Oil in My Coolant

[GaryZ]

The Beast started pissing coolant yesterday. I tracked it down to a pin-hole leak in the large hose on top of the front head. While messing with it I removed the radiator cap and found it covered in 'milkshake' goop. Obviously I have oil leaking into the cooling system.

 

All of the coolant that leaked out yesterday was nice and clean.

 

Any suggestions would be appreciated about now . . .

Edited February 2, 2012 by GaryZ

[Black Owl]

The Beast started pissing coolant yesterday. I tracked it down to a pin-hole leak in the large hose on top of the front head. While messing with it I removed the radiator cap and found it covered in 'milkshake' goop. Obviously I have oil leaking into the cooling system.

 

All of the coolant that leaked out yesterday was nice and clean.

 

Any suggestions would be appreciated about now . . .

Not wanting to rain on your parade, but if you have oil in your coolant, there is a fairly good chance that you also have coolant in your oil.

Need to get that coolant out of your oil as it can play hell with your engine. Degloss and cavitation pitting of the bearings, cause frothing of the oil and degrading of the lubricating properties of the oil.

Would also suggest a pressure test to determine if you have a bad head gasket.

[Squidley]

Gary,

 

Just an initial thought here, but center engine between the cylinders at the bottom of the V is where the breather is. If that seal in there has failed, you could be having oil in the coolant from that spot as they both share that cover....

[M61A1MECH]

Does a Gen I have the water pump driven off a gear in the crankcase , like the Royal Stars? If it does maybe the seals on the driven shaft are bad, it has happen on a number of Royal Stars of all flavors.

[playboy]

Gary,

 

Just an initial thought here, but center engine between the cylinders at the bottom of the V is where the breather is. If that seal in there has failed, you could be having oil in the coolant from that spot as they both share that cover....

Ditto hope I get mine fixed in time so far its just leaked water to the outside. I hope

 

[GaryZ]

Not wanting to rain on your parade, but if you have oil in your coolant, there is a fairly good chance that you also have coolant in your oil.

 

Need to get that coolant out of your oil as it can play hell with your engine. Degloss and cavitation pitting of the bearings, cause frothing of the oil and degrading of the lubricating properties of the oil.

 

Would also suggest a pressure test to determine if you have a bad head gasket.

 

Thanks for the input. There does not appear to be any milk in the oil site glass.

I plan on draining the coolant and oil for closer inspection.

[GaryZ]

Gary,

 

Just an initial thought here, but center engine between the cylinders at the bottom of the V is where the breather is. If that seal in there has failed, you could be having oil in the coolant from that spot as they both share that cover....

 

Thank you for this input. Can I get to this cover without pulling the engine?

[jasonm.]

Does a Gen I have the water pump driven off a gear in the crankcase , like the Royal Stars? If it does maybe the seals on the driven shaft are bad, it has happen on a number of Royal Stars of all flavors.

Note: Ovverall The Royal star V4 engines share share same internal design as 1st gen except cams and tranny ratios, AND there is a weep hole..so this above, does not happen...unless the weep hole is clogged up. Which I have never seen. Although a really bad oil seal at the water pump could both leak out at weep and force some oil into the cooling system. But you have a better chance of hitting the lottery for $1million.

[twigg]

Most common causes of mixed oil and coolant:

 

Head gasket failure - Do a leakdown or compression test. Leakdown is better because it might only become apparent on a compression test with the engine hot, and you don't want to run it.

 

Waterpump Shaft Seal - Self explanatory really ... The waterpump has a shaft, with a seal, and they can fail.

 

Cylinder Head "Joints" - There are two plastic "joints" between cylinders on each head. Each of them has three o-rings and they have likely been undisturbed since new. Fixing this costs about $60. The joints are available, as are the o-rings but the joints will not come out without destroying them, they are too fragile. Getting them out is not fun but doable with the engine in the frame.

 

They are the obvious places to start looking.

[GaryZ]

Most common causes of mixed oil and coolant:

 

Head gasket failure - Do a leakdown or compression test. Leakdown is better because it might only become apparent on a compression test with the engine hot, and you don't want to run it.

 

Waterpump Shaft Seal - Self explanatory really ... The waterpump has a shaft, with a seal, and they can fail.

 

Cylinder Head "Joints" - There are two plastic "joints" between cylinders on each head. Each of them has three o-rings and they have likely been undisturbed since new. Fixing this costs about $60. The joints are available, as are the o-rings but the joints will not come out without destroying them, they are too fragile. Getting them out is not fun but doable with the engine in the frame.

 

They are the obvious places to start looking.

 

I pulled the heads in 2010 and installed Vmax cams. Media blasted, replaced valve stem seals, lapped the valves, installed new head gaskets and new 'joints' with o-rings. I could have screwed something up.

[twigg]

I pulled the heads in 2010 and installed Vmax cams. Media blasted, replaced valve stem seals, lapped the valves, installed new head gaskets and new 'joints' with o-rings. I could have screwed something up.

 

What about the waterpump seal?

