'83 Brake system work - Milky Fluid?

[alvald83]

Im finally taking care of the steering head bearings at the local Yamaha dealer in preparation for my cross country ride.

I also had them do a complete bike check and found that my front brake calipers were not releasing completely ( i asked them to find out why my gas mileage was not where i thought it shouild be). They found milky like brake fluid in the system and suggested rebuilding the system. I gave them the OK to rebuild the calipers and master cylinders. I cant afford the stainless upgrade at this time.

The only thing that i didnt like was the fact that they are charging 5 hours of labor to do the head bearings (original est. was 3 hours). For $780, i should have a not only better handling bike but also a little better gas mileage (since the brake pads wont be dragging anymore).

My last shop supposedly flush the syetem last year. What causes the brake fluid to turn into this milky thing that they described?

[Keemez]

What causes the brake fluid to turn into this milky thing that they described?

 

Moisture. Brake fluid is hygroscopic.

[twigg]

Moisture. Brake fluid is hygroscopic.

 

And when it gets hot, which it will when you brake, the water turns to steam ... and steam is highly compressible.

 

Flush it all out with clean fluid and check the insides of the master cylinders for rust.

[bongobobny]

Also, use synthetic brake fluid as the properties of the fluid are superior especially the boiling point...

[alvald83]

Just got my bike back from the shop. My head bearings must of been toast, because steering is completely different. I have a problem with the brakes though, They feel very spongy and it takes much more force to stop. I called them and the mechanic said that he bled them multiple times and that is as good as he could get them. He told me to bring it back and he could re-bleed them. I dont think that he is bleeding in the proper sequence.

Should i take it back or try to bleed it myself? BTW, they rebuilt the calipers and MC and attempted to bleed the brakes (this was the local Yamaha Dealer, can u believe that). Does anyone know a Mechanic in San Jose that knows how to work on these bikes. I asked the mechanics opinion about my bike going cross country, he says, " get a new bike". When i told him that i would make it no problem, he says, "you're more brave than I am". Cant wait to do it and come back and talk to him.

[RedRider]

The bike is probably older than the mechanic.

 

RR

[dacheedah]

I would personally take it back to the mechanic if you have already paid him. If he rebuilt them, used the proper fluid and properly bleed the lines they should be good. Not to say they wouldn't need a re bleeding after some use but as a touch up. Personally I like these but they are not necessary. . .http://www.speedbleeder.com/

[Marcarl]

Just got my bike back from the shop. My head bearings must of been toast, because steering is completely different.

It will be, every time you deal with the steering head the feel will change

I have a problem with the brakes though, They feel very spongy and it takes much more force to stop. I called them and the mechanic said that he bled them multiple times and that is as good as he could get them.

If that was his answer, find another mechanic, they should be perfect, close is not good enough, your life depends on them.

He told me to bring it back and he could re-bleed them. I dont think that he is bleeding in the proper sequence.

Should i take it back or try to bleed it myself?

Do it yourself, it's time consuming maybe, but a whole lot cheaper and then you'll know it's done right. Lots of instructions on this site.

BTW, they rebuilt the calipers and MC and attempted to bleed the brakes (this was the local Yamaha Dealer, can u believe that). Does anyone know a Mechanic in San Jose that knows how to work on these bikes. I asked the mechanics opinion about my bike going cross country, he says, " get a new bike". When i told him that i would make it no problem, he says, "you're more brave than I am". Cant wait to do it and come back and talk to him.

All in all, the more you do yourself, the better you understand your machine. If you had done all this work yourself, you would have had a whole new tool set, stainless lines and money left over for some more safety chrome.

[twigg]

Just got my bike back from the shop. My head bearings must of been toast, because steering is completely different. I have a problem with the brakes though, They feel very spongy and it takes much more force to stop. I called them and the mechanic said that he bled them multiple times and that is as good as he could get them. He told me to bring it back and he could re-bleed them. I dont think that he is bleeding in the proper sequence.

Should i take it back or try to bleed it myself? BTW, they rebuilt the calipers and MC and attempted to bleed the brakes (this was the local Yamaha Dealer, can u believe that). Does anyone know a Mechanic in San Jose that knows how to work on these bikes. I asked the mechanics opinion about my bike going cross country, he says, " get a new bike". When i told him that i would make it no problem, he says, "you're more brave than I am". Cant wait to do it and come back and talk to him.

 

Yes, I can easily believe that a trained Yamaha mechanic might not know how to bleed the brakes correctly. Actually, I think you were lucky to find a Dealer that would work on it at all Many won't touch a bike that is over ten years old.

 

While it is always nice to keep bikes original, I personally think that the brakes were marginal on these bikes, even when they were new, and there are some easy and very useful upgrades you can perform, if you are minded to.

