Serious cornering questions tips for an experienced Rider

[BuddyRich]

Do NOT ride beyond your comfort level. Somewhere in the dark recesses of your mind your constantly making calculations as you ride. If your mind/feelings says slow down then do it. Safety over fun is what you should be doing on the road. If you want to push it to scrapping pegs and mufflers and possibly losing it then do that on a race track somewhere. Its a lot safer for everyone that way.

[Yammer Dan]

How would I check for one of the advanced courses? Something to think about. I would love to take a ride with the confidence I used to have. Or was that just the stupidity of youth??

[twigg]

How would I check for one of the advanced courses? Something to think about. I would love to take a ride with the confidence I used to have. Or was that just the stupidity of youth??

 

You might try asking your local Motorcycle Safety Foundation (MSF) for recommendations.

 

Google is your friend, especially if you can find biker forums that discuss courses they have been on.

[muaymendez1]

So I went oit for a cool ride and I learned tjat I ride well.Cornering is fine,its just blind curves I done like.The ones I can see around are great and I have a hell of a time but a blind curve scraping the floorboard and then a parks dept vehicle approaching and over the doubler yellow line scared the crap outta me.

Was a fun a great day to go riding,

[dingy]

If you are scrapping the floorboards on anything but an extreme corner, it may be time to look at another bike.

I push my 1st gen very hard, and rarely have I scraped pegs on it, maybe twice since I have had two of these.

Gary

[Panjandrum]

A couple of things from this interesting thread.

 

Lots of people talk about scraping platforms/pegs. I am llooking forward to actually doing that some day. On the other hand, I lead lots of groups, often with experienced riders, and even without scraping, manage to leave many behind on the twisties... including many of those I consider to be good riders.

 

I have also heard it said that it is not a good idea to have solid parts of the bike on the pavement. They tend not to have a lot of give.

 

One piece of advice I have heard that has served me well on more than one occasion: If you are too hot into a corner, kiss the mirror and give a little gas. Giving it gas is counter-intuitive, and may be a bad idea if there is gravel on the curve, but worth practicing.

 

If you can get used to the fact that these guys are riding on the left side of the road, the video below is very good at showing how to set up and plan for bends (curves).

 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ykNYvPZOc0&feature=relmfu]Video: Looking at bends[/ame]

 

There are several good videos in this series.

[dingy]

Below is a cut from the 1st Gen MKI service manual showing a front profile for the bike at 45 deg bank angle.

 

There is still at least another 5 degrees to be had before scraping.

 

The 1st gen MKI's are much more of a compact machine than the MKII's are. Saddlebags are in tighter & higher.

 

I didn't see an illustration like this in the MKII service manual.

 

Gary

 

http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af193/gdingy101/Leanangle.jpg

[jburrell]

Lasy year I took a 2500 mile ride that included the "dragon" and the "Blue Ridge Parkway" and I got there by using a Garmin. What I found was that when on the Dragon I could look ahead with the Garmin and see where the really blind curves were and adjust my riding accodingly. This may give you back the security to ride and not be afraid of nitting a curve when you are not set up correctly for that particular curve.

In any case the best thing is Practice, practice practice. Get the DVD " Ride Like a Pro" and take the Advanced riders course. These will give you the confidence you need and the additional tips you pick up could save your life. Ride like everyone is trying to get you but learn to have a good time. AFter all that IS why we ride isnt it?

[octoberboy]

How would I check for one of the advanced courses? Something to think about. I would love to take a ride with the confidence I used to have. Or was that just the stupidity of youth??

 

Dan,

 

Check out: http://www.wv-msp.org/

 

Should do the trick.

[painterman67]

How would I check for one of the advanced courses? Something to think about. I would love to take a ride with the confidence I used to have. Or was that just the stupidity of youth??

 

 

Dan around here the advanced course is tought at the local comunity colleges.

Just an idea of where to start. Ive been thinking of it as for me 2 up tends to intimdate me. The most important person in the world is on the back. Be it my wife ,friend or a stranger that needs a reide they are still my resposibity. The local comunity college offers a 2up advanced course.

