Big drop in volts/no turn sigs/no start!help

[reddevilmedic]

i do have some nice holes in the end of a couple fingers though!

[twigg]

im not getting any readings at all with r/r test...set to 1 ohm, bike off.

 

The diode tests on the Rectifier are a bit complicated.

 

The manual gives the readings for the stock rectifier, and shows you which terminals to test.

 

Download it from this site if you haven't already.

 

I thought you said you have an aftermarket rectifier. If so the readings may be different, but they should be broadly in line and you can use the stock figures to show any obvious problems.

[reddevilmedic]

The diode tests on the Rectifier are a bit complicated.

 

The manual gives the readings for the stock rectifier, and shows you which terminals to test.

 

Download it from this site if you haven't already.

 

I thought you said you have an aftermarket rectifier. If so the readings may be different, but they should be broadly in line and you can use the stock figures to show any obvious problems.

 

i do have aftermarket, and the test downloaded. im not getting any readings at all from the test. i tried different variables just in case...nothing..

[bkuhr]

meter on x1 ohms

test red and black leads together

meter should swing full left. Adjust thumb screw adjustment to ZERO needle

 

If you have a diode laying around test it both directions see how meter responds

 

You are testing the 3 wires you cut from the stator, except this time the RR side, to the RR big RED and BLACK wires,

Per your senerio (small red and black=meter leads, Big Red and Black= RR big wires)

 

w1-red / RR Red-black read Y/N

w1-black /RR Red-red read Y/N

w2-red / RR Red-black read Y/N

w2-black /RR Red-red read Y/N

w3-red /RR Red-black read Y/N

w3-black/ RR Red-red read Y/N

 

w1-red / RR Black-black read Y/N

w1-black /RR Black-red read Y/N

w2-red / RR Black-black read Y/N

w2-black /RR Black-red read Y/N

w3-red /RR Black-black read Y/N

w3-black/ RR Black-red read Y/N

 

every other SHOULD have a reading, and the opposite SHOULD NOT

[reddevilmedic]

ok..im getting about 110o every other reading...beginning with the very first one. it helps if i put batteries in it....

[twigg]

ok..im getting about 110o every other reading...beginning with the very first one. it helps if i put batteries in it....

 

Can't quite interpret that funny number but ...

 

If you are getting a consistent reading with every other connection, then the chances are good that the diodes are okay.

[reddevilmedic]

Can't quite interpret that funny number but ...

 

If you are getting a consistent reading with every other connection, then the chances are good that the diodes are okay.

 

 

110 ohms. its consistent.

[reddevilmedic]

twigg? just get the stator?

[bkuhr]

Can't quite interpret that funny number but ...

 

If you are getting a consistent reading with every other connection, then the chances are good that the diodes are okay.

 

I agree. As far as can be determined it appears that the rectifier section of the RR is ok, no way to test the regulator section. You need to crack the case and see what is wrong with the stator windings. You may also have other issues such as maybe loose rotor.

[reddevilmedic]

heres a couple pics of stator.

[twigg]

heres a couple pics of stator.

 

That is not a pretty sight.

 

I wonder what caused it ... any ideas?

[reddevilmedic]

That is not a pretty sight.

 

I wonder what caused it ... any ideas?

 

 

no idea! nothing was loose....the big, black blob is where the end of the windings were twisted together and pushed inbetween the coils. doubt that had anything to do with it though...

[Flyinfool]

OUCH!

I do not know what would cause half of the stator to cook like that.

If it was a short in one winding it would take out every third coil all the way around.

The only thing I can think of is, the stator is cooled by engine oil that comes out the center of the flywheel that somehow that cooling oil was blocked from getting to that half of the stator.

[reddevilmedic]

OUCH!

I do not know what would cause half of the stator to cook like that.

If it was a short in one winding it would take out every third coil all the way around.

The only thing I can think of is, the stator is cooled by engine oil that comes out the center of the flywheel that somehow that cooling oil was blocked from getting to that half of the stator.

 

all of the coils are covered in oil....

[Squeeze]

There's a small Bore (1mm Diameter) inside the Bolt which holds the Flywheel on the Crank Shaft. Inside the Bolt is a Wire. This was an early Upgrade on the 1Gen Ventures, called Stator Colling Kit.

 

I'm not saying your isn't there or the Hole is blocked, but you better take look at it before you get the new Stator installed.

[reddevilmedic]

There's a small Bore (1mm Diameter) inside the Bolt which holds the Flywheel on the Crank Shaft. Inside the Bolt is a Wire. This was an early Upgrade on the 1Gen Ventures, called Stator Colling Kit.

 

I'm not saying your isn't there or the Hole is blocked, but you better take look at it before you get the new Stator installed.

 

 

mine DOES have the cooling kit. i will check the small hole too, thanks.