 

As for "spongy". They shouldn't be. It's kinda hard to describe the exact feeling, because rubber pipes flex, and there will always be some give in the lever. However, it should squeeze back part way then stop. With braided steel lines the "stop" will be much more positive than with original lines. It should still feel firm.

 

Also. if new pads have been fitted it will take a while for full braking to be achieved.

 

The biggest problem for me is that you need to use your foot on these bikes more than I like. It's less precise, with much less feel, and I will be de-linking my brakes pretty soon.

 

With bleeding ... often it is straightforward, sometimes not. Sometimes you have to bleed them, leave them a while, then do it again. A third time can even squeeze out yet more air and if you feel confident then you are probably better doing it yourself. Speedbleeders are a good investment.

 

As for taking the bike across country ... A well maintained Venture is more than capable of hauling itself from coast to coast ... All machines can break down but there is no real reason why yours should if it has been looked after.

[alvald83]

Thanks for the info, I may be De-linking my brakes soon as well. Its funny because the only reason i hadn't de-linked up to this point was because i was too cheap to spend $250 on the stainless setup that i would do at the same time. But i have spent more than that letting the dealer full around with my original sytem. Lesson learned. If the dealer can get it bled properly, i will make that (de-linking and stainless upgrade) my next big $ project. And use that time to do it myself and learn how my brakes work.

[twigg]

Thanks for the info, I may be De-linking my brakes soon as well. Its funny because the only reason i hadn't de-linked up to this point was because i was too cheap to spend $250 on the stainless setup that i would do at the same time. But i have spent more than that letting the dealer full around with my original sytem. Lesson learned. If the dealer can get it bled properly, i will make that (de-linking and stainless upgrade) my next big $ project. And use that time to do it myself and learn how my brakes work.

 

You don't need to spend that kind of money to de-link brakes.

 

If you want a bolt-on solution then maybe, and if you are going "big project" route then I would suggest that you buy Skydoc_17's full conversion kit for about $500, which is still less than you just paid Yamaha.

 

With that kit you will get everything you need to upgrade the calipers to Yamaha R1, Steel lines and the bits needed for the rear master cylinder.

 

If you simply want to upgrade the lines and de-link .... There is an ebay seller that will make up the three lines you need for about $60 plus shipping ... He also has all the banjos and washers, etc.

 

You will need a blanking plug for the rear master cylinder, and Skydoc_17 will sell you one for a modest cost.

 

All in all, about $100 would cover it.

[Condor]

I don't think it's the mechanics problem. That's the way the '83 brakes DON'T work normally. Delinking the brakes will help a little on the front, adding HH pads will also help, but the only way to get a big improvement is convert to R1 or R6 brake calipers. The only problem is it's not cheap. I'd delink, and then shop Ebay for the things you'll need at your leasure....

[alvald83]

Imagine having those bad original brakes. Then getting it back from the shop and having half of that. I thought my brakes were fine before. During their inspection they found dirty jello like fluid. maybe the jello was holding it all together.

[Keemez]

Before you take it back to the dealer, try this trick that nobody else has thrown out yet:

 

Apply the brakes firmly (practically full extension) and ziptie/tie/somehow secure the lever into that position and leave it overnight or even for a full 24 hours. Occasionally rap the lines with a screwdriver handle or other such suitable tool. Whatever you do; don't release the pressure on the lever for a good long time. Assuming all else is in suitable condition, the feel and firmness will improve drastically. This will be much easier for the front lever; I'm not sure how you'd provide positive engagement of the rear pedal for an extended period (maybe hang a 25lb sack of shot off it). Probably a good idea to layer multiple junk towels under any lines or in the vicinity of any painted surfaces just in case a line lets go.

 

Try that and report the results.

[Venturous Randy]

OK Al, it's time you start getting your moneys worth on the $12 you spent on this web site.

To think about spending $780 on getting the head bearings fixed just hurts to think about. I don't know how many miles your bike has on it, but for most of these bikes, the biggest problem with the head bearings is they need a good cleaning and regreasing. Yes, replacing the bearings and races is great and I hope that is what they did, but usually it is just dried grease that makes them feel notchy.

I am fortunate that as a kid I was the neighborhood fix-it guy for myself and my friends. This has served me well in being able to maintain my 83 Venture that I have had 16 years and have put about 125,000 miles on since I have had it. If I encounter anything that I am not sure about, I start here with specific questions and to be honest with you, the LAST place I would consider is taking the bike to a dealer.

Another thing I would do is start asking around about folks in your area that may be able to help you if you are not sure about doing things. But, at least let us help you if we can.

RandyA