 

David

[muaymendez1]

I think i slowly got my confidence back.

The first gens do have a better lean angle as did my goldwing without the floorboards. i had a great time today. Blind turns were a bit fast and some SCRAPAGE was allowed but there was a section of the road where there were tight left and right twisties that you could see behind and I was having a blast. I think what really got me down was that I was trying to follow someoone twho has definetly been on said road a few times.

So for now I have not damaged my ego, and im not trying to be a racer .

To me a scrape of the pegs means that you were able to lean to the bikes max potential. My boards flex up so the point where they scrape is where I have to know to back off.Lucky that county Mounty didnt see me 3 turns earlier or he would have stopped me for sure.

There were right angle bends posted at 15mph but the bike handled well at 40mph and Im sure others take it alot quicker.

[playboy]

The following Questions I ask are for my information and in know way mean anything derogatory to anyone especially the OP. I know before I ask that they can be taken the wrong way but thats just me. I'm not very good at sugar coating it.

 

Should someone take a riding course solo before taking a two up course and has anyone taken a two up course. That's 99% of my riding time.

 

Is it suppose to be a badge of honor to be able to scrape something or a sign that your an experience rider. IMHO as a fairly new rider compared to the experience in this forum that's the message that I myself am seeing here. I worry about sending the wrong message to new riders like myself that that is where the bar is you have to reach to be a good rider. I may not be a good rider but I feel that I'm a safe rider a rider that constantly has room for improvement till the day I put the kickstand down for the last time.

 

I know it must be a blast to be able to take a 15mph curve at 25mph over I question its safety on public roads while some may be able to achieve this I don't think that's something I could ever do I know a lot depends on the curve.

 

 

Muaymendez1 I'm sorry for the loss of your friend and hope I haven't offended you but reading back over some of your reply's sounds like your pushing it pretty hard and I worry about your safety as a brother rider.

We had some close calls last year with some of our other brothers here and would just like the chance to meet all of you someday. I understand your abilities and mine are probably know where even close just wanted to make some constructive criticism.

 

sorry for being so long

Vincent

 

[twigg]

You raise very good points Vincent.

 

It is very easy, in a discussion about riding techniques and cornering, to come away with the impression that the bulk of riders are riding flat out everywhere. It's probably the nature of the discussion.

 

However, it is also far from the truth.

 

The OP asked about safe cornering, and was advised to book on a course. Those courses can, and do help you go faster around corners, but that is not the aim. The aim is to help you go more safely through corners.

 

Despite the language being "race lingo" oriented, that's not the reality. It really is all about understanding how a motorcycle behaves, and what the hazards are that you will face.

 

You may choose to use those new found skills to ride faster ... some do ... but most generally don't, well not by much. What they do get is the knowledge needed to simply be a safer driver.

 

The OP expressed a lack of confidence. That might not be fixed, but training and practise, and a clear understanding of hazards, and how to avoid them has got to help

[muaymendez1]

Ok I see where I may have misled.

I remember when cornering came very natural to me.But after the incident I questioned the safety of leaning too far or breaking too hard.I started second guessing everything.

That became dangerous when I became frightened with a turn and used hard braking instead of leaning it further and rolling on the throttle. I pannicked.

So for me pushing the bike to the point of scraping a hinged footboard was essential.I know that at that point I have gone far enough. I viewed it as a hurdle instead of a warning.I know the machine can do it,I just needed to know I could do it again.And I did so today.I know now that I could have leaned further snd avoided locking up the rear 3 weeks ago.So now I am a bit more confident that im not gonna lose it and I wont get.nervous till I hear the footboards telling me I am bordering the edge.

Hope this makes sense.I dont need to ride balls to the wall to enjoy the ride but I want to know the limits of my machine so when I need to call on it it is available.Almost like getting a faster bigger meaner bike when a small 650 can break any speed limit in america it will just take longer to get there.

[playboy]

Ok I see where I may have misled.

I remember when cornering came very natural to me.But after the incident I questioned the safety of leaning too far or breaking too hard.I started second guessing everything.

