$1,400.00 and still don't run

[bdlight4]

New to posting on this site, but have been researching since last year. Lots of information and help to take in.

 

I have a 88 VR that has served me well for many years. Now, I'm at a point where I may call it quits. I was unable to ride for a whole summer (2010) due to health problems. The VR had been winterized and parked inside. I tried to fire it up spring of 2011 and would not run. Fuel looked like thick/dark apple cider. Drained fuel, flushed fuel tank, replaced fuel filter and filled the tank. At this point the bike barley ran. Pulled the carbs and cleaned following the write ups. No change. Slides did not seem to move, replaced diaphrams. No changed.

 

Now for the expensive part. Tried to find someone to work on it. Only one place in town would touch it. They did a "carb Job" and said it ran great. Picked up the bike and it ran that was about it. No power, bad fuel milage (22 HWY @60), and bike surged on the HWY. Rode it for a week hoping it would come out of it. Only option was to take it back. Two weeks later, picked it up with a pick up coil replaced and a ton of labor hours. Surge on Hwy gone and barley runs.

 

Bike acts like it is bogged down until RPM reaches about 6000. Then it runs like it use to. Tons of power and sounds awesome.

 

Sorry for being long winded but wanted to offer as much info as I could. Any help or ideas would be great. Thanks for your time.

Bill

[Yammer Dan]

Sea-Foam!!!

[mraf]

The bad gas will plug up everything. It sounds as if you still have plugged carbs. You say it runs good above 6000 R.P.M.s at this speed your carbs are on the main circuit. If not this, have you replaced the spark plugs? These bikes will run on 2 or 3 clys. 2 clys it will run like crap but 3 cyls running is noticeable but not as apparent. Have you opened your TCI and dried it out ever? If not you could be surprised at how much moisture can accumulate in it. There are some excellent people on here that will chime in with some more answers . Don't give up you'll be fixed soon.

[Cougar]

Sea-Foam!!!

[bdlight4]

I will have to research the TCI. Don't know what it is or where it is at.

 

I put about 250 sea foam miles on it with no change. I think I own a portion of the company!

 

When I went through the carbs, I spayed/soaked with cleaner and compressed air. I had an auto mechanic tell me the floats are too high. Any thoughts on this?

 

I changed the plugs and oil when I did the carbs. The so called shop said they did the plugs and oil each time they had it.

Edited March 6, 2012 by bdlight4
additon to post

[bendtdj]

If the Sea-Foam treatment does not work, you might want to try Interlakes Sport Center here in Madison, SD. They do good work and one of the owners used to ride a 1st Gen. They have always treated me well.

 

Dave

[GaryZ]

I will have to research the TCI. Don't know what it is or where it is at.

 

I put about 250 sea foam miles on it with no change. I think I own a portion of the company!

 

When I went through the carbs, I spayed/soaked with cleaner and compressed air. I had an auto mechanic tell me the floats are too high. Any thoughts on this?

 

I changed the plugs and oil when I did the carbs. The so called shop said they did the plugs and oil each time they had it.

 

 

Floats too high will cause it to 'blubber' at idle and smell very rich.

 

Out-of-sync carbs are possible.

 

If we assume the carbs are OK, start by checking the timing advance. A timing light aimed through the timing port at idle and look for timing to change as RPM increases.

 

[Yammer Dan]

May want to check out the TCI Dingy is doing the group buy on. Sooner or later the TCI on these things is going to crap out. Could be what you are having now?? If you had someone close to swap one out is quick check. Pull and dry and clean connections sometimes helps a lot. 24 yr old plug wires??

[bdlight4]

The bike does not smell rich at an idle from what I can tell. From an idle, as you give it fuel, it acts like something is holding it back or a lot of resistance to wanting to run as if chocking and spitting on itself. 6k and above the throttle response is as it should be. Crisp and unrestricted, sounds like no load and a new bike.

 

If I can get it to run, I will check the timing and carb sync.

[MiCarl]

It's very likely the carbs.

