TCI Problems

[Mike Mercury]

I wouldn't change plugs, I am travelling with old TCI and very happy with this choose and play system, alternate system is the way to go.

 

Mike

[Dragonslayer]

I wouldn't change plugs, I am travelling with old TCI and very happy with this choose and play system, alternate system is the way to go.

 

Mike

I had to find out so I cut the small plug out and straight wired to TCI adapter harnes. Then went for a test ride.

The acceleration was noticeble improved at low range and still stumbleing a little bit on mid to high range acceration between 3500 and 4500 rpm. But, not as bad as before.

The upload of the Vmax old venture V88 program to the TCI as Dingy suggested made the drop out of engine/Tach problem go away.

I guess I'll go ahead and cut out the large plug to see if that will stop high end stumble.

[bkuhr]

I had to find out so I cut the small plug out and straight wired to TCI adapter harnes. Then went for a test ride.

 

The acceleration was noticeble improved at low range and still stumbleing a little bit on mid to high range acceration between 3500 and 4500 rpm. But, not as bad as before.

 

The upload of the Vmax old venture V88 program to the TCI as Dingy suggested made the drop out of engine/Tach problem go away.

 

I guess I'll go ahead and cut out the large plug to see if that will stop high end stumble.

 

Go to the advance map and select 2D. Guesstimate % of throttle you have applied at the 3500-4500 stumble. Find that point on the map and drag to a couple degrees higher advance. Hit program, then go for another ride and evaluate the change.

 

Example: stumble felt during hard takeoff using ~30% throttle near 3500 rpm.

find the 30% and 3200 point and drag it from 43 to 45 deg advance. Screen shot attached.

 

This is the way to fine tune for your machine.

[dingy]

I experienced the TCI dropout yesterday first hand. Didn't post till today because I was wanted to find a set of pick up coils I had & devise a plan to narrow down root cause of failure.

 

Road about 140 miles yesterday, within the 1st 5 miles, I had 3 dropouts, and that was it, no other dropouts the rest of the day. I did not see if the tach dropped at the same time on any of them. The best way I can describe this dropout is as though the TCI completely shut down for about a half second.

 

I did notice later in day that the tach did drop out one time that I happened to see, but with no dropout in the power. This leads me to believe that there is either a pickup coil issue or poor connections somewhere in the related circuits. The reason I say this is that if it were the TCI, it would be a multiple failure scenario in order to get the 2 different conditions. The same reasoning does hold true for any other cause, but I want to try and rule them out 1 at a time.

 

I have a new exact replacement for the pickup coil connection. I am going to borrow a crimp tool tomorrow & as a 1st course of action replace this connection.

 

Due to the very sporadic nature of this problem, I don't have a clue as to say how long before I decide if that fixed it, if ever. I do know if it drops out again, as a plan B, I will replace the pickup coils with a spare set I have. I have a stator cover gasket on hand.

 

Plan C, will be to eliminate the adapter harness for the TCI. I have an extra cable end for the TCI plug.

 

I am not sure if the TCI is blameless or not. In one way, it is very suspect, as I have not heard of this problem with any of the V80 units I resold, nor any of the older V75's. Ignitech's statement that the 2 units function the same is somewhat meaningless as this is a revised version of the previous releases. There are many electronic issues that will not show up under standard testing. My company is going through many of these problems right now as we try to introduce new PC board equipped products to the market.

 

Any suggestions as to other courses of targeted testing/component replacement are welcome.

 

I do not believe until we have eliminated any existing component problem possibilities that Ignitech will admit any culpability.

 

On a related note, the single pickup coil equipped unit that I had a programming problem is on its way back to me. It failed and left the member with a no start condition. He replaced stock unit & it started. I intend to put it in mine when it arrives to see if it functions as a 4 pickup setup.

 

I really am trying to get this issue resolved, it is very much a concern that I to me, due my involvement with this project and using one.

 

Gary

[bkuhr]

I experienced the TCI dropout yesterday first hand. Didn't post till today because I was wanted to find a set of pick up coils I had & devise a plan to narrow down root cause of failure.

 

Road about 140 miles yesterday, within the 1st 5 miles, I had 3 dropouts, and that was it, no other dropouts the rest of the day. I did not see if the tach dropped at the same time on any of them. The best way I can describe this dropout is as though the TCI completely shut down for about a half second.

