Engine dies when shifting, cranks for long time before starting

[Seaking]

Before you go get a new fuel pump spend a few dollars and get a guage,T,and hose and hook a fuel guage in so you can eliminate the pump I would not even suspect the pump of doing what yall describe because it would try to die as it ran lean before shutting down (totally different symptoms) to start with..

 

Jeff

 

The reason the fuel pump is suspected due the symptoms experienced is that the fuel pump will not fail 'gradually' but literally instantaneously, in this case. This is what happened to mine a few years ago. Basically the very same thing the OP is experiencing now, is what I went through, and a new fuel pump cured the problem.

 

What is most likely happening is that the electrical contacts that engages the pump are very near their limits and any amount of heat or over use is causing the contacts to lose connection thereby shutting down the pump and you suffer instant fuel starvation, and the engine shuts down. You can crank and crank and crank the engine all you want but without the pump turning to allow fuel to pass through, it's locked. My pump would cool off and allow the contact to make connection again and all would be fine.. until they lost contact again.. either under big load (dropping the hammer) or just merrily cruising along at low speeds. There was no rhyme or reason to when it would do it, but it usually did it at the weirdest times.

 

When my fuel pump finally died in PA while visiting SkyDoc, (thanks Doc for putting me up and the tow!) the local shop did the fuel pump test and it worked, but it then died again for the final time before other testing were done.. So to them, the pump was fine, and they replaced a lot of parts under warranty before tossing their hands up in the air and I had to get the bike taken to another shop. The mechanic there was able to identify the problem within 15 minutes and got a new pump installed and that was the end of that. All fixed and never since a hiccup with that pump or fuel issues. He showed me the contacts on the old pump and there were quite rounded off, never again to make full connection.. When I explained to him about my fuel filter issues prior to this fuel pump problem kicking in, he suggested that the clogged filter over worked the pump, causing it's premature demise. Hence why I relocated my fuel filter and change it twice a year on spec..Easy to access and cheap enough not to worry.

 

If only these pumps would simply die their horrible death right away and not linger on and on before the final demise, a lot of these problems would be easier solved.. and rectified in a timely manner to allow us to ride on worry free. I know how the OP feels about going on a road trip, not knowing when and IF the pump will die again, most likely at the MOST inopportune moment..

 

Best of luck.. based on my experience with my fuel pump issues, which is very similar to the OP's, a fuel pump change is recommended. No guaranties that this IS the fix but that would be my first item to look at..

 

I would not suspect the kick stand being the culprit here.. if a bump causes the safety switch to activate, causing the kick stand to drop enough, it kills the engine. (safety switch is there so you can't pull away in gear with the kick stand down). Once the kick stand is up and the switch is made (closed or open?!) the engine will crank and start ok.. If the safety switch is the culprit and caused your engine to shut down, you wouldn't be able to crank the engine at all.. you just end up getting the two red 'engine check light' and 'water temp' lights when you press the starter. If the kick stand safety light just jiggled enough to cause the engine to shut off while riding, but re-engages itself properly when you tried to start it again, it should crank over and then start.. simple as that (sorry, can't remember if the switch is activated with the kick stand down or up.. but the effect is the same..) This switch is the cause to a few of the instant shut downs experienced by many bikes but it's a quick check and a quick fix.. The OP said he's able to crank and crank the engine after a shut down but it will not start right away.. to me that is not the kick stand as it would catch and start after a couple of cranks.. if the engine would not crank, that's an indication of the kick stand switch..

 

As far as the diodes and relays and rigamajigs in the little black boxes, well that's all FM to me (frikken magic).. as long as the smoke doesn't escape from these boxes, all should be good..

 

I do wish the OP best of luck with problem, as I DO know how it feels riding with a dodgy bike, not knowing when or if it will shut down at the wrong time while riding..

 

Cheers

[LilBeaver]

Alright, well I ran across a good deal on a fuel pump so I couldn't pass it up. I have it installed, along with a brand new fuel filter (granted my old one only had a few thousand miles on it I figured for 2 bucks and since I had it all apart anyways, why not replace it).

 

For what it is worth, a couple of days ago (maybe it was more like a week -- I really don't remember now; work has been pretty crazy lately) when I went to start the bike, flipped on the ignition, turned the fuel selector to "ON", flipped the emergency cut-off switch to the ON position and the fuel pump started clicking rapidly (like normal) and within a few clicks it stopped. I cycled the ignition switch again and the same thing happened. On the third cycle it ran for the full couple of seconds with the ticks slowing as the time went on (just like it is supposed to). This strongly suggested to me that I am having an intermittent problem with my pump.

 

I have not had a chance to take it for a test ride yet, but I did get the pump installed last night so we shall see what happens.

[LilBeaver]

Well I had a long/hard start today. It was about 55 degrees and has been raining on and off all day. I got on my bike around 630 to head home and it cranked and cranked. Cycled the ignition on and off a few times (then remembered to pull the choke out). Sat there with it off for maybe 1 minute or so; turned the key back on and had the choke fully out and it started right up.

 

I did notice that my voltmeter was reading low 10's during the cranking and it started to slow a little bit. So I am going to do some more extensive testing on my battery, and see if maybe it is on the way out too.

 

I have not given up on the relay that MuffinMan suggested -- I found it, cleaned it [it looked fine] and will look for a replacement on the ebay (or if it is not too expensive, just replace the #*&*& thing)...

 

I am not one to go down with out a fight, but I am reaching the end of the rope here... I want my old reliable bike back...

 

For what it is worth, the last several times I started my bike (with the new fuel pump) it started almost instantly. It was amazing. Not to mention the ran great!

[OutKast]

To update my situation, on sep 14 left with friends on a trip. Very first thing, it died when I put it into gear. Restarted, no more problems all the way to Daytona (over 800 miles), or for two days there, or all the way back to Florence SC where I lost front wheel bearing. Got that fixed. Left last fri for outer banks (250 miles) with no problems, two days there no problem, half way home no problem. But after both of the last two stops(damp and drizzly, but no actual rain), died while accelerating in first, and then majically restarted.

 

Rode to work today, heavy drizzly fog with no problem.

 

sigh

 

my buddies 1500 wing with 60k miles never even hicuped.

[OutKast]

Bump. Any update LilBeaver?

[LilBeaver]

Bump. Any update LilBeaver?

 

I am pretty sure we have exchanged some messages between your question and now but I finally got around to replacing my ignition switch as the symptoms returned, with vengeance, last week.

 

I will hopefully get some time to autopsy my old switch this week and verify (I certainly prefer to have conclusive evidence of the source of the problem), but, at this point I am pretty sure that the ignition switch was part of (if not the entire) source of this problem.

 

I will report back with findings when I get there...

 

For everyone else, I will write up a quick report on the problem, troubleshooting and solution once I have enough data gathered to assemble a proper report.

[Bigdogcc]

Hate to bump an old thread but was there ever any follow up to this? I have similar issues while the bike is new to me its got 59k miles on it. I was looking on line as to where to start the process to fix this. Looks like ignition switch is the starting point?

FYI if I broke some sort of etiquette please be genital its my 1st post.

[LilBeaver]

Hey Bigdogcc: I am nearly certain it was a faulty ignition switch. There are two sets of contacts that get used in the ON position, the more common failure mode is a break in continuity between the main contacts such that power is not passed through at all. In my case, the second set of contacts that connects the power to the ignition system [but not the dash lights/electronics/etc] had corroded and hence I had intermittent conductivity to the ignition system. Ever since switching out my switch I have not had any problems.

 

Cheers,

--lilbeaver