stability

[skipbasler]

O.K. folks, I am not a Venture owner, my son is. He bought an 84 XVZ 12 DL. Has complained about high speed stability from day one. I just returned from a short ride (about 75 mph) on I 75. The bike feels as though it's riding on rain grooves or a draw bridge grate at these speeds. I wouldn't take a long distance trip on this motorcycle if you paid me. We need some help,,, Please!

A bit of background. Both my son and I are long time performance auto mechanics. Rob just mounted a set of Shenco Tour Master tires. Re- packed/ replaced wheel bearings, replaced brake rotors, removed and greased final drive splines, checked and adjusted steering head bearings ( set with a very slight drag with wheel off ground). We've checked swing arm bearings (no play) and I went over the rear frame with a flashlight looking for cracks (yes, I had my glasses on). The only way he'll ride is with the rear tire at 45 lbs. the front at 37. Though keeping the tires over inflated (my opinion) helps, this thing is almost scary. My Eleven is more stable over bridge grates. What do we do/ look for? Any help will be greatly appreciated.

[utadventure]

Looks like you've got a good start on tracking down the problem.

 

I'm unfamiliar with the air pressure ratings on the Shenco tires. I run Metzlers and always run 40 in the front and 42-44 in the rear. Increasing the front tire pressure may help.

 

Another couple of things to consider are the front forks and the fork brace. Many, including myself, have gone to a heavier fork brace.

 

Check the fork springs, verify that the amount and weight of the oil in the forks are equal and that the amount of air is equal. Does your bike have an onboard air system? If the forks are linked for the air, are both free and clear?

 

Just a couple of thoughts.

 

Dave

[skipbasler]

Bike does not have on board air system. Forgot to mention he's running 12 lbs pressure in the forks. Machine feels a bit stiff legged compared to my Eleven special. Seems to corner fairly well, no darting or oscillation though a bit sensitive on steering input. Must admit I'm a bit daunted by the weight of the bike (getten old I guess).

[Kirby]

I'm sure you've already done this but I gotta ask anyway. Have you checked to make sure the tires are seated correctly on the rims? There's a reference line around the tire where the bead seats that should be equal to the rim all the way around. Another question, Does it feel like it's coming from the front or the rear of the bike?

[Black Owl]

The bike has always been a bit top heavy, and IMHO a real pig in a parking lot. One of the reasons I downsized to the Virago 1100.....

Had to get me an OF ride... now I just need to get it off the

[skipbasler]

Yes, thanks Kerby. These tires are incredibly smooth with no balance weights, I'm impressed that they're that good and so cheap (wish I could say the same about the new Bridgestones I just mounted, they suck!)

[Venturous Randy]

Several years ago, I put Avon Venoms on my 83 and found that speeds from 70 and up produced a tail waggle. It got real scary the faster I got. After asking around, there were several on here with 1st gen Ventures (83-93) that even though they said the Venoms were the best handling tires at low speeds, several also had problems with the tail waggle at 70 mph and above. I experimented with different tire pressures, but never did get it much better. What fixed the problem was changing the rear tire to a Dunlop Elite 3. In fact, the Venom front and E 3 rear is the best handling combination I have had on the bike and I have put about 130,000 miles on it since I have had it. I also tend to ride aggressively at times.

I have not heard of problems with the Shenco tires, but with the problem I had with the Avon rear, I would tend to suspect the tires, especially with all the things that you have done.

With as good as many of the members are in this group, if you are close to one, they may have a tire/wheel they will loan you with another tire brand for you to try. Good luck and I hope he joins our group.

RandyA

[painterman67]

cant speak for the mechanical end of whats going on btu I will coment on the sheko. If its the tourmasters hes got on there I would doubt its a tire problem. I put set of them on my 91 and only draw back I had was tire wear. The rear tire was bald at the 7000 mile mark. Now the front is still on there and has close 2 12,000 on it with a cople three tousand more left on the tread. When it goes Ill probably put another one on as I do like the feel of the shenko front and e3 rear. Looved the shinko tires at all speeds . Especially in the twistys as this tire gripped like a gorilla on steroids. I know it didnt answer the ?? but just a little info on Shinko tourmaster tires from my side of the road

 

David

[Snaggletooth]

Two things I'd be concerned with checking, and one was mentioned.

 

The front forks for sure. Possible that one side is very low on oil. With the stock springs along with low oil and the OEM fork brace it could cause an unstable feel. Went through that on mine.

 

I didn't see you mention the fork neck bearings. You might want to check for looseness in them.

 

Low tire pressure with my Venoms does cause a different feel in the steering and very noticable at higher speeds. I like to run tire pressure at the max for the tire.