 

I did notice later in day that the tach did drop out one time that I happened to see, but with no dropout in the power. This leads me to believe that there is either a pickup coil issue or poor connections somewhere in the related circuits. The reason I say this is that if it were the TCI, it would be a multiple failure scenario in order to get the 2 different conditions. The same reasoning does hold true for any other cause, but I want to try and rule them out 1 at a time.

 

I have a new exact replacement for the pickup coil connection. I am going to borrow a crimp tool tomorrow & as a 1st course of action replace this connection.

 

Due to the very sporadic nature of this problem, I don't have a clue as to say how long before I decide if that fixed it, if ever. I do know if it drops out again, as a plan B, I will replace the pickup coils with a spare set I have. I have a stator cover gasket on hand.

 

Plan C, will be to eliminate the adapter harness for the TCI. I have an extra cable end for the TCI plug.

 

I am not sure if the TCI is blameless or not. In one way, it is very suspect, as I have not heard of this problem with any of the V80 units I resold, nor any of the older V75's. Ignitech's statement that the 2 units function the same is somewhat meaningless as this is a revised version of the previous releases. There are many electronic issues that will not show up under standard testing. My company is going through many of these problems right now as we try to introduce new PC board equipped products to the market.

 

Any suggestions as to other courses of targeted testing/component replacement are welcome.

 

I do not believe until we have eliminated any existing component problem possibilities that Ignitech will admit any culpability.

 

On a related note, the single pickup coil equipped unit that I had a programming problem is on its way back to me. It failed and left the member with a no start condition. He replaced stock unit & it started. I intend to put it in mine when it arrives to see if it functions as a 4 pickup setup.

 

I really am trying to get this issue resolved, it is very much a concern that I to me, due my involvement with this project and using one.

 

Gary

 

Gary, first see if you can duplicate dropout- run same route, same agressivness, same outside temp....etc

 

If you can pin down a spot you can duplicate, I suggest you back out v88 software and load v80. I am suspecting problem with IAP option. If v80 works reload v88, but change IAP to TPS running MAP. Then try run with TPS running TPS.

[dingy]

Gary, first see if you can duplicate dropout- run same route, same agressivness, same outside temp....etc

 

If you can pin down a spot you can duplicate, I suggest you back out v88 software and load v80. I am suspecting problem with IAP option. If v80 works reload v88, but change IAP to TPS running MAP. Then try run with TPS running TPS.

 

Nothing at all unusual about route, all three times it appeared to be in the 3800~4200 RPM range. Isolated tach dropout was in that RPM range as well.

 

It was within 5 miles of when I left house, so possibly bike was not fully warm. But this was exactly the same route I have taken to work on the bike for the past week, with nothing similar happening and all three occurred prior to work site. It was fairly warm, about 75~80. Morning temps are in 50's. TCI is located in left fairing pocket so I don't think motor temp is related.

 

The IAP suggestion sounds like a prime candidate since that was a major change to this module.

 

Maybe if Bob (AtlantaDragonslayer) made this change to his unit it would help with parallel test paths. I know he has a capable of it as he has a cable and able to reprogram unit.

 

I can swap mine over tomorrow & post the needed settings in the TPS sensor window. They will differ from the V80 units due to I had put a resistor in TPS lead in the V80's to get readings down below 2.5V. This was a carry over from my experience with the V75. Turned out not to be required though. Ignitech had removed the 2.5v threshold on the V80 setting window.

 

Gary

[Mike Mercury]

Hey Gary,

 

I sent Ignitech TCI via Canada Snail Post, you should get it by early next week, so they tell me. Before sending to you this morning, I tried again the problem unit and although it fire for a few milli-seconds to light up, just kept turning with mo results, this week-end 500km through NY and Vermont, with original TCI and again 300km today with-out a glitch.

 

I must admit the Ignitech unit seemed to work cleaner, crisper, with more power and better fuel economy, so I hope the problem will be found and settled soon.

 

Mike

[Ozlander]

Gary,

I rode a couple of hundred miles Sunday in 90* weather with no problems. I thought I saw the tach needle flicker one time, but it could have been my glasses and I wasn't really looking. Mine is mounted in the original location and with the air dams in place.

I didn't have any problems with the old TCI, so I think the coils and other associated parts are good.

 

[bongobobny]

Me thinks it's either a secret military project or UFO's causing the problem...

