GolfVenture Posted February 18, 2012 #1 Posted February 18, 2012 I'm going to Install Progressives on my 91 VR very soon. I would like to know how much additional work and time is it to replace the fork seals for a so so back yard mechanic. My MKII has only 7200 miles. I bought it from the origional owner last year. It has always been stored in a heated garage. Its never been rained on. Everything about it looks like it just came off the show room floor. He has licensed it every year only rarely rode it. I myself would be lucky if I put maybe 2000 miles on per year on the average over the next 10 years. I recall reading some on replacing fork seals and my recollection tells me that it is quite a job. Right now I'm leaning on not replacing them unless if I can be convinced that the job is fairly easy and 21 year old seals with 7200 miles really need replacing badly.
Flyinfool Posted February 18, 2012 #2 Posted February 18, 2012 Go for it. Look at all of the fun Kic is having with his seals......... My 88 is not leaking, so when I get my progressives I ain't touching those seals. I have 45K on it.
KIC Posted February 18, 2012 #3 Posted February 18, 2012 Yea...read my thread ..fun stuff ...if you decide to do it..let's have a phone conversation about it...
Snaggletooth Posted February 18, 2012 #4 Posted February 18, 2012 (edited) That is always a fun call. The Progressives are such an easy installation without any headaches on good forks. Just pop the cap and swap them out. BUT ..... Remember to bleed off any air pressure first. The thing is that if the seals are showing no signs of leaking and you have been riding the bike recently I would just swap them out and not worry about it. With only 7,200 miles on it the seals and bushings are a long way from worn out. On the other hand, they do have the age issue. But fork seals being in a closed system should not of dried out and seem to be working for you. You need to weigh the risk of a failure in the near future and that can add expense to project such as new brake pads when they get soaked with fork oil. If you feel comfortable with the seals now, I'd go for a simple swap out. The bike I bought had sat stored for nine years and I rode it for two years before I had a leak on them. Yeah yeah .... I know. That really cleared things up for ya. Mike Edited February 18, 2012 by Snaggletooth
uncledj Posted February 18, 2012 #5 Posted February 18, 2012 I didn't think it was a difficult job. The only sticking point was the pyramid seals which were too tall. There should be plenty of posts about these seals. Make sure that the ones you get are OEM, or at least the same thickness. The Pyramid seals may be the only problem ones; I'm not too sure about that. The only other thing about the progressive spring / seal changeout that I remember being a PITA was figuring the length on the pvc spacer. The length given was too long, and it was through a bit of trial and error that I figured the length. I think it had to be a bit shorter than suggested. In any case, that was two years ago, and have had no problems since.
MiCarl Posted February 18, 2012 #6 Posted February 18, 2012 I would like to know how much additional work and time is it to replace the fork seals for a so so back yard mechanic. It'll take at least 4X as long and is a dirty nasty job where you can get into trouble if you don't know what you're doing.
KIC Posted February 18, 2012 #7 Posted February 18, 2012 It also depends on other maintenance issues you want to correct .I really needed to clean and grease my upper triple fork bearing and grease electrical connections and move TCI. But it is scary all torn apart.
KIC Posted February 19, 2012 #8 Posted February 19, 2012 Just received my OEM seals today from SkyDoc_17..man that was fast !!
Flyinfool Posted February 19, 2012 #9 Posted February 19, 2012 Just received my OEM seals today from SkyDoc_17..man that was fast !! Of course it was fast, they do have to be able stay in front of a 1st gen.......
KIC Posted February 19, 2012 #10 Posted February 19, 2012 Brian, I just posted this in my thread, but thought I would add it to yours... A little bathroom reading as you decide.... Required OEM Part Numbers 2 YA26H-23144-00-00 SEAL DUST 2 YA1NL-23145-00-00 OIL SEAL FORK 2 YA26H-2319L-00-00 WASHER FORK 1 EACH SIDE 4 YA26H-2319M-00-00 SPRING WASHER AKA WAVE WASHER 2 YA3JJ-23125-00-00 METAL SLIDE FORK BUSHING 2 YA3JJ-23171-00-00 PISTON, BUSHING You will need to have the following tools: Wrenches 10mm, 11mm, 12 mm and 19mm wrenches Sockets 6 point 10mm, 11mm, 12 mm (I use a 3/8" SAE drive) Socket 12 point 11/8" ½' drive Socket Hex 5mm, 10mm and 17mm (½" drive) ½" drive extension 8" in length ½" drive t-handle Dead blow hammer (preferable rubber faced) #2 Phillips screwdriver Gasket pick Curved jaw vise grip pliers Small brass drift pin Small tack hammer (preferably with a square shaped head) Hand impact driver with Phillips bit Small hand sledge (or a heavy framing hammer) Sharp point punch Air compressor and air wrench come in handy I recommend you have on hand some blue Permatex thread locker and a tube of Race Tech's Ultra Slick Seal grease. Shop rags or other absorbent materials. Pinch bar Extendible magnetic head pick up tool Electrical tape White grease or Petroleum Jelly New fork oil. You can also make a handy and cheap tool that will assist in the removal and re-installation of you fork parts by getting a 22-24-inch piece of ½=inch PVC. A 1/2 –inch PVC “T” and a 2-inch 5/8 bolt and a 5/8 nut that fits the bolt. Glue the “T” on one end of the pipe. Screw the nut to the top of the bolt. Place epoxy in the PVS pipe and on the bolt threads