TCI Problems

[Dragonslayer]

Not realizing a smooth running acceration and decent Gas mileage since installing the new programmable TCI I decide to plug the old TCI back in and compare the performance between the old and the new.

 

1st I just plugged the old TCI in with the new map sensor still hooked up with vacumn tube to the #1 Intake boot port but electrically not hooked up. Leaving the tank cover off, I go for test ride to auto parts store. It seemed to run about the same as the new programmable TCI. So I'm thinking the problem is not related to the TCI Old or New.

 

But as I was leaving the auto parts store the bike began backfiring, bogging down then shut off and would not recrank.WTF:confused24: So, I'm sitting on the side of the road for about thirty minutes scratching my head, trying to get the bike to crank and worrying about a two mile up hill push home. Then I noticed the orange wire on the 6 pin plug to TCI is hanging 1/2 way out of the plastic plug. I push in all the way in and the bike cranks.

 

So then I get on the highway to run the bike at highway speeds for a few exits and back. On the xway it runs about the same as the new TCI maybe a little better. But, before I could get back home on three occassions while at a traffic light the bike starts bogging down again and backfiring. After wiggling wires it straightens out.

 

When I get home I wire in the leads to the old TPS into the new 8 pin plug so I can switch back and forth from the old TCI/TPS configuration to the new TCI/MAP Sensor configuration and unplug tube from Map sensor to intake boot and hook up tube from TPS to port.

 

While doing this I notice that the pins inside both the 8 pin plug and the six pin plug are not all bottomed out indicating that the pins are not securely locked inside the new plastic plugs. I'm thinking INTERMITTEN WIRE CONNECTION FAILURE WITHIN THE QUICK CONNECT PLUGS

 

On several occassions since I've owned the bike over the past 10 years poor performance and gas mileage has been traced back to bad electrical connections of the quick connect plugs to the TCI. Numerous other problems resulted from bad connections in multiple other quick connect plugs. I just dont trust quick connect plugs anymore.

 

So, I took some small needle nose pliers and make sure all of the wires are pushed in all the way on the TCI plugs and take a ride around the neighborhood. The acceration was quicker and more responsive than I ever remember it being and the bike litterly flies.

 

Next I'm going to take a longer test ride on xway to see if my theory holds up and the gas mileage improves.

[bkuhr]

Good job tracking this issue down. Could be cause of problems some others are having.

[dingy]

Did you replace the harness end connectors with the new ones I sent ?

 

Which end was a problem, adapter harness or bike harness end ?

 

Gary

[Dragonslayer]

Did you replace the harness end connectors with the new ones I sent ?

 

Which end was a problem, adapter harness or bike harness end ?

 

Gary

Yes I did, the bike harness end.

[Dragonslayer]

So,

I went for a xway test ride this morning with the old TCI/TPS config and the bike hauled A** with little hesitation on hard acceleration. It ran a lot better but still stumbled a little bid at high speed.

 

Got home and hooked the new programable TCI/Map Sensor config back up making sure all of the connection pins were pushed up in the plug. Took another test ride and it ran and stumbled about the same.

 

Which all leads me to believe that the problem is not in the TCI old or new. It seems like at hard acceration and high speed an electrical connection is breaking down causing it to hesitate and stumble.

 

Next I'm going to change the plugs and fuel filter to eliminate them as possible contributors to the problem. Then see what happens.

 

I'm leaning toward cutting the quick connect plugs out of the TCI harness altogether and hard wiring or soldering the wires together to the TCI Plug. Which should eliminate any connection problems at the quick connect plugs.

 

Any other second opinions?

[EnJay]

I was just about to pull the trigger on ordering an IgniTech TCI when I saw this thread. I’ve been having problems with intermittent spark on cylinders 3 & 4 at low rpm to the point where she will only idle with the choke on. I never had spark problems before so I just recently pulled out my TCI and did all the resistance testing and connection cleaning. So far all the tests seem to be pointing at a bad TCI. When I was cleaning the connections, I couldn’t help noticing how easy the male ends of the quick connect was to clean, but there’s really no good way (that I can think of) to thoroughly clean or even tighten the female side. I have to believe after 28 years of engine heat and vibration, those connectors in there have to of loosened up a bit. I was also considering hard soldering all the quick connects. I replaced all the diodes and the transistors on my TCI, put it all back together and still have the same intermittent spark problem.

 

So here’s my idea. I noticed the male tangs on the TCI are almost an exact fit for a female disconnect (a crimp-on type wire terminal). I happened to have a box of fully insulated female disconnects so I decided to try them on for size, they fit perfect, nice and tight. See the attached picture. I’m thinking of cutting the two Yamaha quick disconnects off, soldering on about a 6” pigtail on each wire, insulating the solder connections with heat shrink, crimping on the fully insulated female disconnects, and connecting each one to the TCI individually. I would also want to do something similar to the quick connect that handles the pickup coils.

 

As I said before, I was just “thinking” about doing it. But after reading this thread, I may actually go for it.