 

Not many who know how or are patient enough to do them properly.

[Tieftoener]

Sorry to hear about your troubles; I can imagine how frustrating it must be.

 

When you were in the carbs, what specifically did you do replace (if anything) besides the diaphragms? Did you get the slides loose (sometimes the main needle gets dried gas varnish and it sticks to the venturi inlet - need to carefully break it free and clean the main needle and jet opening). Did you get into the jets and jet block? Did you spray carb cleaner in all the orifices? Are they loose now? Are all the vacuum ports plugged/cap'ed?

 

For $1400 and no result, I'd be asking for a lot more description than that they say they did a "carb job." A bike mechanic/shop should know exactly what to look for and how to clean carbs. That's ridiculous.

Edited March 6, 2012 by Tieftoener
typo...

[kwisor]

how are the air filters have you ck or cleaned them

bumble bee

kevin

[Venturous Randy]

I am with Tieftoener. I believe the pilot jets are plugged up and were not cleaned as part of the "carb cleaning"

I would definately go back to the shop and have them explain if they took the manifold block out and removed the rubber plugs and removed and cleaned the pilot jets. It sounds like it is going from idle circuit to run circuit without anything in between.

Also, when you start it up cold, let it run for less than a minute and shut it off and see if all the pipes are hot.

RandyA

[Yammer Dan]

Sea-Foam

[Pegasus1300]

The pilot jets may still be plugged but Slides not moving and poor running sound like a vacuum problem to me.Are you sure all the lines went to where they should and is the vacuum signal line to the TCI hooked up right?Are all the slide diaphrams in the groove and the tab in the right place?

As to further carb cleaning,I have found 2 things that work well for me.The first on I got from the Bench Wrench section of the old Venture Touring Society.Their suggestion was to spray Berrymans areosol carb cleaner into every port you could find on the carb while running the engine.This has worked for me for years and I have only actually had to take the carbs apart once. The second thing I found on my own and that is to use BG gas treatment.If that stuff can't clean it out it can't be cleaned (IMNSHO).

Don't give up.If the bike was running good when you parked it, it will run good again.There is something that got overlooked but it will be found.

[Trader]

just a shot in the dark but when they did the carb work did the reseat the carbs or airbox properly? Maybe you've got air leaks?

 

In my LIMITED knowledge it seems to make sense if it runs well full out...it needs extra air at full bore but at idle maybe getting too much air.

 

????????????????

[dacheedah]

I'm gonna say that the first thing I would do is drain the gas and put in some good quality fresh gas in, ethanol will draw water if it has been sitting any time or if you bought cheap gas this could be the problem. I stay with the big names Shell Amaco and away from citgo here. Put the ole gas in your cager. No additives and run it and see if that helps, that might just be the cheapest fix.

[bongobobny]

Yah! Sounds to me as the shop did a poor job of rebuilding your carbs if they even did it at all! As stated the primary jets are probably still plugged. I'm wondering if they actually removed the carbs and disassembled them and properly rebuilt them, or just ran some carb cleaner thru them via the fuel line similar to how fuel injectors get cleaned. It's a tricky process to properly reassemble them and mechanically sync them as well as sync them by vacuum. Also the richness jets need to be set up with a CO sniffer for peak performance and economy.

 

You might want to consider a complete set of carbs from a known running bike off of fleabay or other sources but even then it's a crap shoot as to whether you get a good set or not...

[bdlight4]

Fuel in the bike has always been Non-ethanol premium puchased at the same stations I have gone to for years. Bike was parked for the winter with a full tank of premium and Sta-Bil.

 

When I took the carbs apart, I broke them all the way down. Jet block and jets were all sprayed. I sprayed cleaner in every opening I could find. When that did not work, I replaced the diaphrams. I made sure to check that they were installed with the tab in the correct place. They were easy to remove (did not appear to be stuck). When the bike was at idle, I checked for air leak. Found nothing. The TCI thing I know nothing about. I will have to check more into it.