 

If you worked carefully, and after spending all that $$$ who wouldn't? then the top end could well be just fine. It doesn't take much water to make that mayo mess.

 

Off hand I can't think of anywhere else that the water and oil can mix.

[skydoc_17]

Hey Gary,

Squidley is right on, the "Twinkie" shaped cover between the "V" of the two cylinder heads is leaking. You do not need to remove the motor to remove this cover, but you will increase your 4 letter word Vocabulary by the time you finish this project. A 1/4 inch pipe nipple, and a metric Allen wrench is what is needed here. Drain the coolant first. (This is one of those times when the water pump plug is the way to go!) Count on changing the oil and filter when finished. Clean the cover and body very well before installing the new gaskets. I use a bit of the Black RTV here because I hope I never have to remove this cover again!

If I can help with gaskets, let me know.

Earl

[twigg]

Oh yeah ... That's the other place.

 

I knew there was somewhere else

[GaryZ]

All right then . . . I think I will start with changing the 'twinkie' gasket.

Thanks guys!

[Squidley]

All right then . . . I think I will start with changing the 'twinkie' gasket.

Thanks guys!

 

Gary,

 

Just for clarification it is an oring setup in there and not a "Traditional" gasket as one might think....

 

Heres a picture of it #'s 36, 37, 40 and 42

Edited February 4, 2012 by Squidley

[playboy]

And there's two of them one for top cover and one for body.

[skydoc_17]

I apologize for calling the "Twinkie" O'Rings gaskets. When I think of an O'Ring, I think of a round cylindrical item found in a groove. I would hardly call a cigar shaped, round sealer of two surfaces with multiple connecting cross sections an O'Ring, but hey, "you say potato, I say French Fries"!

I stand corrected!

Earl

[twigg]

I apologize for calling the "Twinkie" O'Rings gaskets. When I think of an O'Ring, I think of a round cylindrical item found in a groove. I would hardly call a cigar shaped, round sealer of two surfaces with multiple connecting cross sections an O'Ring, but hey, "you say potato, I say French Fries"!

I stand corrected!

Earl

 

Yeah Earl ... you should be sorry!

 

After all, what do YOU know about these bikes? :rotf:

 

Have to say that the reason I missed out that cigar-shaped thingy from my list of places oil and coolant could mix is mainly because I have never seen it. That was almost literally the ONLY place that the cooling system on mine was working when I bought it. It leaked everywhere else!

[GaryZ]

Update:

I drained the coolant and found only a couple of drops of oil. No coolant was found in the oil. A bike mechanic friend says this is probably oil that got into the system when I pulled the heads. He said oil would accumulate in the overflow tank and around the radiator cap. These are my exact symptoms. He suggested running it for a while and checking again. I think I will ride it this summer and check again in the fall.

 

Hose Info:

According to Yamaha Parts Nation, the two main coolant hoses that go from the top of each head are no longer available from Yamaha. I picked up a couple of automotive hoses at O'Reilly's today. Expensive suckers! The two large hoses, one small hose and four clamps; $44

Edited February 24, 2012 by GaryZ

[Squidley]

Hose Info:

According to Yamaha Parts Nation, the two main coolant hoses that go from the top of each head are no longer available from Yamaha. I picked up a couple of automotive hoses at O'Reilly's today. Expensive suckers! The two large hoses, one small hose and four clamps; $44

 

I just bought the same exact 2 hoses you pictured from Napa and put them on my '86. I did modify the one that goes to the front of the engine as I didn't like how it routed. I installed a brass barbed fitting to shorten the length after the 1st bend, it fit a bit better now. FWIW, your going to have to use the factory clamp at the head section. install it at the bottom of the hose and spray the inside of the hose with some WD40 it is a bear to get on as the wall thickness of the new hose is a bit thicker...but it will go on.

[Guest HdHtr]

Just in case these could help.

[mmaleney]

Do you guys have a part # for the new hose or know what car / truck they are for, if yamaha no longer sell a replacement it would be good to have that info on site here somewhere.

[GaryZ]

Do you guys have a part # for the new hose or know what car / truck they are for, if yamaha no longer sell a replacement it would be good to have that info on site here somewhere.

 

The front hose that I used is from O'Reilly Auto Parts. It's a Gates part #19764.

I installed the sharp bend on the head and stretched it over to the Y-Housing. I cut off a little bit at a time until the hose reached and did not touch anything sharp.

 

The rear hose is also from O'Reilly's. It's a Gates part #28479.

I cut off about an inch before installing it at the rear head. This made the hose 'bend' work better. I routed it to the Y-Housing and cut off a little at a time until it fit.

 

I re-used the stock clamps at the head (per Squid's comment - Thanks!) and used new 3/4" clamps at the Y-Housing. Tomorrow I hope to fill it and ride it.

 

Test ride complete. I had to put a new hose clamp on the small hose from the 'twinkie' (leaking at the Y-housing) and re-connect the ground to the Y-housing. Man. No ground means no temperature gauge. They sure made the ground connector hard to reach. Changed the oil and filter while I was laying on the ground.

 

My beast is running great!

Edited February 23, 2012 by GaryZ