[Dragonslayer]

I replaced the fuel filter and found the old one in pretty bad shape.I'm somewhat ashamed I didn't do that sooner. The old one was completely black and there was evidence of hardened varnish on the bottom of the filter bowl.

 

Changed the spark plugs out. All of the old ones had the same dry gray appearence of the electrode.

 

Another test ride , The speed and responsiveness was much improved but it still seems to stumble a little bid at high speed.

 

I'm going to run this tank out to see if fuel consumption is improved any before I cut out the plugs.

Edited April 30, 2012 by Dragonslayer

[bkuhr]

You could start making small adjustments to the advance curve in the Ingitech TCI. That was one of the great benefits was that it was programmable.

 

At what RPM and what % throttle roll(estimate of bar1 sensor), does it feel 'sluggish'.

 

Open the software and find that point on the graph and move it a little-increase advance or decrease advance (no more that 2-3 deg advance change) then hit program, then take back out for a ride,better-going right direction, worse-going wrong direction with the advance. One you start to get thinks real close, You may start to notice other spots in a run that could use a little improvement. ie as an example:fast takeoff may feel a burp, equate to high rpm maybe ~4000, high throttle~75%, and adjust that point on the chart.

[mraf]

Watching and waiting for a cure. I went through my connections again but have to wait for better weather for testing.

[frankd]

Yes, you could replace the plug with individual terminals, but there are other ways to restore the connections as well. You could take a new male connector and plug it into the females on the connector and see how tight the females are. You'll probaby find they are fine. However after all of this time they are oxidized. You could spray the connectors with some contact cleaner (one that is easily available is Radio shack Catalog #: 64-4338) and then sliding the connectors on and off the TCI about 5 times. Then put some dielectric grease on the male pins. I'd think this would be a lot easier than replacing the terminals.

 

 

Frank D.

[Dragonslayer]

I have not cut the quick connect plugs out yet but the ride to work and back today felt like I was back to where I started.

 

Still guzzeling gas 1/2 tank = 50 miles

Tach and engine still dropping out at between 4K and 4.5 K RPM

still hesitating and stumbleing on hard acceration before it picks up and goes.

 

Does anyone have any other ideas before I cut the quick connect plugs out?

[dingy]

For something to try, I would upload Ignitech stock program into the TCI to eliminate any timing variations I did.

 

This is on the CD I sent you under the Ignitech Supplied Files directory. You want to use the v-max old venture V88 file. Don't try the v-max new v88 as it is for a single pickup coil 90-93 bike.

 

Gary

 

I have not cut the quick connect plugs out yet but the ride to work and back today felt like I was back to where I started.

 

Still guzzeling gas 1/2 tank = 50 miles

Tach and engine still dropping out at between 4K and 4.5 K RPM

still hesitating and stumbleing on hard acceration before it picks up and goes.

 

Does anyone have any other ideas before I cut the quick connect plugs out?

[van avery]

If the bike is running rich you might try the shims that Skydoc17 sells for the carb sliders. Help on the MPG on my 87. Just a thought.

[twigg]

If the bike is running rich you might try the shims that Skydoc17 sells for the carb sliders. Help on the MPG on my 87. Just a thought.

 

Okay ... I just did this.

 

There has been an ongoing improvement with my gas mileage.

 

When I first fitted the auxilary gas tank I did a test run. The main tan ran dry at 175 miles, and I switched to aux.

 

More recently, I did a bit more carb work and on a steady 65mph ish cruise across the Oklahoma Panhandle I got 195 miles before the main tank ran dry.

 

Last week I fitted skydocs shim kit.

 

Yesterday, at a steady 65mph ish running I 44 back from Brady, TX, the main tank ran 223 miles before it ran dry and I switched to auxiliary.

 

That was 43 miles per gallon, on a bike pretty decently loaded with everything I need for LD Rallying.

 

On that basis I have a range of about 420 miles!

 

All this is on the factory TCI .... waiting for a fix on the other.

[mraf]

bump

[weldertigger]

Does anyone have a wiring schematic for the first gen, TCI box?

[bkuhr]

here ya go

[Dragonslayer]

Okay ... I just did this.

 

There has been an ongoing improvement with my gas mileage.

 

When I first fitted the auxilary gas tank I did a test run. The main tan ran dry at 175 miles, and I switched to aux.

 

More recently, I did a bit more carb work and on a steady 65mph ish cruise across the Oklahoma Panhandle I got 195 miles before the main tank ran dry.What work did you do to the carbs?

 

Last week I fitted skydocs shim kit. I'd like to know more about this shim kit

 

Yesterday, at a steady 65mph ish running I 44 back from Brady, TX, the main tank ran 223 miles before it ran dry and I switched to auxiliary.

 

That was 43 miles per gallon, on a bike pretty decently loaded with everything I need for LD Rallying.

 

On that basis I have a range of about 420 miles!

All this is on the factory TCI .... waiting for a fix on the other.

That's my mission to find out why I'm not getting that kind of MPG

[dingy]

Below is reply I got from Ignitech today about TCI dropping out. About what I expected, if not a little more from them. Pictures are just about going to be impossible, i know.

