20+ KW Home Generator - Anyone Installed One?

[GolfVenture]

I've been thinking about installing a large Home backup Generators one of these years. Probably 20 KW or larger. Anyone have one or have installed one. Like to get myself educated on the pros and cons, also open to suggestions if there might be a better idea.

 

I currently have two propane furnaces (1 for main floor and one for basement apt -rental) and a propane hot water tank all supplied by a 500 gal propane tank. When I upgrade appliances I would consider going to propane ranges and dryers.

 

Need enough power for the following:

 

Main floor home

Basement Apt (Complete Set of appliance)

Hot Tub

Heat Pump(Heat and Air Conditioner)

Detached garage/shop (No Welder just normal electricity needs)

[Eddie]

Get an automatic transfer switch, keep it close to the gas meter. You will need a 2 inch gas line going to that thing to supply enough fuel . We just did a 20K before Xmas for a customer it was expensive. Also the gas meter had to be upgraded to a rotory type to supply enough gas for everything.

[Freebird]

That's what I was thinking Eddie. He says that almost everything in his house uses Propane so I'm assuming that he doesn't have natural gas. I can tell you, as high as Propane is, it is going to cost you a BUNDLE to run that thing. I personally think that you are overreaching. In my opinion, the purpose of a backup generator is to run the most essential items. Most don't come with enough circuits to do everything that you are mentioning. I had a 17KW propane fueled backup generator that I installed for backup power for a project that I was working on in the greenhouse. I quickly realized that I was NOT going to be able to afford to run it for very long. Installation wasn't a big deal.

[Eddie]

ops didnt see the propane part. I don't think they are made to run cheap. Its for comfort.

Edited January 24, 2012 by Eddie

[Eddie]

A 17K is enough to do everything in most houses. Even run the AC/Heat Pump. These automatic transfer switches we us now eliminate the need for the extra inside panel . This switch is installed between your exsisting panel and the generator. When power goes out your whole house is powered. I never liked the pick what to have run thing.

[Mel]

Get an automatic transfer switch, keep it close to the gas meter. You will need a 2 inch gas line going to that thing to supply enough fuel . We just did a 20K before Xmas for a customer it was expensive. Also the gas meter had to be upgraded to a rotory type to supply enough gas for everything.

 

He won't have a gas meter, he said he's on propane.

 

Brian: 20,000 is big, needs lots of fuel. I'm sure you know you can get a generator that runs on propane. Maybe you should upgrade to 1,000 gallon propane tank if/when the generator is installed. The automatic ones start themselves on a regular schedule, run for a brief time, then shut down, staying on stand-by. 1,000 gal. tank actually holds 800 gallons as they fill 'em to 80%. Yep, automatic transfer switch, all wired up is the way to go. If you take your time and shop around you can sometimes find a pretty good price on the generator. The electrical work should be done by a licensed electrician. They have to get into your utility electrical service at the meter.

 

I had a portable generator, had it wired up for manual whole-house connection with 3-way knife switch (utility, off, generator) and the electrical work for that wasn't cheap. House was smaller than yours, did not need as much power as you. That hot tub will draw a lot of current, might want to consider turning it off when on generator power.

 

Hope this helps some.

[Freebird]

Yours must have been different than mine. I had a Generac 17 KW propane unit. It came with the transfer switch and distribution box. I am not a licensed electrical contractor but I do have a lot of electrical experience. Installation was very simple for me and I did not have to get into the meter at all. All connections were between my original distribution panel and the standby panel.

[Condor]

Wow!! 17KW.. 20KW.... I sure am glad I don't live in a place where we loose power for any length of time... My EU2000 Honda is enough to keep the heater running, a couple of lightbulbs burning, and the TV/VCR working for the kids.... Longest we've ever lost power is 12 hrs. And... that time all I had was a 400watt Honda generator and it ran all day on a 1/2 gallon of gas.

I have a friend up in the foothills that when they loose power it can be for days at a time. He has an 10x10 brick power building. Batteries/Solar, LP Genset/ wind. He can last 2 weeks or longer without power and not even notice he's off the grid......

[Freebird]

I bought the 17KW for a specific business reason. I was putting in a aquaculture system to raise yellow perch as a side business. It was essential that tank heaters, filtration, heat and etc. did NOT go down for more than about an hour or thousands of dollars worth of fish would be dead. Once I finally determined that it just wasn't going to work out, I no longer had a use for it. I finally sold it a few months ago. It was actually the propane costs of heating the water, building, running the generator and etc. that caused me to scrap the entire project.