That became dangerous when I became frightened with a turn and used hard braking instead of leaning it further and rolling on the throttle. I pannicked.

So for me pushing the bike to the point of scraping a hinged footboard was essential.I know that at that point I have gone far enough. I viewed it as a hurdle instead of a warning.I know the machine can do it,I just needed to know I could do it again.And I did so today.I know now that I could have leaned further snd avoided locking up the rear 3 weeks ago.So now I am a bit more confident that im not gonna lose it and I wont get.nervous till I hear the footboards telling me I am bordering the edge.

Hope this makes sense.I dont need to ride balls to the wall to enjoy the ride but I want to know the limits of my machine so when I need to call on it it is available.Almost like getting a faster bigger meaner bike when a small 650 can break any speed limit in america it will just take longer to get there.

So glad you took that in the way it was intended and your last post I can really relate to I'm just not there yet and may not ever be and that's ok with me. Glad you started this thread I know it must have been hard for you and hope it's helped. When your riding you can have the peace of mind that your experience has at least helped someone else ME.

 

Thanks Twigg for your reply

[Rick Butler]

Jose,

 

I hear you and have experienced many of your issues, even with all the experience I have gained over the years. My best advice would be to take a novice track school class that allows all bikes. There are many of these schools today that tailor thier novice class to street riding skills. What you learned in MSF, Ride like a Pro, etc will not increase your confidence at road speeds. This is because their curriculum never lets you get over 35 mph which is not what we need for the road.

 

I can give you a few pointers that will help you in the corners and what you learned in MSF about "Look, Lean and Roll" is still valid.

 

1. Look through the corner to where you want to go.

2. Lean or push down on the inside grip to initiate the turn.

3. Maintain a positive throttle and when you get to the apex of the corner, roll on the throttle to your exit point, which is the outside of the lane.

 

The experts will tell you the safest line through a corner is to enter from the outside of the turn, tip into the turn late to the apex (or the inside of the curve) and exit to the outside of the lane, or Outside, Inside, Outside. By entering a turn late (aka Late Apex) it will let you look further into those blind turns. And entering early to the inside lane of a turn will almost always let the bike drift high into a corner and possibly cross the yellow line into the oncoming lane. And it's critical that you maintain a positive throttle all the way through the turn and then throttle hard coming out of the turn looking at your exit point down the road. Harder acceleration on exit will help bring the bike up straight. On drive shaft bikes, acceleration will lift up the rear giving you more ground clearance just as deceleration will cause the rear to settle lower.

 

You need to practice setting up for every curve as I described above. And you need to learn to use your front brakes to scrub off speed before entering a turn. By using your front brakes, it will cause the bike to load the front tire, increasing the contact patch thus giving you more traction. And as you tip into the turn, release the front brake slowly and roll on with the throttle to your exit point. I only use the rear brake for emergency stopping with the front brakes and for that final stop at a light or stop sign. Now when the road is wet or you are in loose gravel, the rear brake is the better brake to keep you from tucking the front. Other than that, I only use my front brakes for normal riding.

 

Once you become comfortable with these techniques, then you can work on changing the center of mass of you and the bike by using your body. The best way to do this is when you get ready to tip into the turn, move the upper part of your body to the inside of the turn and point your nose through the turn to the exit. Or in simpler terms, move your head and upper torso over towards your mirror. This will allow you to maintain a corner speed that will give you more ground clearance, which you really need with your early Royal Star.

 

That's probably enough to start with, but if you like to read, David Hough (pronounced Huff) has written a couple of books on "Proficient Motorcycle Riding" which explain what I provided above but in more detail with illustrations. And then it's Practice, Practice, Practice until you become more comfortable and confident in your abilities.

 

Hope this helped,

 

Rick

 

 

Ok so i have been dealing with this for a while and it takes a lot to get this off my chest but i feel very wimpy when going into a turn since I lost my buddy riding 14 months ago.

i thought i was over it but I constantly get scared before a turn and slowdown and then reallize how fun the turn would have been a bit faster.

I thought it was the new bike but now I have 5000 miles on this bike and I still feel uneasy.