 

I have put about a 100 miles on mine with out a sign of the problem.

 

One of the points I would think could be a possible suspect is the 6 pin connector that comes from the pickup coils in the Stator housing and connect to the main harness. 6 pin connector with one blank space. I suspect this connection may be the source for many of the stock TCI issues. I helped a member in Columbus OH, last year and this connection was full of grity like sand. After it was cleaned out bike started and ran decent.

 

One of the tidbits about the Ignitech is they manipulate the pickup coils by running only 2 leads into the TCI instead of the stock 4. I had a VMax guy that bought my V80 unit and I knew it ran fine, but we had a heck of a time with it on the VMAx. He finnally pulled the stator cover and one of the pickups was loose and damaged. He replaced the pickups and bike is running as it should. His initial reason for getting the ignitech was a low performing #3 cylinder, which is a very common complaint.

 

Wiring diagram for the pickup coil attached below, both 1 & 4 version. Also a few pictures of connector. It is located near the shock damper adjuster on left side.

 

Gary

 

Gary

 

 

Hello

 

Colleague has tested units version 80 and 88 he haven’t found any problems and both version work the same way.

Could you or your customers make some videos photos etc.

 

Regards

 

Jan Matous

Ignitech s.r.o.

Edited May 4, 2012 by dingy

[bkuhr]

One of the tidbits about the Ignitech is they manipulate the pickup coils by running only 2 leads into the TCI instead of the stock 4.

 

Gary, wonder if we remove the adapter harness jumpers combining coils?

[dingy]

Gary, wonder if we remove the adapter harness jumpers combining coils?

 

I doubt it, if it were a case of removing them, then the possibility of this connector would then be a lower probability of being the cause. Other words, if the coils jumpers are redundant, then the TCI would be less likely to fail. I think they may be reading the trailing edge of the lobe as it passes the TCI pickup and using that collapse of the field in the program logic.

 

But until proven it doesn't help it would be an interesting experiment that I can't see causing harm for a short duration test.

 

Gary

[Mike Mercury]

After working with Gary to get my new Ignitech TCI working on my 91 VR, I was happy with the initial results, crisper accelerations, no more backfire when cold or deceleration, a total of 3 small rides of about 100 km each, on third trip after a 30 minutes run, a stop for coffee at Tim Horton, we leave and after 1 kilometer, puffing and bucking then no more motor, after 5 minutes checking gas valve and putting on reserve, start up and ran 500 feet and stop, 3 more start and die, but I made it to a gas station, removed Ignitech TCI, installed original TCI with original vacuum and ran to home 60 km away, without any problems.

 

Its a good thing I kept TCI and vacuum connection available, otherwise it would of been towing time.

 

Mike

[GeorgeS]

Hmmmm ?? This is all verrrrrry interessssting, as they say. !!

 

Thats why, I have a 2nd TCI, wired up on my bike, and can simply switch cables, if the original goes south !! But so far have not needed it.

 

But , I had to fabricate cables to the #2 unit. Takes, about 5 min. to swap.

 

However, I hope the New Unit finally gets worked out, but its sounding like the supplier of this Retrofit, has made some mistakes. !! If several folks are haveing problems with it. :whistling:

[bkuhr]

After working with Gary to get my new Ignitech TCI working on my 91 VR, I was happy with the initial results, crisper accelerations, no more backfire when cold or deceleration, a total of 3 small rides of about 100 km each, on third trip after a 30 minutes run, a stop for coffee at Tim Horton, we leave and after 1 kilometer, puffing and bucking then no more motor, after 5 minutes checking gas valve and putting on reserve, start up and ran 500 feet and stop, 3 more start and die, but I made it to a gas station, removed Ignitech TCI, installed original TCI with original vacuum and ran to home 60 km away, without any problems.

 

Its a good thing I kept TCI and vacuum connection available, otherwise it would of been towing time.

 

Mike

wonder if can be restarted with ingitech. Maybe overheat problem and cooled down. If can be restarted, would be great if can provide screen shots of all the tabs while running.

[Dragonslayer]

After working with Gary to get my new Ignitech TCI working on my 91 VR, I was happy with the initial results, crisper accelerations, no more backfire when cold or deceleration, a total of 3 small rides of about 100 km each, on third trip after a 30 minutes run, a stop for coffee at Tim Horton, we leave and after 1 kilometer, puffing and bucking then no more motor, after 5 minutes checking gas valve and putting on reserve, start up and ran 500 feet and stop, 3 more start and die, but I made it to a gas station, removed Ignitech TCI, installed original TCI with original vacuum and ran to home 60 km away, without any problems.

 

Its a good thing I kept TCI and vacuum connection available, otherwise it would of been towing time.

 

Mike

This is why I haven't cut the plugs out yet just in case I need to hook the old TCI up. I'm now thinking about leaving the female plug in the wire harness and direct wire to the new TCI adapter cable. But, i'm gonna try a couple of things first.