 

Our power has been very reliable and I don't even have a backup generator of any kind now. There has been one time in 12 years that I could have used one. If I ever get another one, it will indeed be a smaller gasoline unit to keep a few lights and a couple of emergency space heaters on.

[Vance]

I have a Generac 17KW with aluminum housing. Since I had it installed August 2010, we have lost power 12 times and transferred to the generator. I have a well and without power there is no water for washing or flushing. And when it is 90 degrees outside, having an air conditioner is most welcome. December last year we had rolling blackouts due to power shortages. It was 26 degrees outside. That is when it is nice to have a backup generator you don't have to go out in the weather to hook-up, gas up, and start. During hurricane Ike, we were without power for 3 days.

Then generator starts automatically every week and runs for 10 minutes. That keeps the oil seals lubricated. Since it runs on propane, you don 't have to worry about carburetors clogging up. When power goes out for a selectable period of time (mine is set for 25 seconds to prevent starting on a momentary loss of power) the generator automatically starts and once up to voltage and frequency, the transfer switch loads the generator. When power is restored, the transfer switch cycles back, unloading the generator. The generator runs for 1 minute to cool down, the shuts down. The transfer back to main power happens so quick, the only way you know power is back is that the generator shuts down. It's great, especially if its freezing outside, or pouring down rain.

[friesman]

Something else to consider when buying a generator, it may not be a deal breaker for you but if youre planning for a long term catastrophic outage....

I was on the planning group for the selection of a new large generator at work and we looked at propane and natural gas but ended up selecting the Cat diesel generator.

Our reasons were that in a catastrophic event you will more likely to be able to get diesel fuel than either nat gas or propane.

I would think the same would apply for the smaller generators but the selection of gasoline might be easier to source than propane or nat gas, depending on your area.

 

Brian

[mgosset1]

Don for what you need, 5kw would be about right....

[Sylvester]

Lots of info here. I live in NC and we only have power outages for ice and high winds. I have a portable 13,500 peak and 8,000 running generator. It does great for my needs and powers two propane heat units and all the necessary things I have like two freezers, a refrigerator freezer, well pump, two TVs and of course the shop (as long as I don't use the welder). Any outager we have had lasts only hours, but I keep plenty of gasolene with Seafoam added for supply.

 

[flb_78]

If you have a tractor with a PTO on it, you could just buy a PTO driven generator head and run it off your tractor for much less than a standard generator.

 

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/category_generators+pto-generators

 

I also agree that 20kw is probably overkill. You could probably call your electric company, have them look at the last 12 months worth of bills and they could recommend what you would need, or maybe talk to a local retailer/installer and get their advice.

 

I would think that a 8kw generator would be more than sufficient for more folks unless you believe you'll need to run every electrical item in the house at once.

 

 

http://www.generatorjoe.net/html/AboutGenerators.html

[wes0778]

I have a 7.5Kw continuous, 10.5 surge gasoline generator that will run my whole house. It does protest when we turn on the 1250Watt microwave.

It will start and run the 10,000BTU window A/C unit. I have not tried to see if it will start out 4 ton central A/C unit, as I have the connection between the generator and the house fused at 30 Amps. I would think your having a heat pump might make it necessary for a little larger unit for you, however.

By design, everything at our house that can BE gas IS gas.

My setup which is far from a "code" installation is manual.

I have to manually cut loose from the commercial power, plug the generator into the outside fuse box and start it. Once the generator is running I then close the switch on the fuse box between the generator and the bus bars in my house power panel.

It burns between 8 and 10 gallons in 24 hours, running continuously. When our power goes out it is generally not out more than 4-5 hours. Except of course when Katrina came through and them we ran it for about 40 hours.

[Eddie]

He won't have a gas meter, he said he's on propane.

 

Brian: 20,000 is big, needs lots of fuel. I'm sure you know you can get a generator that runs on propane. Maybe you should upgrade to 1,000 gallon propane tank if/when the generator is installed. The automatic ones start themselves on a regular schedule, run for a brief time, then shut down, staying on stand-by. 1,000 gal. tank actually holds 800 gallons as they fill 'em to 80%. Yep, automatic transfer switch, all wired up is the way to go. If you take your time and shop around you can sometimes find a pretty good price on the generator. The electrical work should be done by a licensed electrician. They have to get into your utility electrical service at the meter.