and screw the bolt all the way up to the nut. Then lightly, but firmly , back the nut against the PVS pipe end as you would using a locking nut. Let the epoxy cure. You now have a nice tool that will make it easy in disassembly and reassembly. NOTE: It is firmly recommended that you use OEM seals as replacements. Some aftermarket seals are up to 1/16th taller than OEM seals and this will cause heartache and hassle when you want to reassemble. Start by putting the bike on the center stand and then cribbing/bracing the frame so the bike won't fall over on its side. Ensure you raise the front tire at least 2" off the ground. Put the key in the accessory position and reduce the air pressure to the front forks to 0 psi. If you forget this step, I guarantee you will be wearing fork oil. Remove the key from the ignition and put it in a safe place. If you feel comfortable that you can get to the top of the fork tubes without removing the handlebars, so be it, however; I prefer to remove mine. Read all the following steps then start the work. Remove the plastic hoods from the left and right fairings. The Hazard flasher is found on the right hood. Tuck it into the coolant overflow compartment to hold it out of the way. Remove the Handlebar/Ignition switch cover. Remove the cover bracket (11/8" socket) and loosen the handlebars. Don't move them yet, use the Hand Sledge and the sharp point punch to mark where the slit sits on each so you put them back where you found them. Remove the rubber fork caps (if you still have them) Turn the wheel to one side. The manual suggests loosening the fork tube pinch bolts, DON'T. Using the 17mm hex socket loosen the fork cap bolt. The cap bolt may need to be persuaded with the dead blow hammer but it will loosen. Keep downward pressure as this keeps the spring compressed and stops parts from flying loose. Loosen it completely to remove residue air pressure from that fork tube and then tighten it back in place. Repeat the last step on the other tube. Remove fork brace, front fender and any fender accessories. Label any wiring as you disconnect it, believe me it'll save time later. Remove the brake calipers (and any chrome covers). I zip-tied them to the frame to hold them out of the way. Using the curved jaw vise grips remove the speedometer cable from the lower left side. Be careful the inner cable may slide loose. If so a piece of electrical tape will hold it in place. Put it up by the left caliper. Loosen and remove the pinch bolt on the lower right fork. Loosen and remove the axle and remove the front wheel. Use the hand impact to loosen the drain screws (one fork at a time). Remove the screw and drain the fork oil, I used an old coffee can as a drain container for this step.. At this time use a 5mm hex socket to remove the EAND unit on the fork. Careful as oil may spray out if you didn't follow step 5. Tie the EAND up to frame next to the caliper for that side. Be careful to not lose the two rubber washers. Repeat for the other fork. Using the air wrench with a 10mm hex socket through the bottom of the fork hold the fork tightly and loosen/remove the Allen head bolt. Repeat for other side. Inspect the brass washers, if worn replace them. They can and have been reused. I replaced mine. Use the gasket pick or a small blade straight screwdriver to genteelly raise the rubber dust cover. Then remove the retaining clip and put somewhere you won't misplace it. Try really, really, hard not to scratch the fork tube while doing this step. Go back to the top of the forks and remove the fork cap bolt and remove the inner parts. Remember they are still under pressure. Make note of which part goes where in case you don't have a manual to show their respective places. If you have Progressive Springs like mine remove the preload spacer and then the spring. Most of the oil should have drained but Shop Rags help catch any residual fluids. Place the spring somewhere they won't roll around and get dirty. Repeat for the other fork. Put the pinch bar through the axle hole in the bottom of the fork and using the dead blow hammer, pull down on the bar while striking it with the hammer. The lower fork tube should separate after a few blows. Repeat for the other side. You can also use the slide hammer method, but just BE VERY CAREFUL not to ”slam” the lower tubes up, or down, if you have the whole tube assembly off. There are ( on each side) 3 little washers The stealership wanted $9.++ each for them, and 2 small aluminum type “oil locks” that are around $53.00 each, that can be damaged. Carefull separation will save you headaches and $$$. I had mine off and had a friend hold them up shoulder height, while I did the slide hammer method. Some models ( like my 1989) have a UFO looking washer cup that sits in the very bottom of the tubes. Your oil lock will slide into this, if you have one. You will see the inner fork damper rod (complete cylinder) hanging out of the bottom of the top tube. If the oil lock piece and three special washers are still on it, consider yourself good. Otherwise use the magnetic pickup tool to remove them from the lower tube. Be sure you have all four pieces. Check the oil lock piece for wear, if its worn, replace it (OEM price $50.