 

What is the opinion of soaking carbs in a cleaner bucket for a few hours?

 

As far as taking the bike back to the shop, I was told that I signed receipt of the bike and it was running. They wanted to charge me another "carb Job" to work on it again. I would rather sell the bike as parts!!!

[warriorhoneybee]

hang in there dude,and i would diffently not take it back to those hosers. i would think about filing a complant with the BBB, it just may help the next guy. sorry i have no knowledge on the first gen and very little on the second gen but i'm sure someone here will come through with something,already sounds like they have some good ideas and hopefuly will get you on the right path so you can ride again. glad your health is doing better.

[KIC]

Try soaking them in Pine Sol if you take them off.

 

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=54671

 

You can also do a "soak" as described to me by Yammer Dan :

 

" Fill the carbs and leave them sit a while. I mix Sea-Foam with about 1/3 to 1/2 to fresh gas,open carb drains and get what you can out that way,pull the line off the rear of the fuel pump,clamp it off with a pair of vice grips. You try to use the petcock on one that has been sitting that long you will probably break it. Use a extra piece of line to put in the Sea-Foam and hook it to fuel pump. Close carb drains start bike and run til you are sure carbs are full of mixture. Shut off and leave sit at least overnight.Sea-Foam and gas combo makes it easier to restart. I have used pure Sea-Foam but they don't like to run on it, makes restarting hard.Knocking all that crud loose is a good way to ruin a set of plugs. Use some old ones. I keep Autolite plugs around for ones I'm working on. $1.50 or so each don't break you up when you ruin them. Just flooding them with the gas we have now seems to kill them.This may keep you from having to pull the carbs. I hate pulling those things. "

 

 

 

Good luck

[bikenut]

Did you remove the rubber plug on the block jet assy because there are jets under the rubber plugs.

I just did my 86 and they were the ones that were blocked and made my bike run bad.

Just a thought

Good luck

[FreezyRider]

Way back in the early 90's I traded a brand new riding mower to a guy for a Honda Elite 150 scooter. It was like new but had set on his covered porch for 2 years. It would run fine at higher rpm's, but like your Venture, it would hardly idle at all. Had to baby it coming off of idle and getting up to cruising speed, then it ran great.

I had the carb off of that bike so many times to clean it that I could do it in my sleep. Although it got minimally better, it still was almost un-rideable. Finally, during one of the carb tear downs, I decided to run a very tiny copper wire through all of the jets and every passage that I could find. Low and behold, I could not get the wire through one of the ports even though it was small enough that it should have gone through. This was a port that I had sprayed with carb cleaner a dozen times. That channel was totally blocked by a hardened scum that carb cleaner could not dissolve. I went to the local auto parts store and bought some really potent cleaner....had to buy a gallon and it wasn't cheap. Can't remember the name any more, been too long. I wouldn't be surprised if you can't even get it anymore due to EPA, etc. Stuff stunk to high heaven, and I had to wear heavy duty rubber gloves when handling it. Anyway, soaked the carb body and all parts in it overnight. Next day I was able to run my small copper wire through all jets and passages and get it thoroughly clean.

End of problem, the scoot ran like a new one.

 

Your problem may not end up being like this, but just wanted to pass it on in case it helps.

 

Good luck!

[bdlight4]

Thanks for all of the replies. I'm going to try and start working on the bike next weekend. I want to do a few upgrades and then check and make sure the carbs are in sync.

 

When I did the carbs, I did tear them all the way down. the jets were removed and sprayed. However, I did not run a wire in them.

 

I will update with my progress. Again thanks for the input.

[stardbog]

Sta Bil will sometime make more harm than good. I did learn that on hard way with my V* 1100. I will throw full can or two of sea foam in half of gas tank and run it until white smoke start pouring , shut down engine and let it sit overnight. start engine and run on highway until 1/4 of gas left in tank . top of with fresh gas and repeat if needed.

 

OR......

 

Get yourself 2nd Gen:sign killer dude:

Edited March 8, 2012 by stardbog