 

I had a portable generator, had it wired up for manual whole-house connection with 3-way knife switch (utility, off, generator) and the electrical work for that wasn't cheap. House was smaller than yours, did not need as much power as you. That hot tub will draw a lot of current, might want to consider turning it off when on generator power.

 

Hope this helps some.

 

 

:rotf:You didnt read all the post either. It was early.

[scotty]

20KVA may be on the overkill side.

The power was out for 5 days here a couple of years ago and we got by with a 3 kw gas genset. We did have to be a bit stingy with power like running the deep freeze at night with the well pump off and the micro wave was off limits. I would think 5 kw would work for just household use, 10 would be lots. Personally I like the diesel idea.

[dacheedah]

My electrician said he figured out house at 16k but recommended to go to 20k and use a whole house switch. He cautioned going small could cause damage to some appliances or air units not to mention not good for the generator. I haven't taken the leap though.

[wes0778]

My electrician said he figured out house at 16k but recommended to go to 20k and use a whole house switch. He cautioned going small could cause damage to some appliances or air units not to mention not good for the generator. I haven't taken the leap though.

 

I can imagine that the heat pump thingy runs up the need. Especially if the emergency (resistive) heating elements are needed.

[yamtom]

Hi,

Ive been here ten years , and I thought I had poor service. I used to get outages every year or so, that would last maybe one day or so. They did upgrade our service, the power company, and now most outages, are maybe once a year, and a few hours. Ive only had to have, an eight hundred watt inverter hooked to my truck, and that was enough to do the basics. It wont run an air condish, or fridge, but will run a puter, a tv, and a fan or two and I have a small nat gas plaque heater that can back up the furnace fairly well for a couple of days that doesnt need electricty at all. I think if I tried, my inverter may actually be capable of running the furnace and its fan, but there has been no real need for it. As far as air, I can get along without it, as long as there is a fan and cool shower water still working. I do have a large ice chest that I can put fridge stuff in if really needed, but there has never been a need for it yet. The worst outage I can remember is a four day outage that we had in what I call,,,,, the great ice storm of 76,,,,, that definitely would have been something that would have taxed my miserly system, but I think the furnace could have been run off it, which at the time, would have been the most important. It happend in late Feb, and any fridge item could have been kept on the unheated porch. I guess it all depends on how you are set up for spending the big bux, but I wasnt, and I wouldnt do so even now when I could easily afford it. Personally, I am at the stage where I am trying to downsize the number of moving parts around my place since getting my venture and other bikes keeps me plenty busy with working on stuff.

[GolfVenture]

Thank you for all the constructive replys. I currently have a 4500 watt generator and it in the past has supplied electric for 2 propane furnaces, most all my plugins and light switches and my washing machine. I recently added a new heat pump & an electronic filter and so with that I decided to put in a new propane furnace. Well I found out that my new furnace is intregrated with the heat pump and so the furnace is now supplied by the new 50 amp breaker for the heat pump on the main panel along with the heat pump. About 15 years ago I had installed a sub panel and moved most of the 110/120 breakers into this subpanel including my furnace which would have the ability to be powered by the generator in emergency management mode. Well with this latest Washington winter storm I had no furnace, which was a surprise to me because my furnace is now powered by the main panel. So I was courious about one of these full home generators. After reading all the response, I'm realizing that a 20 kw is an over kill and some other upgrades one that I would need to consider and one is to provide a larger supply pipe and regulator from the propane tank, something that I really do not want to do plus the cost of the total project.

 

I think all I need to do is to maybe upgrade to about a 10 kw generator. I found one that has a 60 amp plug, a 30 amp plug and four 20 amp plugs. In an emergency, and using power management I can supply all the house eletricity needs, just not all at the same time. I can install a 2nd sub panel and move the 50/40/30 amp breakers to it and suppply it with the 60 amp plug and feed the 15/20 amp sub panel with the 30 amp plug. Get 2 transfer switches appropiately sized for each subpanel use.

 

I found a TriPower Generator 10 kw where it has 3 fuel source, gas/propane/natural gas. Each having seperate fuel system and switching from one to another is a snap so they say. I will start another thread inquiring if any one has one of these TriPower generators.

 

Thank you all again. Always can expect straight foward opinions and experiences.