.

 

Hope this helps. FWIW I am an Industrial Electrician by trade.

 

While all of this math is true. The LEDs that come setup for automotive or MC use will light just fine (but less bright) all the way down to about 5V. The 12V LED strips that I use for night flying radio control helies are on a 8.4V battery pack because an 11.1V battery is to bright to look at against a dark night sky.

 

All this meaning, It is not a low voltage issue, you have some bad wiring somewhere.

I'll pack my electrical box for MD. I'm sure that if we get enough of us engineer types working on it, we can screw it up thoroughly.