[Squeeze]

Can't see it in the Pics, is the burned Area in the upper or the lower Area when mounted ?

[reddevilmedic]

here ya go.

[Squeeze]

So, a third of the upper Area doesn't look bad but from there on all the Way around even where Lots of Oil is.

 

I don't think Stator Cooling is the Problem here. Check the Bore in the Bolt anyway, but i venture to guess that's Ok.

[Keemez]

I increased the diameter of that oil hole very slightly when I did my starter clutch mod. I figured a little extry oil flow certainly wouldn't hurt anything.

 

Original vs. drilled:

[Squeeze]

You gotta see, you're reducing Oil Flow on the Crank Bearings by creating a larger Hole. It may not make much of Difference on the a normally riden Venture, but, especially on a hot ridding Bike or a Vmax, i for one wouldn't do that. We need all the Lubrication where it belongs to, and that's the Main Bearings.

[Keemez]

Yup, I do realize that. I generally don't ride it all that hard (rarely above 5K rpm), so I'm not too worried about it. There oughta be enough oil slinging around everywhere to provide adequate lube. Done at least 2 oil changes since that hole and haven't seen anything unusual (such as metal hunks, bearing rollers, connecting rods, wrist pins, etc.) floating around so I reckon I'm safe... so far.

I did notice a new "noise" that wasn't there before the whole series of procedures (starter clutch mod, oil passage enlargement, valve clearance ck, motor out of frame for all of the above & serious cleaning/degreasing, etc.) was complete. Between gears, mostly on moderate to heavy-ish accel when the engine is wound up good over say 4000, I can hear a somewhat metallic sounding ... uhhh, "sound" (???) as the engine drops in revs. It sounds quite a bit like when the wastegate on a turbo is blowing off extra squeeze... a cross between pneumatic release and a slight metallic rattle to it too. Part of me wondered if it was that little "special washer" under the stator cover- maybe getting nudged up against something as a result of more oil flow toward or against it (?). You'd have to hear it- it's a little difficult to describe accurately. Only happens during moderate to heavy accel, during the upshift when the clutch lever is pulled in. I'm nearing 10000 miles since all that work was done and nothing has let go, so I can't imagine it's anything serious.

Hmm. Didn't mean to hijack this thread. Just general conversation & mild mind-probing.

[bkuhr]

Not sure if it would make any differance, but gotta ask

 

Do you have a matched stator and rectifier?

Meaning do have upgraded stator and stock RR?

[reddevilmedic]

Not sure if it would make any differance, but gotta ask

 

Do you have a matched stator and rectifier?

Meaning do have upgraded stator and stock RR?

 

 

upgraded both. stator and r/r, at same time.

[bkuhr]

There's a small Bore (1mm Diameter) inside the Bolt which holds the Flywheel on the Crank Shaft. Inside the Bolt is a Wire. This was an early Upgrade on the 1Gen Ventures, called Stator Colling Kit.

 

I'm not saying your isn't there or the Hole is blocked, but you better take look at it before you get the new Stator installed.

 

:sign yeah that:I agree, other than electrical overload (discuss in a minute) only thing I can think of to cause stator to burn, is lack of cooling.

 

Attached pic of OEM directions for install of cooling kit. The wire inside the flywheel bolt hole should be felt within 1/4-1/8" with a small wire pressed into hole. This wire is to prevent clogging of the hole in the bolt. Second, and very important, is a washer shaped plate installed 'around' the bolt and closing up the area around the rotor. Directions show how should be attached. Make sure your cooling kit is properly installed.

 

As for electrical overload. Stock charging system is rated at max 26 amps. Not sure what upgraded system is rated for, but OE regulator is a shunt regulator, in that at all times ALL excess amps from the stator is sent to ground. The load of the bike plus ALL the reserve of the stator equals the max 26A from the stator. This means that the stator is running 100% all the time with out a break. (actually all this applies above about 1800 rpm, below rpm then less amps produced). I believe the recommended upgraded stator and RR also works the same way.

 

Now a problem I could see, In 1983 a bunch of 26A stators were burned out, so Yami developed the oil cooling kit which cooled the 26A enough to prevent burnout. Now a upgraded stator is being used for ~30-50A(I dont know rating), maybe the cooling system designed is not sufficient.

 

If this is a true issue (i not sure), I see 2 options

1. go back to OE 26A stator&RR

2. Find series type regulator which will allow stator to only produce the Amps that are actually needed. There was another thread in discussion about this.

 

No matter you choice, I would recommend you get and "clamp style" amp meter. While waiting for parts learn to use the meter. When you are back together, you would clamp around the white stator wires to actually measure amps from the stator, which is way different than amps to the battery. If running more than OE 26A, I would be worried about burnout again.

 

LET THE DISCUSSION BEGIN