++ US each). This piece must work or your EAND air suspension won't!! Important Fork Seal Replacement for Dummies tip!! Do only one side at a time. It may take a few minutes longer but you'll have a sample of how it should look for reassembly purposes. Use the gasket pick to gently spread open the guide bushing and remove it. Catch the seal spacer as it drops off. Remove the slide bushing in the same manner as the guide bushing, catching the top seal spacer. Remove the dust cover. You can skip this step if you wish but it will help prolong the life of the seals and make installation easier. Pack the space in the bottom of the rubber seals and the dust caps with the Race Tech Ultra Slick Seal grease. Also, wrap some scotch tape around the lip/drove on the upper forks to assist in the sliding up, and prevent seal damage. Don’t forget to remove the tape. Put the replacement parts on this side reusing the seal spacers as you do so. Put on the dust cover, top seal spacer, oil seal, lower seal spacer. Slide these pieces most of the way up the tube and then use a piece of electrical tap wrapped around the tube to hold them in place. Now slide on the slide bushing (the smaller one) and then the guide bushing (the larger one) that should snap into the milled groove at the bottom of the tube. Repeat for the other fork. Put the fork spring and associated inner parts back into the forks and tighten the fork caps enough to hold everything securely. Use a glob of white grease or petroleum jelly and smear it around the damper rod (complete cylinder) where the smaller section is. Put one new wave washer, a flat washer, and a second wave washer on to this part. Next slide the oil lock piece onto the complete cylinder. IMPORTANT!!! The wider end goes down! If this is reversed you will lock the damper rod in the lower position, cancel out your air suspension, blow a new seal, have a rough riding bike and possibly wreck your ride. Place the outer fork tube over the inner tube, careful not to dislodge the washers and oil lock piece. Hold the outer tube securely and using the air wrench and 10mm hex drive socket, tighten the Allen head bolts. Now the hardest part of the whole procedure. Use some of the Race Tech Ultra Slick Seal grease around the space between the top of the outer tube and the inner tube where the seal bushing will go. Then with the small brass drift pin and small hammer, tap the seal into place. Be careful to NOT scratch the inner fork tube during this step. I used the side of the hammer head to strike the drift pin which I move alternately around the tube. When the seal is flush with the top of the outer fork tube, you are good to go. Remove the electrical tape from the inner tube and slide the lower seal spacer and oil spacer down enough to replace the tape to hold the upper seal spacer out of the way. Use more Race Tech Ultra Slick Seal grease and fill the space above the lower seal spacer where the oil seal will fit. Slide the oil seal down and gently tap the seal into place. Remove the electrical tape letting the upper seal spacer slide down into place. Replace the retaining clip. Fill the space around the clip with Race Tech Ultra Slick Seal grease and then slide the dust cover down and tap it into place to seal the outer tube. Repeat for the other fork tube. Replace the oil drain screw and use the hand impact to tighten the drain screws (one fork at a time). Use a 5mm hex socket to replace the EAND units on the forks. Torque these bolts to 5 ft-lbs or your wrist clicks. You don't want to over tighten these bolts. Replace the fork brace, front fender and any fender accessories. Reconnect your wiring. Reinstall wheel and axle. Replace and tighten axle pinch bolt. Replace speedometer cable. Now is a good time to clean and re-grease this cable. Replace brake calipers and any covers. Take off the fork cap bolts carefully the parts are under pressure. Remove whatever parts are needed to add the recommended amount of NEW fork oil. Replace parts. Replace the cap bolts and tighten. Replace the rubber cap covers. Replace the Handlebars and tighten their pinch bolts. Now is a good time to adjust them if they needed any to fit you instead of the previous owner. Replace the cover bracket and tighten the 11/8" nuts. Replace the Handlebar/Ignition switch cover. Tighten the two screws. Take the bike off the cribbing, clean up your work area and tools and wipe the grin off your face as you go for a test ride.
jdross440 Posted April 2, 2012 #11 Posted April 2, 2012 Do you need to replace all the parts listed ( reason I ask is that all I ordered was seals for my 1990)? I have 58K miles on mine and one seal is starting to leak after setting all winter. Also, how do you bleed the pressure off the forks?
viking2seafarer Posted August 4, 2012 #12 Posted August 4, 2012 (edited) I'm at the same point on my 90 VR with 60Kms. I have pulled the forks and inspected the inner and outer tubes and they look fine. Do I really need to replace the two bushes? I have already been caught with the pyramid seals...a waste of money there! By the way I discovered that the oil lock had been installed upside down. Whoever was in there last had put the thin end to the bottom and it lodged firmly into the UFO shaped cup. So there was no movement of the oil lock at all. I am also wondering if the anti dives are working properly. I turned the ignition on and touched the front brake and the pistons hardly move. Should they move vigorously or not. I know I've asked a lot of questions but maybe others will benefit from the answers as well. This is an excellent site. I have learned so much and nearly checked out every area of my bike. Regards from downunder. Edited August 4, 2012 by viking2seafarer spelling
mbrood Posted August 4, 2012 #13 Posted August 4, 2012 In replacing the springs (bootom)... replace the existing spring with the Progressive and what's shown on the top... yeah, the original 3" spacer becomes a dust collector! http://www.bergall.org/temp/venture/springs3.jpg
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