 

 

 

Hey, somebody had to throw in a little comic releif!

[frankd]

Gary,

 

I know you suspect the new ignition module, but is there a chance that there is a different problem? The reason I say this is that 3 years ago when I bought my 89, it only had 30,000 miles on the clock. In fact the PO had bought it from a dealer with 23K, 8 months prior, so she obviously slept for a lot of years. On the test ride, she ran perfectly, but when I took it for a ride after I got it home, she died when I came to a stop. She restarted fine, and finished the ride. This was late November, so I winterized it and it sat until spring. Then next spring, I was riding down the interstate, and decided to turn the cruise control on. When I pushed the power button, the bike went dead, the tach went to zero, and the cruise green light did not come on---then about 2 seconds later, everything came back to life. I dug out the print and saw that the cruise power flows through the "KILL" switch. I excercised the Kill switch and have not had the problem again. I regulary use the the KILL switch, especially when my wife is with me, so the contacts have remained clean (I hit the kill switch to stop the motor, and then after she gets off, I turn the key off). It will be very easy to tell if you are also having this problem---turn you cruise control ON and watch if the green light goes out when the bike goes dead. A lot of riders never use the kill switch, and if you are one of those, maybe it's time to rock it back and forth a bit.

 

Frank

[GaryZ]

Gary,

 

My experience has been drop-outs around 3200 rpm, same for tach drop-out. My stream of logic says a poor connection would not be this specific and consistent.

 

I am inclined to believe there is a program error or glitch.

[frankd]

Gary Z.

 

Actually, I was suggesting this to the other Gary (Dingy). His gave the the impressoin that he could be losing 12V power to the new TCI, and an intermittant contact in the KILL switch was doing this to mine. Yours doesn't sound like this. Good luck on finding the problem!!!!

 

Frank

[twigg]

Gary Z.

 

Actually, I was suggesting this to the other Gary (Dingy). His gave the the impressoin that he could be losing 12V power to the new TCI, and an intermittant contact in the KILL switch was doing this to mine. Yours doesn't sound like this. Good luck on finding the problem!!!!

 

Frank

 

It's too regular and predictable to be the Kill switch.

 

Mine runs perfectly, for many hundreds of miles with the OEM TCI. Switch to the new one and the problem appears.

[reddevilmedic]

he said you had to exercise the kill switch...so take it for a walk....ba ba bum....:rotf:more comic relief....

[twigg]

he said you had to exercise the kill switch...so take it for a walk....ba ba bum....:rotf:more comic relief....

 

Don't you have a stator to replace?

 

:rotf:

[mraf]

I agree mine hiccups at 3200. Full cutout seemed to happen at the 4000 to 4200 range. Tach cutout anytime with no noticeable engine rpm drop. With more than one bike doing these symptoms it does seem to be a program error or glitch. Hope I'm wrong and it can be fixed with a re-program. Has anyone tried that yet?

[Mike Mercury]

It took me 2 months to get my new V88 TCI version working (thanks to Gary), changed program from VR 90-93 if I remember, to new vmax V88, to V80 new venture, to new V80 new Max(I got confused after a few times) and finally worked on I believe V80 new venture, and when started downloaded new version V88????

 

After 3 small rides it went kaputt and never got it to started again.

 

Mike

[dingy]

After swapping some messages with BKuhr last night, I swapped the program out in my V88 unit to the V80 version I was using last year. I used the TPS option instead of the IAP. When the older version IGN file is loaded, only the user adjustable settings are uploaded into the current firmware in the module. A V80 version of the software will not work with the V88 hardware. The IAP option is still there, as it is hard coded into the TCI, but it can not used. Other 2 options are TPS & none.

 

On my bike I used 3.2V to 0% TPS & 4.2v for 100% TPS. Screen shot attached.

 

Previous post questioned if any one had put different program in bike. Posts #12 & #27 address this, which has been done by at least one person.

 

Took bike out and rode about 20 miles with no dropouts. This is not validating this fix at all. I had about 250 miles on bike so far this year and only had 3 dropouts within minutes of each other Sunday.

 

I still have some other issues to address with bikes running. Going to go back to a more stock version of the mufflers. With the Marks collector on, it is to loud for me.