 

Mike

[GaryZ]

I agree with verifying the fork oil is equal. However, the fork springs on these babies go bad after maybe 50,000 miles. My VR wanted to 'pogo' on fast sweepers before I changed the springs to Progressives. I run no more than 6lbs of air in my forks with Progressive springs. A stiff front end and soft rear can make the handling spooky.

 

[Marcarl]

The first thing you might want to check is, does it still do it when he has a passenger. If it clears up the problem, you have an issue that has not been decided YET on this board. If the problem still exists with the passenger, then the aforementioned issues could be addressed.

I have an 85,,, ran real well, put on a set of Vemons and it ran better, so good that when they wore out I put on another set,,,, that's when the trouble started,,,,,, changed the rear tire, same thing,,,, went to EII and didn't fix it, now have EIII and still have the problem,,,,, so I go with a passenger, then it's ok.

Wizard765 had the same problem at the same time from the same dealer, and so switched to Metzlers, and hasn't had the problem reoccur.

[skipbasler]

Thanks for all the replies guys. We'll check the forks for oil and springs, though unless I'm totally wrong, most of the time fork problems are more noticeable cornering than straight line riding. I pushed the bike in several corners harder than prudent with brand new tires and really couldn't fault the handling. I don't think Rob will try a high speed ride with his wife aboard, he just is too afraid of the handling. From what y'all have said this seems to be the nature of this beast. Find it hard to believe Yamaha built a tourer with this high speed fault, although when it was made you couldn't legally run this fast. Have a notion there will soon be a good looking, fairly low mileage, mechanically good Venture for sale.

Thanks again folks, ya'll have been great.

Skipper

[Prairiehammer]

It (Interstate speed instability) is most certainly NOT the nature of the beast! None of my three Ventures ever exhibited any instability at any highway speed or beyond. There is a bit of slow weaving at 110 mph with my '83 but nothing but solid straight even at that speed on my '90.

It is decidedly difficult to diagnose handling issues from afar. What you call instability may be another man's "wobble", for instance, and that term usually generates a whole different set of suggestions. But your comment that it feels like riding on a bridge grate is pretty succinct and helpful. I would definitely rexamine the head bearings for "catches" and/or a too tight condition. Please remember that there is undoubtedly nearly thirty year old grease in there. Also, my experience with head bearings on Yamaha models has shown that the assemblers used a sparce amount of grease. It is not inconceivable that the bearings and races are rusty and dry. Florida salt air is known to be corrosive, correct?

Take these preceding replies to your post as places to look for a defect in your bike, not as a blanket condemnation of the bike. Reconsider the suggestions from these Venture experts.

Edited January 30, 2012 by Prairiehammer

[friesman]

You have to keep in mind that there are thousands of bike owners on this site and you asked for ppl to list their issues , and you got a few. I think thats pretty typical of any forum or product to hear of the owners that have the issues while the other 6 plus-thousand happy members dont say anything because they havnt had issues. My 85 is rock solid at any speed up to about 110 mph and even then it is just a mild wandering. It has always been that way. Sure it is top heavy, but a person gets used to that, but I would never get used to an unsafe bike. I would suggest you check out things that are suggested and youll probably find it was something pretty small that was causing your wandering and unsteadiness.

These bikes are by no means inherently high speed dangerous.

 

If it were me I would check for progressive springs, and if you dont have em, get them, its the best under a hundred buck upgrade you can do. Mine was bottoming out on driveway entrances etc because the stock springs were so soft. The pregoressives solved all that and now I run with no air in the front forks and no bottoming out.

 

 

Brian

 

Thanks for all the replies guys. We'll check the forks for oil and springs, though unless I'm totally wrong, most of the time fork problems are more noticeable cornering than straight line riding. I pushed the bike in several corners harder than prudent with brand new tires and really couldn't fault the handling. I don't think Rob will try a high speed ride with his wife aboard, he just is too afraid of the handling. From what y'all have said this seems to be the nature of this beast. Find it hard to believe Yamaha built a tourer with this high speed fault, although when it was made you couldn't legally run this fast. Have a notion there will soon be a good looking, fairly low mileage, mechanically good Venture for sale.

Thanks again folks, ya'll have been great.

Skipper

Edited January 31, 2012 by friesman

[mbrood]

I would pull the trunk and bags and ride it again. It's possible you were getting wind buffeting at speed.

[GaryZ]

Skip,

I will repeat what others have said . . .

The Yamaha Gen I Venture does not have inherent stability issues.