 

I have to say that there are times when I scrape and I have narrowed that down to open visible turns. New jersey with all its foliage has lots of blind curves which I cant see around.

I have also notice that if the turn is a large radius I go into it slower but can eventually gain the speed to scrape the floorboards. SO i am thinking my problem is not adjusting my speed to enter the turn correctly.

is this just an experience thing.

Should i just go out there and ride a twisty road over and over again to practice?

I should also mention that my breaks were not up to par and Now that I have good breaks I dont have to panic to stop. My last panic I came up on a turn quick and I wasnt slowing down fast enough hence a grab and stomp on the brakes and a rear lockup through the turn onto the opposite lane. luckily no traffic was there to greet me.

[Rick Butler]

One other important tidbit Jose,

 

If you remember in your MSF traing, they talked about target fixation. Well this has two parts of which the important is to look where you want to go almost to the vanishing point of the turn. And the second part is that you will go where you look. So if you go into a turn and drift out high.....if you look at the shoulder of the road.....that is exactly where you will end up. So if you drift out, look on down the road to your exit point and STAY on the throttle. Your mind will tell you to slow down where you will want to let off the throttle......but that will only make matters worst and you will only drift more. You have to TRUST your tires and push down on the inside grip and accellerate to your exit point.

 

And if you ever meet oncoming traffic in a turn.....DO NOT look at the grill of the oncoming vehicle. Because if you do, where will you end up.......yeah in the grill. You need to look past the vehicle to your exit point. Same thing when a car turns in front of you....scrub off as much speed as you safely can with your front brakes and look for an escape route. And don't be afraid to practice these moves.

 

You are probably getting information overload, but I hope this helps,

 

Rick

 

And get a copy of Proficient Motorcycling where you can find it on Overstock.com cheaper:

 

http://www.overstock.com/Books-Movies-Music-Games/Proficient-Motorcycling-PACKAGE/2793296/product.html

[WCody]

One thing I haven't heard mentioned here pertaining to the Outside/Inside/Outside path of travel - don't get too close to the yellow line where your upper body will actually be leaning over into the on-coming lane.

 

That could ruin one's day if there is an oncoming vehicle coming around the turn at the same time.

 

 

And as others have said, O/I/O is the best path of travel as it allows you to see around the corners sooner and it helps "straighten out" your line through the curves somewhat.

 

And eye fixation is to be avoided. As others have said, look where you WANT to go, not where you're going. A friend of mine got eye fixation on a tree and was headed right for it until he forced himself to look away. He managed to lean the bike enough to make the turn but, it looked bad there for a bit.

[Nemo]

I was about to say the same thing. Try a Trike! One time, slipping on sand and over reacting, I accidently eased into the extra deep groove between the pavement and the shoulder. The bike flipped, broke me up real bad and destroyed the bike. Since adding the Hannigan Trike kit to my Venture, curves are never a worry any more. Still must be caucious, but that feeling of confidence and comfort is worth many times the cost of the Trike. Owen

[Barrycuda]

I know I am late to the party, but want to +1 on much of what was said already. I believe you would be Bette asking a step back, and taking another course to get you where you need to be. ride like a pro, Jerry Palladino has several terrific videos, which explain curves, turns and the set up. Someone mentioned practicing in an parking lot and protecting the bike with foam. Both Jerry has spoken about numerous times. I was very uneasy when I first bought this RSV, decided to take the course RIDE LIKE A PRO with Jerry. I was NOT doing well and made up for lost time. I practiced the fundamentals and continue to do so. I used those exact techniques when I rode 1,911 to Tennessee a few weeks ago. Today I took my wife out in the rain and decided to practice some U turns. Scared? He'll yeah, but like others mentioned, I go at MY pace, at MY comfort level. Things have gotten better. Do I ride like a pro? Not yet, but now I don't ride like a pansy on this RSV.

My advice is to re read some of the posts and make some notes on what you may feel you want to work on. I do recommend the ride like a pro V. Most of all is your safety and comfort. Riding scared causes more stress and can mentally wear you down. Stay strong and good luck to you.

Barry