 

Also getting a popping in exhaust tone. I am going to pull the carbs & replace the 8 rubber joints to the VBoost unit & the head~intake o-rings in the next day or so. I have the new parts here, just been avoiding pulling carbs. Not real easy with Vboost on. The bike is getting a slight increase in idle when I shoot ether around intakes, I know about downside of using ether, but I prefer it over other options. Also idle is not steady, so I have other issues beside TCI.

 

I really need the bike running smoother to help notice any variations from the TCI.

 

Gary

[GaryZ]

Gary,

I have another symptom. When steady cruise around 3200 rpm the bike sorta stumbles, surges, etc. Imagine how your bike would feel if a wheel bearing was beginning to gall. Shifting to a higher gear drops the rpm and the symptom disappears. This symptom is not intermittent, it is always there.

Edited May 9, 2012 by GaryZ

[bkuhr]

Gary,

I have another symptom. When steady cruise around 3200 rpm the bike sorta stumbles, surges, etc. Image how your bike would feel if a wheel bearing was beginning to gall. Shifting to a higher gear drops the rpm and the symptom disappears. This symptom is not intermittent, it is always there.

 

Garyz, I see you have the big vmax cams. I would suspect your ignition map needs a little bit of adjustment. If you are able to get into the programming, you could advance your timing a few degrees around 3200rpm & 10-20% throttle or IAP(cruise)

[dingy]

Garyz, I see you have the big vmax cams. I would suspect your ignition map needs a little bit of adjustment. If you are able to get into the programming, you could advance your timing a few degrees around 3200rpm & 10-20% throttle or IAP(cruise)

He has the VMax curve in his TCI.

 

Gary

[Dragonslayer]

Me thinks it's either a secret military project or UFO's causing the problem...

 

 

 

Hey, somebody had to throw in a little comic releif!

Or maybe Sun spots

[Dragonslayer]

Nothing at all unusual about route, all three times it appeared to be in the 3800~4200 RPM range. Isolated tach dropout was in that RPM range as well.

 

It was within 5 miles of when I left house, so possibly bike was not fully warm. But this was exactly the same route I have taken to work on the bike for the past week, with nothing similar happening and all three occurred prior to work site. It was fairly warm, about 75~80. Morning temps are in 50's. TCI is located in left fairing pocket so I don't think motor temp is related.

 

The IAP suggestion sounds like a prime candidate since that was a major change to this module.

 

Maybe if Bob (AtlantaDragonslayer) made this change to his unit it would help with parallel test paths. I know he has a capable of it as he has a cable and able to reprogram unit.

 

I can swap mine over tomorrow & post the needed settings in the TPS sensor window. They will differ from the V80 units due to I had put a resistor in TPS lead in the V80's to get readings down below 2.5V. This was a carry over from my experience with the V75. Turned out not to be required though. Ignitech had removed the 2.5v threshold on the V80 setting window.

 

Gary

The tach/engine drop out has seemed to go away since I uploaded the VMAX old VentureV88.IGN program to th TCI.

 

The high range acceleration stumble and surge has decreased significatly since I cut out the quick connect plugs and straight wired to the TCI adapter cable.

 

However, the gas mileage problem does not seemed to have improved any.

[GaryZ]

Garyz, I see you have the big vmax cams. I would suspect your ignition map needs a little bit of adjustment. If you are able to get into the programming, you could advance your timing a few degrees around 3200rpm & 10-20% throttle or IAP(cruise)

 

Dingy delivered my TCI with Vmax programming.

Do you think more adjustment is needed?

 

BTW:

Another symptom is reduced gas mileage . . . Down from 30mpg in town to around 28.

[bkuhr]

Dingy delivered my TCI with Vmax programming.

Do you think more adjustment is needed?

 

BTW:

Another symptom is reduced gas mileage . . . Down from 30mpg in town to around 28.

 

Yes,

For the most part, ignition maps were made (by us) to try to simulate the written maps that could be located in the books, which, at best would be a replacement for OE. No promise that the map even matches what the OE TCI did. Other than the current cutout glitch, which appears to be related to v88 IAP option, temporay corrected by loading old v80 maps, I think Gary and Todd, and Tim did great work creating maps that would work as well as they do. Now that we have programmable units, we have the opportunity to fine tune units to our bikes. For those who are willing to play with the programming, changes of just a couple of degrees advance at noticable trouble spots will likely make a world of differance overall, and when a great map is created, it can be shared to others with simular setups.