 

I will also say that I do not think the Venture is 'top heavy' compared to my two ZX11s or my son's ZX12R sport bike. It is not 'top heavy' compared to my 1980 KZ1000 that I sold last year after 22 years of ownership. It is not 'top heavy' compared to a Bandit 600 that I fixed up for a friend last summer. The Venture is just heavy, and it gets really, really heavy if you lean it over when standing still.

 

Harleys and air cooled metric cruisers have a naturally low center of gravity.

Are some of you folks comparing cruiser bikes to the VR?

If not, what bikes are you comparing?

[playboy]

I would pull the trunk and bags and ride it again. It's possible you were getting wind buffeting at speed.

 

 

Don't want to Hijack this thread but my 2nd gen got squirrely the other day when the speedo hit 120 with nearly new tires rock solid up to that point and I suspect wind buffeting around the trunk and bags at this speed. Also suspect tire grooves in pavement from trucks.

 

P.s. dont tell the wife I did this I just had to find out what it would do but still dont know because it was still pulling hard. First time speed ever scared me.

[MikesBike]

Could the motor mounts and/or other frame components cause this kind of problem?

[friesman]

Could the motor mounts and/or other frame components cause this kind of problem?

 

 

Interesting thought, you may be onto something; Ive never had a handling issue, but after the metal motor mounts went into my bike, it really stiffened it up, it felt like sports bike in comparison.

 

Brian

[Squidley]

You haven't mentioned what air pressure is being run in the rear shocks. I have owned 6 1st gen Ventures, and have ridden them all up to 100 mph. There is something still not right with your sons. I have run the Shinko's on 1 of my 1st gens and other than the rear wearing fast, about 7K I had zero issues with the tires, matter of fact I have a new set in the garage thats going on to the '86 I currently own.

 

If the front forks are original, replace them, they are long past due and worn out. Progressive springs are probably the most popular and easiest to do. The fork oil, unless you installed it, is a crap shoot to what weight it is and how much is in there. I have 10 wt oil in my front shocks and run the air at about 12 psi as I like a firm feel in the curves. The rear shock I run about 35 to 40 psi solo, I weight 280 lbs and stand 5' 11" so I offer good downward ballast.

 

Also too, it is possible that the rear wheel isn't in it's neutral position if you did the tire work yourself. There is a sequence to reinstalling the rearend on these bikes. Give us a bit more info if you can, we can figure out damn near anything on this forum with enough information....

[Chaharly]

Looks like you've got a good start on tracking down the problem.

 

I'm unfamiliar with the air pressure ratings on the Shenco tires. I run Metzlers and always run 40 in the front and 42-44 in the rear. Increasing the front tire pressure may help.

 

Another couple of things to consider are the front forks and the fork brace. Many, including myself, have gone to a heavier fork brace.

 

Check the fork springs, verify that the amount and weight of the oil in the forks are equal and that the amount of air is equal. Does your bike have an onboard air system? If the forks are linked for the air, are both free and clear?

 

Just a couple of thoughts.

 

Dave

 

 

Is it possible that the frame has cracked on this 84? I know its known on the 83s but it could be possible on any bike right?

[Rocket]

Is it possible that the frame has cracked on this 84? I know its known on the 83s but it could be possible on any bike right?

 

Nope, 83 are the only ones with this issue (aside from abuse / accidents).

[Pegasus1300]

You didn't say how many miles were on the bike,but I'll bet the fork bushings are worn out as well as the fork springs and steering head bearings.Because of the driveshaft the swing arms do not move like chain drive ones do when they are worn.The best way to check is to actually look and regrease.The factory puts very little grease in them to begin with. The rear shock or the bushings in the linkage may also be worn as nobody ever greases them.

 

When new these bikes are very stable and handle very well.They were considered the best handleing touring bikes of their day.Over the years the suspension degrades very slowly and almost un noticed until a new owner takes over. With all you have done you are almost there don't get discouraged now.

[reddevilmedic]

ive had my 83 for about 10 months now. i done most of the upgrades in the tech section, just not front springs yet. that is cetainly next. i also run a avon venom up front with an e3 in the rear. i DID change the way it rides compared to the e2's that were on there previously. around here, the ride changes with the road im on. some much better than others. on some, there is a lot of front end travel, but not on others. i recently rode to the Keys, and it was a fantastic trip. hitting speed of 100 with no issues at all with bags and 80 lbs of gear. i max out the tire pressure on the front, with 15lbs of air in forks. rear is at 46psi with 60 in the shock. im 220 and 6'3. my previous bike was a v65 magna. i love my venture! gets a lot of attention. im learning how to lay into the corners with more confidence as time goes on. its just a familiarity issue and some good maintenance. good luck!

[Prairiehammer]

Check the frame bolts.